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Teaching marskmanship

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BSK

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I know this isn't exactly a "serious deer hunting" topic, but it certainly pertains to it:

How do you teach marksmanship skills? Are there classes available? I have some family members that are just starting to deer hunt and they have some real problems with marksmanship. In addition, my daughter is just starting to shoot. I honestly don't know how to help them with any possible problems, as I was never really taught how to shoot (other than how to hold a BB-gun and aim down the sights).
 
I'm going through the same thing with my girlfriend. "Look down the scope, put the X on the target and squeeze the trigger" over, and over, and over. Nothing helps. It blows my mind. To me its like telling someone how to breath, its difficult to explain or put into words.
 
Hard to explain that through a post. But I teach this alot in the military to kids that cant hit the broadside of a barn. I have my own ways of doing things but when teaching groups of people you need to come up with standard ways of doing things. You need to be able to recognize what a person is doing wrong when you see them shooting, its all experience, ie. you dont learn to shoot by reading a book, you learn to shoot by burning through ammo. You would be suprised how many people dont hold the rifle tight to their shoulder, dont get a good stock/cheek weld, close their eyes right before pulling the trigger. I like to teach to shoot right at the end of an exhale. These are all good things to look for. Good shooting starts with something like a .22, not a high power rifle. Learn to shoot a .22 and you can shoot any other rifle.
 
What stone said. I burned through hundred's of .22's as a kid. All through a remington targetmaster single shot. No way you could get in a hurry shooting that. :)
 
I agree with smstone22, start 'em on .22's. I'd keep the targets close 25 yards and use something similar to what they will be using to hunt (bolt for boly, lever for lever, you get the idea. Don't talk about kick and recoil it's intimidating hence the .22. When I went through basic our Drill's taught is BRAS then modified it to BRAS-F. Breathe, Relax, Aim, Squeeze, Fire.

One thing that I do with my son is let him get set in a supported position, prone or whatever, and using his sling military style, dry fire with a $0.01 or $0.10 on the end of the barrel. If you can keep the sight on the target, pull the trigger, and not loose the coin consistently then you are headed in the right direction.

My son didn't think it could be done so I showed him it could. We were using his Rossi .243. I had everything in place then squeezed the trigger and nothing happened. It was then that I noticed that the hammer was not pulled all the way back. I slowly reached across with my right index finger and engaged the hammer and pulled the trigger and never lost the coin. Don't think I could do it again but chalk one up for dad!
 
eweisner said:
One thing that I do with my son is let him get set in a supported position, prone or whatever, and using his sling military style, dry fire with a $0.01 or $0.10 on the end of the barrel. If you can keep the sight on the target, pull the trigger, and not loose the coin consistently then you are headed in the right direction.
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Good idea, I'm going to try that
 
The hardest part I have in teaching marksmanship is getting the student to realize the gun must become an extension of themselves.

Everyone has the basic ability if they can point their finger at an object. They MUST start with that.

Watch a beginner and notice how uncomfortable they are with a gun. The body language shows they do not welcome the gun as part of their being (For lack of a better term). A seasoned marksman literally becomes one with the gun. The gun moves with their eyes, it is truly a part of them.

There was a video many years ago where a man taught marksmanship using bb guns without sights..I wish I could find it. What he was really teaching was becoming comfortable with the gun, and having it become an extension of the student's body. They pointed it just like pointing a finger.

Teach them to point it before you teach them to aim it, and the aiming becomes easy.

When I shot indoor pistol, it always amazed me when people's scores were higher on the rapid fire than on the slow fire. They were more accurate pointing than they were taking their time aiming. They did not have time to think about it, close an eye, and miss.
 
Ill say another thing, these marksmanship problems among deer hunters are becoming more and more common. Due to the abundance of deer, alot of new hunters never start out squirrel hunting anymore, they just go right to deer hunting. Squirrel hunting with a .22 is how marksmanship is taught the country way but its just not being done alot anymore. Perhaps you could have a get together where everyone practices with .22's and heads out for a morning squirrel hunt every now and then.
 
Agree with Steven. My son is 9 and I started him out with a Daisy Red Rider and empty shotgun shell boxes. Told him about breathing out and squeezing the trigger vs. pulling it. I think most misses are because of that. People get so excited and forget everything. My son may be a better shot than me. He's killed 2 deer (1 rifle & 1 muzzleloader) and 1 turkey and all 3 dropped in their tracks. I also believe if the gun almost scares you when it goes off you squeezed the trigger rather than pulled it.
 
