I have no idea how to set up a poll, but if someone does I would like to see what the folks on here saw this year compared to the last 5 years or so. TWRA says things are all roses, but what do the hunters say? For me I have roughly 25% of the number of turkeys from 3 years ago. 2017 was a little down from previous years, but 2018 and 2019 were dismal beyond belief.
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Poll...populations where you hunt
- Thread starter poorhunter
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woodsman04
Well-Known Member
What I've seen since 2013 or 2014 until now has been somewhat steady. The decline happened in southern Wayne, Lawrence, and Giles county from 2007-2008. There were no turkeys after 2008. 2013 or 14 was when it seemed they came back some but not like it was from about 96-06.
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JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
We both have farms in relatively close proximity and we've seen the same as you. I believe I've killed every year the last 5 years for the exception of this year (1-3 birds a year). This year, I had our 640 acres to myself for 3 morning hunts and didn't hear a gobble....saw 1 hen total. That's 1 square mile I was covering - looking / listening for birds. Think about that. No pics on 5 cameras for the exception of a few. Disgusting season for myself. Luckily for me and my interests, turkeys fall far behind deer and elk
PickettSFHunter
Well-Known Member
Down a minimum of 50% in the areas I hunt in Fentress.
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fairchaser
Well-Known Member
Better than last year but not as good as two years ago. Ames plantation.
bowhunterfanatic
Well-Known Member
Seemed to be about the same in McNairy County where I hunt. I saw the fewest number of Jakes I've ever seen though so without a good hatch this year we are probably about to be in a world of hurt.
Wrangler95
Well-Known Member
Turkey numbers down in Clay county,it used to be the leading county for turkey harvest each year for all counties around that borders Clay!!The last two years it is the worst county for turkey harvest among all counties that border Clay!!Two years in a row that I havent killed a turkey on my farm!
Not sure how to quantify it (%, etc), but the areas in middle TN that I frequented were down a good bit from 2018, and down from the previous 5 year average. This is based on my observations while riding, looking and glassing, listening at daylight, birds worked and just overall turkeys (hens, etc) seen/encountered while scouting/hunting.
In Stewart Co, I have about a third of the birds that were on the property four years ago.
Overall in Rutherford and Wilson county, in the areas I hunt populations are down. How much I can only guess. Maybe 40-50% less male birds. Hens seem to be ok, and some are getting bred, but male #'s are down.
I have a place in N. Giles. Big farm, but not many turkeys. The land manager/farmer said, it used to be covered up, but not anymore. I've seen one tom there during deer season and a handful of hens.
I have a place in N. Giles. Big farm, but not many turkeys. The land manager/farmer said, it used to be covered up, but not anymore. I've seen one tom there during deer season and a handful of hens.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Knowing where you do the majority of your Stewart Co turkey hunting,scn":1ocps22p said:
and with my spending more year-round time there,
much of it in the same areas you're doing your turkey hunting,
I'm going to have respectfully disagree that our turkey population is down by 2/3 compared to 4 years ago.
I do agree our turkey population is down, particularly the 3-yr-old & older Tom's.
However, there seem to be some very localized pockets in Stewart Co. where the population may not be down at all from either 4 years ago or a decade ago.
It's just ironic that some areas have better turkey habitat today than a couple decades ago, yet have fewer turkeys.
I've spoken with several other turkey hunters who were also hunting many the same areas (as SCN)
and to the person, 100% believe the turkey population is significantly down.
But, is it really down by over 50%,
or is that just our false perception based on some seasonal (and mostly early season) turkey hunting?
Here's my thoughts on the turkeys in the Stewart Co areas we both hunt (plus a few more):
1) For whatever reasons, the Toms were less vocal this spring that most years.
My theories include mainly two reasons: Fewer 2-yr-old (and older) Toms,
and the "evolution" of 2-yr-old (& older) Toms to both gobble less and strut less.
As to that "evolution" it has mainly to do with predation, those predators include human hunters.
The more vocal birds tend to get killed at a higher rate,
and surviving birds appear to be modifying their behavior in realizing this.
This "evolution" also seems to include an adaptation of turkeys spending more time in heavier cover rather than the more open areas we have traditionally focused our spring turkey hunting.
