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"Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

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TheLBLman

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Read something a moment ago where a poster said, "I'd let him live another year, although I might shoot him with a bow."
What difference does it make which weapon you're using in determining whether a particular buck is a "shooter" or not?

If it matters to you much, then my take is you're more a weapons enthusiast than a hunter. Not that you can't be both, just saying most of us tend to be at least a little more one than the other. I'll probably spend more days hunting with archery/muzzleloader equipment this year than centerfire, and while I enjoy hunting with whatever weapon is in my hand, to me, it's more about the hunt than the weapon. When the centerfire "gun" season opens statewide, you'll probably not see me heading afield deer hunting with a pistol instead of a rifle. Am usually going to be using the most effective weapon I own that's legal.

But that's not really what I'd like to discuss most.
I'm more curious about the rationale of hunters' CHANGING their "Shooter" Buck Standards based on the time of the season, i.e. early season, the rut, and late season. And also, how does early seasonal success (or lack there of) effect these standards?

Seems I often hear hunters say they lower their standards late-season, yet my thinking is just the opposite, as I raise mine post-rut. Not that they change much from early season to late season, but a buck I "might" take early season is more inclined to get to walk late season. My thinking is he's fairly likely to be killed during the rut, but if he survived to post-rut, he has an excellent chance of getting another year older if I let him walk. So borderline bucks I might have taken in November get to walk in December.

Whether I kill a buck or go "buckless" doesn't change this, in that I don't lower my standards late season when I've not been able to take what I considered a shooter buck earlier. Should add I kill enough does for meat, so never have any need to kill a buck for the table.

By no means do I want to come across as "criticizing" anyone's preferences here, such as by saying some are more into their weapons than their hunting. Just curious as to why we have the preferences we have. Some will say I'm more into deer management than deer hunting, which may be true, although I do regularly kill quite a few deer (and usually with the most effective weapon that's legal to use).
 
Re: "Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

Poser said:
I definitely don't buy the "bow Buck" philosophy. Is it more difficult to kill deer with a bow? Absolutely. Does that change my standards? Absolutely not.
Click to expand...
x 3

However, my standards tend to be slightly lower pre-rut than post-rut, and this is typically during the early "bow" season. It's just that this has nothing to do with the weapon for me, and everything to do with the "timing".

Some people say they hunt exclusively with a bow because it's more challenging than a gun. No doubt about that. But is it more challenging to kill ANY buck with a bow vs. only MATURE bucks with a gun? Not sure I know the answer to this question.

I mainly hunt for the challenge of the hunt, for the meat, and in the case of a buck, for the antlers.

These are the "main" things one cannot get from any of a number of other outdoor endeavors, many of which offer some of the enjoyments we also get while hunting, and some of which can directly effect the quality of our hunting. "Hunting" is not my only passion, but it's striking how many of my other hobbies or passions somehow relate to the hunting.
 
I was thinking about posting this exact same thing after seeing the post. Now there is definately nothing wrong with lowering you standards with a weopon but to me it doesn't matter what weopon Im using.

I still haven't killed a buck with a bow(only been bow hunting two years). I've passed up plenty though.
 
I'm definitely in stages when it comes to weapons used in hunting. I'll still comment on my best "muzzleloader" buck, or my best "rifle" buck, and, by the same token, I'll comment on my best bow buck. I'm nowhere near the competency level with my bow than I am with a firearm, and I started somwhere with each of them, so, I surely will shoot a buck with my bow that I would let pass with a firearm. And, down the line, after my skill level has increased, I plan to be somewhere close to passing the same quality of deer with each weapon, hopefully. :)
 
Bow, muzzleloader, rifle, or spear....a dead deer is a dead deer. I am out to kill a big buck and my goal stays the same no matter what weapon I am using; although 99.7% of the time it's with my Mathews!


...btw, I don't hunt with a spear...
 
Shame on you. You really should spear hunt. Once you try it, you give up your other cheater equipment completely. I justbought a new 4" Rage head for my spear. I got the model with the replaceable blades and point.
 
