Poll...populations where you hunt

[megalomaniac]

Populations are wildly variable on locales. Some places still have very few birds that used to have hundreds back in the late 90s. My places that have been better since 2010 still have birds, but significantly fewer females. Males were up about 10 to 15% over past 2 years.

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[TLRanger]

Down about 75% from ten years ago.
Seemed to be making a very slow come back this last year. Still not enough population for me to shoot one.
Located in South East Carroll Co on the Benton county line.

 

[TheLBLman]

Down about 75% from ten years ago.

Mr. TLRanger Man, I know you have done quite a bit of turkey hunting at LBL over the years.
What are your thoughts regarding the turkey situation at LBL?

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . .
Entire large-acreage blocks are being "burned", including mature timber and fields.
. . . . .
And, this "prescribed burning" is occurring on a rotational basis more often than the select-cutting of timber was done in times past.
. . . . .
Some large areas have been, and are being, converted from mature hardwoods back to the NATIVE oak savannah & native grasslands.
THIS has allowed for some extensive timber-cutting, which has been more like clear-cutting than select-cutting.

Prescribed fire in overmature non-managed forest does not nearly equal the benefits of select timber harvest. The benefit of timber harvest is reducing canopy and getting daylight to the ground so more plants can grow providing more food and cover. Without the daylight, you are not going to get near the response from plants after a fire. Run the fire through the timber all you want, and yes, you will get some minor benefits, but nothing to the effect a timber harvest would give you.

Pretty much agree with your above statements (blue ink),
but trying to point out that some mature forests have been converted to grassland prairie,
and the prescribed fire has not been limited to just the big woods.

Regarding running the fire through the timber, I believe the benefits are well beyond just "minor".

 

[TLRanger]

Down about 75% from ten years ago.

Mr. TLRanger Man, I know you have done quite a bit of turkey hunting at LBL over the years.
What are your thoughts regarding the turkey situation at LBL?

I think the population at LBL is down a little.....Hunted there on two occasions this year, 1st quota and three days on the non quota. Hunted in
Area 12 on the quota and heard very little gobbling (The oaks and grassland area) but heard several shots and only saw one silent gobbler.

Hunted Areas 15 and 16 on the nq hunt. Saw a total of three gobblers but no reasonable shots.

I don't think the population is near what it was several years ago but it isn't in total ruin. Should be a good hatch this year since there has been
good weather for nesting without any serious flooding. I did see several hens on the open hunt.

Really would like to see it like it was 20 years ago!

 

[TheLBLman]

Thanks, TL.

Really would like to see it like it was 20 years ago!

Me, too.

Why do you think the LBL population is so much lower than 20 years ago?

P.S. We KNOW it's absolutely nothing to do with chicken houses,
but maybe know little beyond that.

 

[SKFOOTER]

I really think the increasing hog population on LBL is wreaking havoc on nesting hens.

 

[TLRanger]

The feral hogs could be part of the problem there.....I saw hog sign in two new places this spring, Wildcat Hollow and in area 16 near Panther Creek.
They are spreading really fast there. Their control methods are not working.

I think the population is down mostly because of flooding and general bad weather for the last three or four springs. It is certainly not because
of too many being killed by hunters. Hunting pressure has dropped by at least 50% over the last five years.

I have no clue why there are fewer birds there compared to earlier years.

I checked some of my old papers (1983) and saw that there were over 200 killed in TN that year. Wish I had started saving all the info when I
began hunting there in the seventies.

 

[TheLBLman]

Thanks again, TL.

The feral hogs could be part of the problem there.....

The feral pigs are a recent thing.
I do not think they are yet (hopefully never) a big factor in the LBL turkey decline.

I think the population is down mostly because of flooding and general bad weather for the last three or four springs. It is certainly not because
of too many being killed by hunters.

Again, just my opinion, and many are in disagreement.
At LBL, I do not think flooding has had much to do with the issue, but do agree the weather has not been ideal (for nesting, early poult survival) in most of the past few years.

Hunting pressure has dropped by at least 50% over the last five years.

Not sure about the exact amount, but yes, hunting pressure has decreased at LBL.
However, part of this was "purposeful" in an effort to help restore the turkey populations to higher levels.

Hunting pressure is not just a function of turkey populations,
although when there are more turkeys, we usually do see more turkey hunting,
and a higher turkey harvest.

More specifically, what may have reduced recent turkey hunting at LBL
has been the elimination of "bonus" birds, as when birds did not count against the statewide limit,
there was a much larger number of accomplished, avid turkey hunters coming to LBL for this "bonus".
Today, many of these avid turkey hunters are simply limiting out their statewide limits closer to their homes.

In fact, simply killing turkeys has become so relatively easy, that many avid killers limit out during the TN statewide season's first 10 days (1st two weekends).
Please note I'm making a distinction between traditional turkey hunting and simply going out to kill a turkey.
Yet, even with LBL's delayed turkey season opening, even with the elimination of "bonus" birds,
the LBL turkey population seems a fraction what it once was.

