bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
Not when you exploit the resource that belongs to all residents for financial gain.
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bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
I feel better already. Don't worry the huge increase in harvest will be good.
simpzenith
Member
Thanks. As it clearly states in this email, TWRA did not pay THP, the license vendor did. I believe most of the confusion comes from people assuming that the "vendor" is part of TWRA.
But it doesn't "belong" to residents or non residents for that matter.
Simply put we have a resource that for some reason is disappearing in certain areas of the state. I'd take a gander and say it's multiple reasons from predators, nest raiders, lack of suitable habitat in some areas, bad weather, early season openers and yes some non resident hunters but I would say the non resident side effect is probably the least of the problem cause we all can only hunt for a short period of time. Now loss of habitat, predators, nest raiders and weather doesn't stop killing hens, poults, or dominate field toms after the season ends or in the middle of summer or through out the fall or winter. I would like to see if anything a limited NR quota, later opener, and 1 bird for NR turkey hunters. Focus more on establishing turkeys in certain areas and see WHY they are disappearing outside of season. If Twra can drop that kind of coin on Taj Mahal duck blinds that are for hunting MIGRATORY birds then why can't they drop more coin for birds that STAY in the state of Tennessee.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Are you saying our wild turkeys belong to the TWRA or to the government?
I've always understood Tennessee's free-roaming wildlife are a "public" resource,
for which TWRA has been empowered to first & foremost "do no harm" in "managing" for the People of the State of Tennessee.
Do not the People collectively "own" the wildlife much like the people collectively "own" our "public" anything?
Many the non-resident turkey hunters I know can limit out in a VERY SHORT "period of time", typically like the 1st 9 days (or less) of "our" season.
But I do agree, in that the problem is more our season opening at least a week too early, more than it's the non-resident hunters. It just all adds up, with each negative factor somewhat synergizing the negative effects of others.
Open the season a week later, then there will be fewer non-resident hunters, while the greater benefit remains increasing nesting success, while reducing the effectiveness of illegal baiting by mostly resident hunters (simply by opening our season a week later).
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bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
About the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency
The Mission of the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency is to preserve, conserve, manage, protect, and enhance the fish and wildlife of the state and their habitats for the use, benefit, and enjoyment of the citizens of Tennessee and its visitors.
www.tn.gov
Does not saw financial gain as their mission. People of TN is how REN wants me to word residents.
About the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency
The Mission of the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency is to preserve, conserve, manage, protect, and enhance the fish and wildlife of the state and their habitats for the use, benefit, and enjoyment of the citizens of Tennessee and its visitors.
Does not saw financial gain as their mission. People of TN is how REN wants me to word residents.
What I'm saying is the term "own". No one including the TWRA owns them. Yes they are In Charge of managing them but that's like saying I own the birds in my yard
That I agree with. I wish it was a week later.
The confusion comes as to why a hard card vendor would want to pay THP 10k to promote TN public land to residents and nonresidents for turkey hunting? So Brandt corporation was just sitting around one day and said " let's give 10k to THP to promote turkey hunting". TWRA had nothing to do with it? So the vendor struck out on their own with a plan to promote license sales and turkey hunting? I am confused! Lol ,
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Am I understanding this correctly then?
The contractor makes more money the more licenses are sold in Tennessee. So the contractor pays THP to tell all their fanboys to come. The fanboys buy licenses and the contractor makes money, hopefully enough to cover the check to THP and then some.
Is that it?
The contractor makes more money the more licenses are sold in Tennessee. So the contractor pays THP to tell all their fanboys to come. The fanboys buy licenses and the contractor makes money, hopefully enough to cover the check to THP and then some.
Is that it?
Sorta. They have to get approval from the agency to do it but yes. They make more and the TWRA makes more.
Ideally that more is put back into the resource, however that may or may not be happening IDK.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
If you think opening the season a week later wouldn't make much difference, here's some things to help show that difference:
1) Take a picture of any south-facing wood-line (or fence-row, or simply a field).
Do it again a week from today.
2) Walk thru some blackberry bushes and/or green-briar patches today.
Do it again a week from today.
3) Note how many insects you see today.
Note the increase a week from today (in the same places).
Now, here's how this only one week later season opening enhances nesting success and bird survival from both human & non-human hunters:
A) Less obvious, but old Toms have one more week to breed hens before their world is greatly disturbed, including many of these old Toms being killed BEFORE they breed all the hens. With the season opening too early, many hens may not get bred soon enough.
B) When we human hunters suddenly appear all over the turkey's feeding, breeding, roosting, and nesting areas in large numbers, we disrupt & displace those turkey's activities, often causing them to run or fly from one area to another.
With less "cover" due to spring green-up just beginning, these birds are more easily seen & more easily caught by a variety of non-human predators. As more weeds, briars, and other cover quickly grow during the 1st few days of April, this happens to a lesser degree with each passing day. Want to emphasize that disrupting & displacing reduces daily breeding & daily food consumption (adversely effecting bird health & breeding success). It also causes the birds to burn more calories while they are consuming fewer due to the disruption.
The more too many hunters suddenly appearing on too small an acreage (like nearly all your public WMAs in TN), the more detrimental the effect of this disruption & displacement.