When I speak of turkey's "evolving" behavior, I'm speaking in terms of (both human & non-human) predators' behaviors also evolving. This may be as much a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" deal as either's evolution being in reaction to the others'.
Examples of predation evolution include (modern) hunters (at least here in TN over the past couple decades) "evolving" to the use of much longer-range weapons, along with tactics requiring much less human hunting skills, to effectively kill more turkeys. At the same time, we're seeing bobcats & coyotes doing more daytime hunting specifically for turkeys (which have been in the past less targeted by these mostly nocturnal predators). Then there is a variety of raptors that appear to have become more focused on specifically hunting turkeys. This includes owls doing more daytime hunting, and even bald eagles evolving to more specifically target adult turkeys.
P.S. An old strutting Tom in the middle of a 2-acre food plot can be an easy meal to a bald eagle.
2) Wintering flocks were a week or two later than most years in dispersing.
This greatly effected the 1st week or two of our spring turkey season.
It was either "feast" or "famine" depending on where you could hunt,
and/or were willing to hunt.
There were in fact some very large areas (hundreds of acres in a block) appearing to be totally void of any adult male birds).
That did change as those wintering flocks broke up and spread more uniformly around the landscape.
3) "Our" Stewart Co. turkey population is overall down, again, just my opinion,
about 25%, from say 4 years ago, but maybe much more compared to a couple decades ago.
4) "Our" Stewart Co. adult male bird population may in fact be down over 50%, from just 4 years ago.
But I really doubt if it's much more than 1/3.
Key takeaway it is down more than the hen population.
5) I simply think we're killing a higher percentage of the adult male birds each year,
mainly by the season beginning too early, and the bag limit of 4 being too many.
This is causing much harm, trending very wrongly, to the primary hunting "resource" of adult male birds,
particularly to those 3-yr-old or older ones.
By contrast, non-human predators are less discriminatory,
perhaps focusing more on hens and poults than adult males.
Then again, that portion of the population does not appear to be as "reduced" as the "longbeard" portion,
most of which may be getting killed by human hunters within the season's 1st 10 days, before breeding is half-finished.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I do agree with have fewer turkeys,
and TWRA has to date responded poorly in addressing our concerns about dwindling turkey populations.
The hunter "harvest" continues to look good on paper, that continues to be about all the turkey biologist considers, never mind everyone else is questioning the accuracy of those numbers, especially when so many inaccuracies are obvious.
All that said, similar concerns exist at LBL, despite more proactive turkey management,
including a later opening, fewer days of turkey hunting, and now including a 2-bird limit that COUNTS against your STATEWIDE bag limit.
In times past, any turkeys killed at LBL were considered "bonus" birds which did NOT count against your statewide bag.
Yet today, there are still probably fewer turkeys at LBL than 4 years ago, still fewer than 20 years ago.
Go figure.
and TWRA has to date responded poorly in addressing our concerns about dwindling turkey populations.
The hunter "harvest" continues to look good on paper, that continues to be about all the turkey biologist considers, never mind everyone else is questioning the accuracy of those numbers, especially when so many inaccuracies are obvious.
All that said, similar concerns exist at LBL, despite more proactive turkey management,
including a later opening, fewer days of turkey hunting, and now including a 2-bird limit that COUNTS against your STATEWIDE bag limit.
In times past, any turkeys killed at LBL were considered "bonus" birds which did NOT count against your statewide bag.
Yet today, there are still probably fewer turkeys at LBL than 4 years ago, still fewer than 20 years ago.
Go figure.
th88":3l3nyxo0 said:
I've been there all of 2 times, to deer hunt, but from what i h ave read on here and other places, Yes. Apparently being it is federally run, they cannot log anything, without whiny special interest groups putting in an injunction. Hence the hardwoods there are fully mature and there are not many places with any ground cover.
Due to this, from what i have read, deer and turkey populations are down from 2 decades ago.
TheLBLman":2wasgjnm said:
Yeah i agree. New chokes, shells, etc. have made it easy to pop one at 60+ yds. This is a big part of the problem IMO.