I have no clue why there are fewer birds there compared to earlier years.

Sadly, "clues" seem to be all any of us have.

WHAT are we missing?
Are TN turkey populations suffering a similar fate as Bobwhite quail for similar reasons?

 

[TLRanger]

Wes, if I remember correctly, the only bonus bird was a quota hunt bird. The non-quota birds counted toward the statewide limit.

I certainly agree with you about the population being far less than it was even 10 years ago. I still see several hens and a few gobblers
each year but they certainly do not gobble as much. I'm not a biologist (arm chair or keyboard) and I don't envy their job trying to
figure out what is wrong.

The bobwhite problem is still an unknown element. Most think it is because of modern farming practice but that isn't a problem at LBL
unless Roundup ready is the villian :?:

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . . the only bonus bird was a quota hunt bird.
The non-quota birds counted toward the statewide limit.

Correct, at least over the past several years before the quota hunt was also made NON-bonus and counts toward the statewide limit.

But, the quota hunt was the 1st hunt, and being "bonus", it attracted relatively more highly skilled hunters willing to pay the $25 permit fee (plus $5 app fee), when it was a "bonus" bird hunt. I do believe this has significantly decreased the influx of the most avid & highly-skilled turkey hunters to LBL (mainly referring to those hunters who typically kill multiple turkeys annually, and have multiple places to turkey hunt).

Also, at about the same time, the "bonus" buck of the quota deer hunt was also eliminated,
which (to the highly skilled avid hunter) devalued the "value" of that $25 annual use permit and the $5 application fees.
Avid hunters were getting both a "bonus" buck and a "bonus" turkey.
No more.

On the other hand, making the quota hunts NON-bonus has likely benefited the majority of hunters.

I certainly agree with you about the population being far less than it was even 10 years ago. I still see several hens and a few gobblers
each year but they certainly do not gobble as much.

IMO, the LESS gobbling is a fairly recent adaptation.
I believe it's related to increased predation,
including human hunters who at the very least can greatly "disturb" a gobbling bird every time he's vocal.

On the other hand, our hearing a lot more gobbling in times past may have been as much due to increased competition from simply having more gobblers, even if the gobbling rate per bird may have been essentially the same as it is today. Just saying, if there were twice as many longbeards, there should have been twice as much gobbling, but due to more competition, perhaps there was 3 times as much.

The bobwhite problem is still an unknown element. Most think it is because of modern farming practice but that isn't a problem at LBL
unless Roundup ready is the villian :?:

There is zero doubt that "Roundup" and other farming chemicals have been a factor in both the "statewide" decline of quail and the decline of turkey.
Since there has always been relatively less "farming" at LBL compared to "statewide", anything regarding farm chemicals and farming practices have been less a factor in these declines at LBL.

 

[cowhunter71]

Turkeys doing just fine here in these SE TN mountains. Lots of hens with up and comers here around the house. Made a run across the mountain with a pup two days ago and saw 4 different hens with poults ranging from quail size to chicken size. First time I have been up there since May 12th. Season is set just right here, and this is coming from a die hard Turkey Hunter, who for the first time since he has lived here, did not pull the trigger in TN this year.

 

[Andy S.]

Turkeys doing just fine here in these SE TN mountains......
.......this is coming from a die hard Turkey Hunter,
.......did not pull the trigger in TN this year.

Thinking logically, and without knowing the details, these three sentences don't align. What happened this year, or what was different?

 

[cowhunter71]

Turkeys doing just fine here in these SE TN mountains......
.......this is coming from a die hard Turkey Hunter,
.......did not pull the trigger in TN this year.

Thinking logically, and without knowing the details, these three sentences don't align. What happened this year, or what was different?

Hunting by a strict personal "code" can be a fluffy kitten some years Andy. Chose to hunt 3 separate Gobblers this year, against my better judgement Although I will hunt several Gobblers multiple times each season, very rarely do I allow myself to get hung up on "season wreckers". I did this year and it cost me. I don't mind to much though. I had several chances at each of them, right up until the last day. Let's just say they were 3 of the "luckiest" Longbeards in South Cherokee this year. Turkeys gobbled good all season, right up until the last day. TWRA, in conjunction with the Forest Service, decided to conduct their "Daylighting" management plan during turkey season this year. Tied up some of my best spots throughout the season with timber cutting and hauling. Still can't complain though. All in all, it was a good season, with "several" Gobblers left alive to carry over. Patiently waiting on Fall shotgun season. Got Mr. Billy building me a 6.5 osage with a Jake mouthpiece I sent 'em. Hope to break it in come October on a ridgerunning North Cherokee Longbeard

 

[Andy S.]

Makes sense. I'll be anxious to hear your opinion of the Buice with the jake mouthpiece.

 

[volsrock]

easy answer !! population sucks in south wayne co!! thanks to the chicken houses and the manure