BSK, in order to become the best, one must set a goal of what they expect from themselves.

If one is to become an expert, then learning how to pull the trigger is only a VERY small part of the overall exercise.

If your goal is to be able to kill deer inside say, 75 yards, on a regular basis, then you must start by learning how to accomplish hitting the bulls eye at twice that distance under relaxed conditions.

Perfection in the target sports (all else being equal) is about 95% mental.

It takes discipline.

102
 
heres another question to this thread, what age? my son is going on four. im not trying to brag, but hes growing up in the outdoors, we camp/fish every weekend till late august, and has his picture made with every deer me, my brother in law/ father in law and all my buddies have taken, hes not scared of it. my concern is starting too late or too soon, when did yall start
 
There are some very good DVD's out there that teach marksmanship. David Tubbs has several. It's better to learn from these pros than from anyone else IMO. I watch these hunters on TV shows shoot and I notice a lot of mistakes. One I see often is resting the barrel on the stand versus the stock and holding the top of the scope with the front hand. Both of these affect the barrel or muzzle jump and the bullet's flight. Makes little difference on a 100 yd. shot but on a long shot could make a difference. I taught my sons how to find a buck in the scope easy by looking through the scope with the dominant eye while looking around the scope with the weak eye. You can see both at the same time with practice. I guess what Im saying is that the basics should come from a pro, but the fine tuning should come from a mentor. My sons shoot better than me because they learned the right way first and didn't have to be retrained.
 
Nhill said:
eweisner said:
One thing that I do with my son is let him get set in a supported position, prone or whatever, and using his sling military style, dry fire with a $0.01 or $0.10 on the end of the barrel. If you can keep the sight on the target, pull the trigger, and not loose the coin consistently then you are headed in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Good idea, I'm going to try that
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Yup, the dime/washer drills - spent many a day doing that while in Infantry basic training. Helps a lot to teach you not to pull your shot and to regulate your breathing
 
stik said:
what helped me and my kids more than anything was hundreds of thousands of bb's through a good air rifle.
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I couldnt agree more. I remember always shooting at bottle caps with the iron sights on the air rifle growing up. My friends and I would have contest on who could hit it at different distances.
 
stik said:
what helped me and my kids more than anything was hundreds of thousands of bb's through a good air rifle.
Click to expand...
Same here. I owned about every model Crosman produced in the mid to late 80s (.177 and .22 caliber). Fun times in my grandma's yard, unless you were a bird, squirrel or chipmunk. :)
 
The problem is not repetition or hard-kicking guns. They are shooting 22s. However, repetition is not helping. They have some error(s) in their shooting form, but from watching them shoot, I can't decipher what their problems are.

I was lucky in that basic marksmanship ability is somewhat "genetic" in my family. My mother's parents were both trick-shot performers, my mother is an exceptional shot, and about half of the children in the family got the "shooting gene" (whatever that is). I was never taught marksmanship skills because I didn't need them. Being able to hit whatever I pointed a gun at came naturally (to a point, I'm no long-range marksman by any means, but anything within 150 yards is no problem). Because I never had to learn marksmanship, I don't know how to teach it to someone else. In essence, I don't know how to identify shooting mistakes. What's a good resource for learning the symptoms and causes of shooting mistakes?
 
BSK said:
The problem is not repetition or hard-kicking guns. They are shooting 22s. However, repetition is not helping. They have some error(s) in their shooting form, but from watching them shoot, I can't decipher what their problems are.

I was lucky in that basic marksmanship ability is somewhat "genetic" in my family. My mother's parents were both trick-shot performers, my mother is an exceptional shot, and about half of the children in the family got the "shooting gene" (whatever that is). I was never taught marksmanship skills because I didn't need them. Being able to hit whatever I pointed a gun at came naturally (to a point, I'm no long-range marksman by any means, but anything with 150 yards is no problem). Because I never had to learn marksmanship, I don't know how to teach it to someone else. In essence, I don't know how to identify shooting mistakes.
Click to expand...

How old are they? Some kids just take a little longer until they figure it out and like you said, some are just born with it. I gave my wife my .22 mag one day and told her "Look through the scope, put where the lines cross in the scope on the target, make sure there is no black in the scope, keep your eye on the target the entire time and steady squeeze the trigger." It was that easy and now she rarely misses the bullseye. On the other hand I have a nephew who I have been working with like crazy that just cant figure it out, I believe its a comprehension thing. He's still young though and it will click one day.
 

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