Boll Weevil
Well-Known Member
I may be the anomaly but have oodles of turkeys to hunt again this spring. Also appears to have been another fantastic hatch as in the last few days working at the farm saw what I believe to have been 5 separate hens and their little ones. The biggest were flying pretty goo but did see some little ones about the size of a baseball.
Bone Collector":1rm45ahx said:
Dang, you didn't bite. :lol:
The majority of turkey hunters would have said 'No' as they are blind to the reality of the habitat declining. Kudos to you sir. So many of the federally owned public land areas (i.e. National Forests) have had a substantial decline in habitat quality over the past couple decades. These lands simply can't sustain the turkey numbers they once did. Unfortunately the majority of turkey hunters are naive to this and want to place all the blame elsewhere.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Of course it has.th88":2663t0v1 said:
Habitat is continuously changing,
and at issue is how we're responding to those changes.
Not sure if you've answered your own question specifically regarding LBL,
or regarding most other federal lands?
Although I'm generally in agreement with your above statements,th88":2663t0v1 said:
will take issue regarding LBL,
as, imo, from an OVERALL perspective,
many of LBL's losses in turkey habitat (from maturing timber) have been off-set with different habitat improvements over the past decade or so.
As with most federal lands, LBL has had its hands largely tied in terms of timber cutting, and most of the LBL forests are TOO mature to be ideal for either deer or turkey. Still may have been more timber-cutting over the past few years than many realize.
So, if you can't cut mature timber as was once done,
what can be done INSTEAD to improve habitat for turkey?
A big part of LBL's answer to this question has been Prescribed Fire.
LBL has been averaging large-scale prescribed fires on about 10,000 acres annually, I believe since the Year 2004.
This can yield habitat improvement somewhat equivalent to the select cutting of mature timber.
In fact, it can sometimes be even more beneficial than timber cutting!
Entire large-acreage blocks are being "burned", including mature timber and fields.
And, this "prescribed burning" is occurring on a rotational basis more often than the select-cutting of timber was done in times past.
But prescribed fire has been but one significant "tool" for making habitat improvements for turkey.
Some large areas have been, and are being, converted from mature hardwoods back to the NATIVE oak savannah & native grasslands.
THIS has allowed for some extensive timber-cutting, which has been more like clear-cutting than select-cutting.
Of note, many of the "tree-hugging" groups blocking any tree-cutting, they have had less issue with RESTORATION of NATIVE habitat.
Or, it may be they were less able to block the tree-cutting required for this restoration.
But the bottom line is this:
Doubt you'll find a single square mile of land within LBL that doesn't have abundant quality nesting habitat, even though the predominant landscape remains large woodlands. And, with the prescribed fire and increased grasslands, there may in fact be an increase in year-round food sources for turkeys.
But for whatever reasons, there are fewer turkeys at LBL than in times past.
My personal opinion is this has more to do with collective other factors than with any loss (or change) in habitat.
Part of my concern is we're "missing something" of great significance, among those factors,
just like we did with Bobwhite quail.
Are the turkey going to largely disappear just like the quail?
I really don't think so, as turkey populations just aren't as fragile as quail.
But at the same time, a turkey is very much just a larger version of Bobwhite quail.
We need to consider everything.
The decline in turkey populations is not just about habitat.
In fact, over most of Stewart County (outside of LBL)
the turkey habitat appears greatly improved compared to 20 years ago.
But the turkey population does not reflect that,
and the hunter "harvest" is very misleading.
TheLBLman":7eprlol4 said:
Prescribed fire in overmature non-managed forest does not nearly equal the benefits of select timber harvest. The benefit of timber harvest is reducing canopy and getting daylight to the ground so more plants can grow providing more food and cover. Without the daylight, you are not going to get near the response from plants after a fire. Run the fire through the timber all you want, and yes, you will get some minor benefits, but nothing to the effect a timber harvest would give you.
Now open up that canopy and put some fire to it. We in business!
Glad to hear they are making progressing on timber-cutting. I've saw substantial progress in some National Forest districts as well.
SKFOOTER
Well-Known Member
I hunted Hardeman, Tipton and Lauderdale counties the last 2 years as well as LBL and Ft Campbell. Turkey populations are definitely on the decline in all of these locales. One major problem on LBL is the increasing hog population.