Re: "Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

Like I stated before my standards going into the season is 4.5 or 140ish + I don't lower my standards for bow or early season because I don't want to mess my spots up by leaving blood trails/human scent trails/sweat getting a buck or doe out. I try to maximize my chances. I have my stands placed where I put very little pressure on deer getting into them. When you bust one with a bow it generally goes 30 to 150 yards always into the habitat you don't want to be going. If I've hunted my but off all year and haven't killed what I set out to I don't mind lowering my goals and taking a 120+ buck. It still makes me happy to be successful even if I didn't get my ultimate goal and one less buck for next year isnt the end of the world or management plan. As far as meat goes I've got places that are not really good big buck spots that I'll go to to fill my freezer. Everybody is different and if that's what makes one happy than go with it!
 
As a beginner bow hunter, my standards will be lower with a bow than with a rifle or muzzleloader. Similarly, my standards on public land are lower than on my lease. Some have said that any deer taken on high pressured public land should be considered a trophy.
 
BluegrassDan said:
Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.
Click to expand...

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)
 
I can remember the first buck I put on the ground that I felt disappointed in killing. I can then remember a couple more after that one. I didn't like that feeling and I didn't feel as if I had accomplished anything except killing. That's when I first cranked up my standards and gradually they grew to what they are today. I'll admit that a deer is harder to take with archery as opposed to rifle but he's still the same buck no matter what weapon is in hand. If he doesn't meet my standards it has nothing to do with what I'm hunting with. I'll also admit that afforded the luxory of taking does like we are here in SW Tn helps take the pressure off as far as providing table fare so my style of buck hunting is something I can concentrate on.

Not everyone is as particular as I am so when I see a "tweener" buck (one that is on the verge of being what I consider to be a shooter or just under) late in the season I'm tickled to see he's made it thus far and the last thing I'm going to do is take him out when he's that close to being safe for the season. Hopefully he'll have a great spring and summer ahead of him and we'll meet again next Fall.
 
Wes, that is what you get when you a multiple buck limit. With a one buck limit, it changes, there are basically only good bucks with whatever weapon. Many bucks get another year or 2 or 3 to live in the lower limit scenario. That is why I say there is no such thing as a good bowkill or a good muzzleloader kill. I have though the same thing and killed bucks with the same thought process and even posted the same thing. When you get to thinking about it though, all bucks are good bucks and why cheapen what is killed by saying I would have let him walk if I had been gun hunting, but since I was "bowhunting or muzzleloading or traditional gear hunting, etc." I shot him. Makes no sense when you think about it.
 
MUP said:
BluegrassDan said:
Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.
Click to expand...

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)
Click to expand...
Very true.

I also do most of my hunting in East TN where there is a pretty low deer density. My typical season goes like this.

Oct.- I'm in the woods to fill the freezer. "Brown it down". The primary reason I hunt is to kill deer. The first several deer I see gets shot. If I pass on a buck thinking a doe is going to come along, I might not have a shot at another deer that month (you Middle and West TN guys probably have a hard time comprehending this).

Nov.- This is the single best time to kill a mature buck. My standards go up. I don't want to shoot an immature buck, only to have a mature buck come along right after it.

Dec.- If I have already killed all the deer I want, my standards go up again. I've already been hunting hard for 2 months and don't really want to fool with one, unless it's what I would consider a real trophy. HOWEVER - If I would like to kill another deer for the freezer, or know of a family that could really use the meat, my standards are gone again. Since I hunt several counties, sometimes in the same day, and unit B's doe days are so convoluted, that means I'm shooting any buck I see.

Jan.- I travel out of state because I love hunting the really late season and the really cold weather. Same standards as December.
 
Wes Parrish said:
Read something a moment ago where a poster said, "I'd let him live another year, although I might shoot him with a bow."
What difference does it make which weapon you're using in determining whether a particular buck is a "shooter" or not?

If it matters to you much, then my take is you're more a weapons enthusiast than a hunter. Not that you can't be both, just saying most of us tend to be at least a little more one than the other. I'll probably spend more days hunting with archery/muzzleloader equipment this year than centerfire, and while I enjoy hunting with whatever weapon is in my hand, to me, it's more about the hunt than the weapon. When the centerfire "gun" season opens statewide, you'll probably not see me heading afield deer hunting with a pistol instead of a rifle. Am usually going to be using the most effective weapon I own that's legal.

