Patterning? I think the gun is broken.

[TN Whitetail Freak]

u

TWF,
Were those shots standing, sitting or from a bench/rest? May have missed it but what sighting "bead" "red dot" "optics". Just wondering?

Frank this was seated in a chair using a shooting stick with open bead sight
Im thinking im wanting to try the longbeards but i have to find where they are sold if i cant find em im gonna settle for the federal turkey thugz which is shown in pic 3....im not actually shooting for 200 pellets in 10" circle i just thought that was what the ideal count was im new to patterning this was my first time patterning thats why i didnt know about the 10" circle after the shot

 

[REN]

seems some are very selective when it comes to "old school" vs "new school" and i laugh every time this topic comes up. I don't care what pattern you want to hunt with just shoot your gun and make sure it is shooting POA/POI and has a decent pattern that will put a bird down at the distances you plan on hunting.

However if you don't want to do so thats fine and if you are of the "a modified choke is all you need" and the "use to kill them all day with bird shot" stuff then why not keep using it? why buy a $1200 shotgun when a $200 one from the pawn shop works just fine. Why buy camo when jeans and a brown shirt works fine? why buy boots or a $100 turkey call when chepo one kills them just as dead? Why buy vests and face masks, why buy a $250 sight to sit on top of the gun when a $50 one works just as well. You do it because a lot of that stuff maximizes your hunting and kill %, so why be selective when it comes to how your gun shoots or the ammo you use. I am not a fan of the lucky pellet idea personally and just because my gun did it once doesn't mean it will or should do it again. To not shoot your gun and see what it atleast is doing is just plain dumb TO ME so you at least know it is shooting straight. As i said in this thread when it started you don't need to have 200 pellets in the paper to kill turkeys, then again you don't need a call or camo either.

I agree that the craze for super tight pattens is a hot topic and seems to be getting more and more the direction stuff is going, I like a to be in the middle and get a good even dense pattern at 40 but I like to leave room for error. I do like shooting and seeing what loads do out of my gun and what chokes/ammo combinations look like. Hey i bought the gun to shoot it so why not?? especially with lead shot, its just not all that expensive in the grand scheme of things. I will never advocate you need to shoot 300 in a 10" to shoot turkeys, but you do need to shoot something to see at what distances you can kill one.

the truth of the matter is hunters these days are shooting further and further and with hunting sites like this we have ways to share info better. While i don't care to shoot one that far and have moved away from trying to reach this magical number killing cardboard I have learned what a good pattern looks like and what it will do to a turkey at 40 and under. IF and I say again IF i were to miss i would prefer to completely miss and not pepper the thing with lead shot for it to die a few days later, in that regard a more uniform and tighter pattern is beneficial.

It will always be a hot topic on here and we will always have both sides of the argument represented so there is no sense in trying to discredit one side or the other as both sides of the argument have pros and cons.



now back to the purpose of this thread, throw away the nitros......pawn the gun and go buy a Super Black Eagle 2, put a FF3 on top of it, order a box of real Nitros and a rhino choke and you will be ready to kill turkeys...HAHAHAH (obviously kidding)

 

[REN]

also to add, i don't think anyone has really said he HAD to get a much more tight pattern or some expensive stuff to go out and kill some turkeys...it seems most have said just try another ammo and junk the Remington stuff.

 

[Setterman]

Ren

I think you're misinterpreting what my points are, I assure you or anyone else I won't hunt with a pattern I don't feel is ethical, period. I just view an ideal pattern as much more evenly spread over a larger area than you and others do.

From what I gather you all want a dinner plate at 40 yards and I want a trash can lid. I will not tolerate a patchy pattern or one that isn't centered. Both will effectively kill birds, period.

The reason I do speak of keeping it simple is to provide comfort to newbies or folks who would rather not buy 10 different chokes and 20 different loads either for financial or personal reasons, and make sure they understand it is not mandatory to shoot an ultra tight pattern at long distances.

Again neither is a bad approach, and both kill effectively.

 

[REN]

Ren

I think you're misinterpreting what my points are, I assure you or anyone else I won't hunt with a pattern I don't feel is ethical, period. I just view an ideal pattern as much more evenly spread over a larger area than you and others do.

From what I gather you all want a dinner plate at 40 yards and I want a trash can lid. I will not tolerate a patchy pattern or one that isn't centered. Both will effectively kill birds, period.

The reason I do speak of keeping it simple is to provide comfort to newbies or folks who would rather not buy 10 different chokes and 20 different loads either for financial or personal reasons, and make sure they understand it is not mandatory to shoot an ultra tight pattern at long distances.

Again neither is a bad approach, and both kill effectively.

Oh i wasnt really pointing at you and to be honest I'm not arguing one way or the other really. Your way obviously works for you as you have the years of using it behind you so the numbers don't lie. Some however don't have that history to back them up on what they are trying to relay which to me can be an issue.

I don't want a dinner plate but i do like it a tad smaller then a trash lid just due to where i hunt. I like to hit them with most of the load if i can to leave no doubt but no question i like to have some wiggle room for flinching or rushing the shot.


Your last paragraph thought is exactly right and was my point as well. You don't HAVE to do any of it unless its just something you like to do and fool around with.

 

[Grizzly Johnson]

The more pellets in the pattern = more room for head movement when time comes to pull the trigger.


To each their own.... I'm done and out......

 

[Setterman]

One thing not being considered and probably should be is that tightness of pattern desired should be dependent on the primary habitat types where a person hunts.

I hunt strictly in the woods therefore I rarely if ever have the opportunity or need to reach beyond 40 yards. If I hunted fields all the time I very well might change my tune or have a different gun for those situations.

