Question about bachelor groups and fall range

[lol]

I'm new to having private property so I was never as much concerned with this issue. During the summer I had a bachelor group of 4 bucks which split up two or three months ago, leaving one buck on my property since then. This week two of the three that parted have started to show back up. Is this normal prior to rut and is there any reason to believe that these deer will stick around and continue to be seen as the rut approaches and begins?

 

[quackaholic]

As the actual breeding phase part of the rut, they will come and go at random.

 

[BSK]

Very complicated question to answer, because every buck is an individual. First, many bucks spend their summer months in a bachelor group far from their fall range. They leave their summer bachelor group range and head back to their fall range right around antler velvet shedding. Once in their fall range, they might just expand their range once the rut hits, often doubling the size of their range. However, some bucks pick up and leave their fall range and move to a temporary rut-season range, which they inhabit during the 5-6 weeks of breeding, then head back to their fall range.

Monitoring private properties with trail-camera from mid-summer through deer season, I often a see a couple of periods when bucks suddenly appear or leave the property causing a serious change in the population of bucks using the property. The first is the forementioned antler velvet shedding, when bucks leave their summer range and move to their fall range. Then a second period is just before the rut - in Middle TN it's usually the last week of October and first week of November. Th third period is post-rut. Again, in Middle TN that's usually first or second week of December.

 

[lol]

Very complicated question to answer, because every buck is an individual. First, many bucks spend their summer months in a bachelor group far from their fall range. They leave their summer bachelor group range and head back to their fall range right around antler velvet shedding. Once in their fall range, they might just expand their range once the rut hits, often doubling the size of their range. However, some bucks pick up and leave their fall range and move to a temporary rut-season range, which they inhabit during the 5-6 weeks of breeding, then head back to their fall range.

Monitoring private properties with trail-camera from mid-summer through deer season, I often a see a couple of periods when bucks suddenly appear or leave the property causing a serious change in the population of bucks using the property. The first is the forementioned antler velvet shedding, when bucks leave their summer range and move to their fall range. Then a second period is just before the rut - in Middle TN it's usually the last week of October and first week of November. Th third period is post-rut. Again, in Middle TN that's usually first or second week of December.

Gotcha. I'm up in the mountains and what I've seen is separation since shedding velvet with one guy returning shortly after. I guess time will tell how much I see of them going forward. It would be nice if they stayed, as of today, my little 50 acres is being frequented by 3 bucks, two 10s and a big 7, and about 5 does, which would make a nice ratio for the rut.

 

[BSK]

Gotcha. I'm up in the mountains and what I've seen is separation since shedding velvet with one guy returning shortly after. I guess time will tell how much I see of them going forward. It would be nice if they stayed, as of today, my little 50 acres is being frequented by 3 bucks, two 10s and a big 7, and about 5 does, which would make a nice ratio for the rut.

That makes it easy!

Trying tracking a property that is trying to keep track of 70 bucks, or 100 bucks, or like one of my clients, over 130 bucks. That gets interesting!

 

[lol]

That makes it easy!

Trying tracking a property that is trying to keep track of 70 bucks, or 100 bucks, or like one of my clients, over 130 bucks. That gets interesting!

That actually sounds amazing.

 

[tree_ghost]

That makes it easy!

Trying tracking a property that is trying to keep track of 70 bucks, or 100 bucks, or like one of my clients, over 130 bucks. That gets interesting!

How large is his Tract?

 

[BSK]

How large is his Tract?

The largest one, 5,500 acres.

But even on my little 500 acres, I often pick up 35-40 bucks over the course of a season. Last year, with the massive acorn crop, was record year, with 70 unique bucks picked up on cam.

 

[lol]

The largest one, 5,500 acres.

But even on my little 500 acres, I often pick up 35-40 bucks over the course of a season. Last year, with the massive acorn crop, was record year, with 70 unique bucks picked up on cam.

That's a good density on 5500 acres. 20/25 sq mi?

 

[BSK]

That's a good density on 5500 acres. 20/25 sq mi?

Only problem is, you can't really look at a census that way. With each buck having possibly a range exceeding 2,000 acres, most of them are crossing onto neighboring properties. So who gets to count that buck in "their" density calculations?

Photo censuses are best used as just a trend indicator over time. Are there more, less, or the same number of bucks using a given property from year to year? The actual number won't give you an accurate density number because bucks are constantly shifting from one area to another.

The smaller the property, the flukier photo census data becomes. Deer are entering and leaving a property all the time. For instance, I've identified 35 unique bucks on my 500 acres since the 1st of August. However, pick any period of time and the number is much lower. In fact, several of those 35 bucks haven't been seen since mid-August. They shifted somewhere else. In addition, 12 of those 35 bucks just showed up from October 9th to the 18th. I'll probably pick up a dozen more before peak breeding. However, at no time are all those bucks on the property at the same time. I like to look at the inventory of bucks I have on cam for each month. I also look at buck numbers over half-month periods ((approximately two-week periods). The numbers look very different when you do that!

 

[Ski]

First of all congrats on attaining your own dirt to hunt. It's a whole lot of fun working the habitat, tracking the deer season to season, etc.