C) Right before and in the early stages of spring green-up, turkeys typically have a lot less food sources. Insects are just starting to come out a bit from winter, and a lot of things turkeys love to eat are just starting to grow fast. Because of this "seasonal" low point in food resources, wild turkeys are particularly vulnerable to being "baited" with any type feed grain (such as corn or wheat). Yet a week or two later, illegal baiters can't have such easy success, since the birds have such a much greater abundance of food sources.
As an aside from all the above, opening our season a week later reduces the influx of non-resident hunters coming to TN because of how much earlier our season opens than theirs. If our season opened only a week later, many non-residents would not be coming here during the 1st week of our season. The main reason most come here is because our season opens earlier than theirs.
Yes, everything effects everything.
Also, just because many these particular non-residents might not show up here if our turkey season opened a week later, does not mean all of them wouldn't be buying a TN non-resident license. Many still would, but their TN turkey hunting would just begin at least a week later, when less damaging to the resource. Keep in mind TN's turkey season also remains open later than many states from where these non-resident come. Last but not least, many these same non-residents are buying their non-resident licenses in TN as much or more for fishing and deer hunting as they are for turkey hunting. Their purchases do no end just because we might open our turkey season a week later.
1) Take a picture of any south-facing wood-line (or fence-row, or simply a field).
Do it again a week from today.
2) Walk thru some blackberry bushes and/or green-briar patches today.
Do it again a week from today.
3) Note how many insects you see today.
Note the increase a week from today (in the same places).
Now, here's how this only one week later season opening enhances nesting success and bird survival from both human & non-human hunters:
A) Less obvious, but old Toms have one more week to breed hens before their world is greatly disturbed, including many of these old Toms being killed BEFORE they breed all the hens. With the season opening too early, many hens may not get bred soon enough.
B) When we human hunters suddenly appear all over the turkey's feeding, breeding, roosting, and nesting areas in large numbers, we disrupt & displace those turkey's activities, often causing them to run or fly from one area to another.
With less "cover" due to spring green-up just beginning, these birds are more easily seen & more easily caught by a variety of non-human predators. As more weeds, briars, and other cover quickly grow during the 1st few days of April, this happens to a lesser degree with each passing day. Want to emphasize that disrupting & displacing reduces daily breeding & daily food consumption (adversely effecting bird health & breeding success). It also causes the birds to burn more calories while they are consuming fewer due to the disruption.
The more too many hunters suddenly appearing on too small an acreage (like nearly all your public WMAs in TN), the more detrimental the effect of this disruption & displacement.
C) Right before and in the early stages of spring green-up, turkeys typically have a lot less food sources. Insects are just starting to come out a bit from winter, and a lot of things turkeys love to eat are just starting to grow fast. Because of this "seasonal" low point in food resources, wild turkeys are particularly vulnerable to being "baited" with any type feed grain (such as corn or wheat). Yet a week or two later, illegal baiters can't have such easy success, since the birds have such a much greater abundance of food sources.
As an aside from all the above, opening our season a week later reduces the influx of non-resident hunters coming to TN because of how much earlier our season opens than theirs. If our season opened only a week later, many non-residents would not be coming here during the 1st week of our season. The main reason most come here is because our season opens earlier than theirs.
Yes, everything effects everything.
Also, just because many these particular non-residents might not show up here if our turkey season opened a week later, does not mean all of them wouldn't be buying a TN non-resident license. Many still would, but their TN turkey hunting would just begin at least a week later, when less damaging to the resource. Keep in mind TN's turkey season also remains open later than many states from where these non-resident come. Last but not least, many these same non-residents are buying their non-resident licenses in TN as much or more for fishing and deer hunting as they are for turkey hunting. Their purchases do no end just because we might open our turkey season a week later.
bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
No, TWRA got the vendor to pay to promote hunting, by saying they could make a little more coin, that way they (TWRA) can say "we didn't use conservation dollars but look, we now have more NR/R conservation dollars".
In my past life I worked a a couple land grant universities, I know how this mess works when public dollars are at stake.
Amazing. Simply amazing.
Hahah ok chief. I know what you meant and you know what I meant so we can move along. You have your opinion and I have mine
Rageman
Active Member
Just out of curiosity simpzenith are you YouTuber Shane Simpson just curious brotha
It's just my opinion (which don't mean much) but I think people are putting way to much emphasis on a single YouTube group causing such an issue state wide. ALL states use influencers these days to market, and all states market to residents and Non residents to increase license sales.
I work in that industry with multiple states and see the behind the scenes more then some especially from a marketing stand point (I'm not in marketing but am a part of those meetings)
Did THP increase NR hunters? Probably but to what extent is it from them or the fact that TN season opens at a perfect point for people to come here at a great time before their season opens or a few weeks after their season opens? Prob a combination of that plus Covid impact.
And again increase license sales is suppose to HELP residents, if the TWRA is wasting that money then that's a different story.
I work in that industry with multiple states and see the behind the scenes more then some especially from a marketing stand point (I'm not in marketing but am a part of those meetings)
Did THP increase NR hunters? Probably but to what extent is it from them or the fact that TN season opens at a perfect point for people to come here at a great time before their season opens or a few weeks after their season opens? Prob a combination of that plus Covid impact.
And again increase license sales is suppose to HELP residents, if the TWRA is wasting that money then that's a different story.
simpzenith
Member
Yes sir.