I do think in some ways pushing a person who hunts woods primarily towards an ultra tight pattern could cause issues for them. And vice versa for the field hunters.

However, hunter x might want to shoot ultra tight in the woods I guess. S*** I give up....haha

 

[PickettSFHunter]

To the original poster, I bet you could try some Hevi 7's and really see an improvement.
As for the tight pattern stuff, have you all seen the latest Spring Cabelas magazine? Lead Longbeards making references to 60 yards, and Hevi making references to 75 yards. Now that is just crazy. Further and further increasing the odds newbies are going to wound many birds.

 

[TN Whitetail Freak]

To the original poster, I bet you could try some Hevi 7's and really see an improvement.

Will those carry enough energy out to 40-45 yds?

I will not shoot past 45 yds because that in itself is a long shot imo

 

[Uncle Jesse]

Will those carry enough energy out to 40-45 yds?

I will not shoot past 45 yds because that in itself is a long shot imo

Absolutely effective to 45. The small Hevi pellets continue to amaze me. I use 7 Hevi (actually the box says 7.5) in my 20 gauge during the fall.

 

[ruger7mag]

Will those carry enough energy out to 40-45 yds?

I will not shoot past 45 yds because that in itself is a long shot imo

Absolutely effective to 45. The small Hevi pellets continue to amaze me. I use 7 Hevi (actually the box says 7.5) in my 20 gauge during the fall.

I agree, the hevi 7s have plenty of knockdown at 45 yards. I've been shooting them since the first year they came out and have had zero issues with the knockdown. They also pattern REALLY well.

 

[Frank G]

u

TWF,
Were those shots standing, sitting or from a bench/rest? May have missed it but what sighting "bead" "red dot" "optics". Just wondering?

Frank this was seated in a chair using a shooting stick with open bead sight
Im thinking im wanting to try the longbeards but i have to find where they are sold if i cant find em im gonna settle for the federal turkey thugz which is shown in pic 3....im not actually shooting for 200 pellets in 10" circle i just thought that was what the ideal count was im new to patterning this was my first time patterning thats why i didnt know about the 10" circle after the shot

TNWTF,
I hung a large plastic sheet with a X in the middle, sent one to check my "0" with the red dot. Then I taped turkey targets on the sheet and smoked them. They were far enough apart not to take a hit from another shot. I to use the sitting position for the test. The reason I send two shots. It may be
just "me" moving on the target. A good printable turkey target can be found on the Winchester webb. No charge, just print of a bunch ..... bright colors. NSSF has a nice one as well but is two piece and you need to tape them together. Natural head size on both, the NSSF is just taller, more chest area. Check it out all have the target rings in inches. Have at it, let me know how it works out. I'm averaging 17 to 22 pellets at 40, more then adequate to get the job done. I'll tinker with the ML a bit more just for chuckles.
Oh, when we take the bow out only need one (ha) but watching the bolt to the target is like watching a so mo video.

 

[TheLBLman]

I firmly believe the new age rifle like patterns are completely unnecessary and result in more birds missed at close range than ever before.

Totally agree.

Perhaps a hunter should set himself up for his best odds at the ranges he expects to be shooting most his birds?

And as has been mentioned, in many of the most ideal set-ups, you are very unlikely to even see the bird over 40 yards, while most of your shots present with a longbeard's head rising over the horizon, at the great distance of 30 yards (or less).

Seriously, the craze for rifle-like patterns is mostly a marketing scheme to sell after-market chokes, while also creating a need for rifle-like sights/optics. Ironically, the real gain in effective range is often only 5 to 10 yards at the expense of more misses on those "easy" shots.

IMO, if you opt for rifle-like patterns, a good optical sight becomes a necessity.

 

[Frank G]

I firmly believe the new age rifle like patterns are completely unnecessary and result in more birds missed at close range than ever before.

Totally agree.

Perhaps a hunter should set himself up for his best odds at the ranges he expects to be shooting most his birds?

And as has been mentioned, in many of the most ideal set-ups, you are very unlikely to even see the bird over 40 yards, while most of your shots present with a longbeard's head rising over the horizon, at the great distance of 30 yards (or less).

Seriously, the craze for rifle-like patterns is mostly a marketing scheme to sell after-market chokes, while also creating a need for rifle-like sights/optics. Ironically, the real gain in effective range is often only 5 to 10 yards at the expense of more misses on those "easy" shots.

IMO, if you opt for rifle-like patterns, a good optical sight becomes a necessity.

Correct again Wes,
I hunt the woods for the most part, 30 yards or less. The patterns at 30 are devastating. I'm not sure if I could see one at 40 (ha) but if one struts out into a clear spot, I'll know the ML will do it. Me on the other hand????

 

[TNhunter]

Lots of pellets in 10" at 40 yards means two things - a heavier than lead shot with #7 pellets. That being said - at 20 yards and in the shot column is VERY VERY SUPER TIGHT. Close in shots can become like shooting a turkey with a 22 rifle - resulting in a mind blowing miss. How do I know - missed one two years ago from less than 15 yards.

You don't needs lots of pellets at 40 yds to whack a turkey. You need a good clean pattern without holes in it. I've killed lots of turkeys out to 50 yds with #5 Winchester high velocity 3" shells.

Check out the Federal Turkey Thug shells from Walmart. There was all kinds of buzz about their good patterns last year. I bought 6-7 boxes of them because they compete with the magnum blends I've been spending big $$ on.

Lastly - looks like your gun isn't hitting point of aim. Get some type of aftermarket sight and correct your point of aim.