But that's not really what I'd like to discuss most.
I'm more curious about the rationale of hunters' CHANGING their "Shooter" Buck Standards based on the time of the season, i.e. early season, the rut, and late season. And also, how does early seasonal success (or lack there of) effect these standards?

Seems I often hear hunters say they lower their standards late-season, yet my thinking is just the opposite, as I raise mine post-rut. Not that they change much from early season to late season, but a buck I "might" take early season is more inclined to get to walk late season. My thinking is he's fairly likely to be killed during the rut, but if he survived to post-rut, he has an excellent chance of getting another year older if I let him walk. So borderline bucks I might have taken in November get to walk in December.

Whether I kill a buck or go "buckless" doesn't change this, in that I don't lower my standards late season when I've not been able to take what I considered a shooter buck earlier. Should add I kill enough does for meat, so never have any need to kill a buck for the table.

By no means do I want to come across as "criticizing" anyone's preferences here, such as by saying some are more into their weapons than their hunting. Just curious as to why we have the preferences we have. Some will say I'm more into deer management than deer hunting, which may be true, although I do regularly kill quite a few deer (and usually with the most effective weapon that's legal to use).
Click to expand...

Spoken like a man with GREAT private property land to hunt.

It never ceases to amaze me what a VAST difference there is in hunting philosophies between hunters who have opportunities to kill "does at will" and those who do not.

Wes,
I guess you have to be a hunter who, either by their own choice, or by their economic and time restricions, simply have VERY few and limited deer encounters.

There are many of us who do not see multiple DEER in a weeks hunt. Forget multiple bucks.
Many seasons I have sat in my stand for WEEKS and not laid eyes on a SINGLE solitary deer. But that is Public land hunting.

Do I lower my standards with a bow?
What standards?

I guess you could say I do. I am pretty sure both Pope and Young and Boone and Crockett recognize the difference.

It is, and always has been, MUCH more challenging to kill a deer, ANY DEER, with a bow and arrow, as compared to a gun.
PERIOD.

And ANY deer is potentially a trophy to ANY hunter with any weapon. Depends on the hunter.

102
 
What difference does it make? You have your opinions, everyone else has theirs.

And to 102's point...opportunity has a great influence on many...much more so to me now than ever befroe.

I can remember a point in my life where I spent as much as 75% of available dates afield...and after I got grown to the point where I had to work full time, opportunities decrease. Where I once spent every weekend, all my vacation, and numerous mornings and evening afterwork hunting, scouting, and working at it...last year I got to hunt opening day of muzzle loader, opening day of rifle, and one addtional afternoon with a rifle in my hands...I was looking to kill ANYTHING those days. And with precious little time/no time to scout or property that I had access to, I had to rely on being placed in a position by friends...confidence lacks so standards decrease.
 
MUP said:
BluegrassDan said:
Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.
Click to expand...

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)
Click to expand...

I don't know of many places in Tennessee where I can see that many deer or bucks, I've seen that many deer maybe three times in 14 years and I hunted in one of the arguebly better areas in the state for about 7 years
 
Re: "Shooter" Buck Standards & "Timing"

easy45 said:
MUP said:
BluegrassDan said:
Many hunts in East TN result in seeing no deer at all. I'm a "brown is down" guy except for fawns. Once I've got one in the freezer I tend to be a little more selective.
Click to expand...

This is a very little known fact for a lot of folks. A whole lot of folks can't imagine going out and not seeing 20-30 deer at a sitting, with a min of 7-10 bucks each time. Not a smart remark at all, just stating a fact. ;)
Click to expand...

I don't know of many places in Tennessee where I can see that many deer or bucks, I've seen that many deer maybe three times in 14 years and I hunted in one of the arguebly better areas in the state for about 7 years
Click to expand...

HH said:
Fairly common here. I saw 7-10 bucks on about 10 different hunts this past year. Part of it is because I am fairly selective. [/end quote]

Yep, I hear a lot of claims just like this thru out the year from middle and west Tn. More power to you guys, but it's just not that busy in the se part of the state for me.
Click to expand...
 

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