My experience has been that usually well less than 50% of summer bucks are around in the fall, but for every one buck that leaves it seems at least two show up in his place. Then as late winter sets in and rut fades, it's another reshuffle of the deck.

That all said, by far & above the most consistency I see is during the fall. If I have a buck here this fall then if he's still alive I'll have him again next fall, and so on until he dies. I also progressively see them more often as they age with each passing season, presumably because their core areas shrink as they age. Summer bucks are much less predictable year to year, and winter bucks are always a little mix of summer bucks, fall bucks, and random new bucks that are looking for food, safety from hunting, or both.

 

[BSK]

Agree completely Ski.

 

[megalomaniac]

Good stuff here...

Folks would do well to pay attention to the advice given. It's spot on.

 

[BSK]

Again, camera censused are best used to track trends over time versus generating useful single-season numbers. Below are two graphs, one of the total number of deer picked up on season-long non-baited censuses over time, by sex and age, and the second is the buck population over time by age. These types of analyses are a huge help when making management decisions.

 

[lol]

Again, camera censused are best used to track trends over time versus generating useful single-season numbers. Below are two graphs, one of the total number of deer picked up on season-long non-baited censuses over time, by sex and age, and the second is the buck population over time by age. These types of analyses are a huge help when making management decisions.

I'd love to see some gains like that. I'm surrounded by CNF so best I can do is draw deer and provide fawning habitat. I'm hoping to get two patch cuts done, about 2.25 acres each, and get more food sources established. There's quite a bit of stemmy understory all over but it doesn't hold up well when leave fall, and isn't really ground cover for fawns. I've also got a bunch of virginia pine I don't know what to do with, but it seems they've been using it for bedding and travel, despite the lack of food sources. There's a ton of struggling crab apple getting choked out underneath, so I'm going to try and do some release work and some hack and squirt to reduce competition.

 

[megalomaniac]

Somebody needs to make this thread a sticky...
It's critical in understanding buck dynamic fluidity especially during this time of the season.

 

[BSK]

I'd love to see some gains like that. I'm surrounded by CNF so best I can do is draw deer and provide fawning habitat. I'm hoping to get two patch cuts done, about 2.25 acres each, and get more food sources established. There's quite a bit of stemmy understory all over but it doesn't hold up well when leave fall, and isn't really ground cover for fawns. I've also got a bunch of virginia pine I don't know what to do with, but it seems they've been using it for bedding and travel, despite the lack of food sources. There's a ton of struggling crab apple getting choked out underneath, so I'm going to try and do some release work and some hack and squirt to reduce competition.

My 500 acres is larger than what most hunters have access to manage, but it's still not that big. I would bet good money not a single deer lives completely within the confines of my property. Most of my management is about drawing deer out of my neighbors' agricultural bottomlands once the crops have been harvested. The local deer I hunt every year are only partially the product of my management. Some live there in the summer, but most don't. So I live with the limitations of the property and all of my management is geared towards drawing deer to the property during hunting season. But nothing wrong with that.

 

[lol]

My 500 acres is larger than what most hunters have access to manage, but it's still not that big. I would bet good money not a single deer lives completely within the confines of my property. Most of my management is about drawing deer out of my neighbors' agricultural bottomlands once the crops have been harvested. The local deer I hunt every year are only partially the product of my management. Some live there in the summer, but most don't. So I live with the limitations of the property and all of my management is geared towards drawing deer to the property during hunting season. But nothing wrong with that.

My plans are the result of consulting with a biologist. I'd highly recommend that anyone looking to improve private ground and seriously consider consulting with a professional.

 

[Ski]

I'd love to see some gains like that. I'm surrounded by CNF so best I can do is draw deer and provide fawning habitat. I'm hoping to get two patch cuts done, about 2.25 acres each, and get more food sources established. There's quite a bit of stemmy understory all over but it doesn't hold up well when leave fall, and isn't really ground cover for fawns. I've also got a bunch of virginia pine I don't know what to do with, but it seems they've been using it for bedding and travel, despite the lack of food sources. There's a ton of struggling crab apple getting choked out underneath, so I'm going to try and do some release work and some hack and squirt to reduce competition.

Oh it won't take much to see gains, especially considering your situation. Being surrounded by a huge public forest gives you an opportunity to be the oasis. "Location location location" doesn't only apply to residential & commercial real estate. It very much applies to hunting real estate. And it sounds like you've got an incredible location. With some deliberate & thoughtful habitat work your place may not be large enough to encompass a deer's range but it'll quickly become the nucleus of it.

 

[lol]

Oh it won't take much to see gains, especially considering your situation. Being surrounded by a huge public forest gives you an opportunity to be the oasis. "Location location location" doesn't only apply to residential & commercial real estate. It very much applies to hunting real estate. And it sounds like you've got an incredible location. With some deliberate & thoughtful habitat work your place may not be large enough to encompass a deer's range but it'll quickly become the nucleus of it.

I appreciate it. That's the hope. They seem pretty comfortable there, I just wish they were a little less skittish. I'm not sure these mountain deer are as much skittish from pressure as its just their nature. They don't even blow, they just dip.