Tennessee bucks

[PickettSFHunter]

Why do you think that is PickettSFHunter? Fewer hunters? Fewer deer? Both?

Certainly not fewer hunters. We have way less deer so less bucks are reaching the age they need to reach to throw out those occasional freaks. I believe it's a combination of several issues.

The bear population just absolutely exploded and they have developed a taste for fawns in the Spring. When we became known for big deer, we didn't have bears, thanks TWRA for that. It's pitiful what our fawn recruitment a few weeks after birth has dropped to. I literally see more bear cubs than deer fawns, that's no joke.

Less deer has led to another compounding issue. We were already known for lots of poaching. Less deer means more hunters that decide to cheat because it's so hard to see much anymore legally. Cell camera with a bait pile has become widely popular. Get the pic, slip out and shoot the buck. I am amazed how effective that has been for a lot of people. It's more effective than anyone wants to think. I keep a hog bait out on my farm that I don't deer hunt and could shoot a particular really nice buck there a couple nights a week if I were into that.

The third issue, development. So many people are moving here in droves. You need wild areas for deer to get age here due to the poaching issues. Thousands upon thousand of acres with no roads are needed. You need large areas that can't be road hunted or hunted with night vision. We have lost so many of these areas just in the last few years to development. Most of the people moving here want to somewhat be involved in the outdoors so they shoot deer in the yard and out behind the house.

I really think the good old days are done here in my area unfortunately.

 

[Gravey]

Some studs for sure. I remember hunting in the mid to late 80's when the buck limit was 11 if memory serves me correct and the predominant feeling was brown and down. I'm still ok with that if that's what you're after. I typically only shoot 1 buck a year and sometimes not even that but you can't do that and then complain you're not seeing big bucks. Trigger restraint is huge and I struggle with it just like the next guy at times.

 

[ZachMarkus]

A lot less big deer being killed in my area now vs 15 years ago. We don't have the numbers we used to either.

 

[Grandslam11]

BSK I recognize ALOT of these pictures from when you have posted them in the last. It's a walk down memory lane lol

 

[Shed Hunter]

There are so many giant deer out there it's hard to believe. I've seen tons of trail cam pics of 150s to even a 200" deer in TN that I haven't even seen posted on the internet

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

A lot less big deer being killed in my area now vs 15 years ago. We don't have the numbers we used to either.

I agree 100%

 

[TX300mag]

These are definitely the good ol' days!

 

[megalomaniac]

I guess I depends on your definition of 'stud buck'. Back in the 90s... a 110in buck was a giant. He was 2.5 or 3.5yo. Now, most would consider a 130 to 140in buck a 'stud buck' (usually 4.5 to 5.5yo) and 110in buck is now a dink.

It's ALL about age. The old adage of the 3 legged stool of age, genetics, and nutrition is archaic. The genetic potential (population wise, not individual buck wise) has been debunked. Nutrition is not an issue (in most places... im sure there are some areas that are overpopulated with starving deer, but not many)... the single factor that gives a buck a chance to express his genetic potential is age.

Now that being said, I don't see TN advancing in age structure any more in the future from where we are now. So be happy with those 130 to 140in 4.5 to 5.5yos, with the rare genetic anomalies above 150s in TN. BUT... more folks are starting to pass those exceptional top 1 to 2% genetic bucks that are 135 to 150 3.5yos... those are the ones that will be the real stud bucks at maturity (150 plus)

 

[DRSJ35]

Certainly not fewer hunters. We have way less deer so less bucks are reaching the age they need to reach to throw out those occasional freaks. I believe it's a combination of several issues.

The bear population just absolutely exploded and they have developed a taste for fawns in the Spring. When we became known for big deer, we didn't have bears, thanks TWRA for that. It's pitiful what our fawn recruitment a few weeks after birth has dropped to. I literally see more bear cubs than deer fawns, that's no joke.

Less deer has led to another compounding issue. We were already known for lots of poaching. Less deer means more hunters that decide to cheat because it's so hard to see much anymore legally. Cell camera with a bait pile has become widely popular. Get the pic, slip out and shoot the buck. I am amazed how effective that has been for a lot of people. It's more effective than anyone wants to think. I keep a hog bait out on my farm that I don't deer hunt and could shoot a particular really nice buck there a couple nights a week if I were into that.

The third issue, development. So many people are moving here in droves. You need wild areas for deer to get age here due to the poaching issues. Thousands upon thousand of acres with no roads are needed. You need large areas that can't be road hunted or hunted with night vision. We have lost so many of these areas just in the last few years to development. Most of the people moving here want to somewhat be involved in the outdoors so they shoot deer in the yard and out behind the house.

I really think the good old days are done here in my area unfortunately.

Encroaching Yankees have ruined just about every place they move to. They move from a big city buy 5 acres and try to become a farmer. TV has warped their mind with all the leave the city and prep. Most I have seen have failed and given away all there farm animals. But still come and ruin a place acres at a time. Ruining hunting land destroying farms and driving up tax's and property and housing prices. Values of homes where they come from go for insane prices. They sell and then come here. But paying highly inflated prices cause people here know only a yankee would pay that much. Then the domino affect. Yes my house is worth more but I couldn't buy a turd if I sold. Ever wonder why it's never a northern town that southerners have moved in droves to and ruined. Of course not cause anywhere out of the south has be ruined by the assholes they keep voting in. With more red tape and tax's. So they leave and then complain that TN needs this and TN needs that. Then another domino affect after years of complaining and soon as they get elected into local politics it's over. because now the town locals are the minority they easily get elected. Then they move on to the next town.

 

[slabhead]

Was against it then. Still am. Wasn't needed. Didn't do anything. Everything we're seeing today (post 11 buck limit) is purely driven by hunter trigger control (which I NEVER expected hunters to do with the ferocity that they do today).

I agree...I've let more deer walk in the last 10 + years...the limit has nothing to do with it for me or my sons...it's all about what we want to take.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I agree...zero doubt that on the farms we hunt and manage that we see and take more mature bucks now than we did in years past.... trigger restraint and trail cameras have both played a big part....I say trail cameras because I believe they have opened people's eyes to what is possible...more people are letting nice bucks walk now than before.....and I agree with others....if shooting a young buck meets your personal goals and makes you happy then go for it! ....but what drives me crazy is co-workers who tag out on the first two 2½ year old 8pts and then when someone else kills a solid mature buck they moan, groan and complain that they don't have any "big bucks" in their area...kill what makes you happy....but if our goal is to kill bigger mature bucks then we gotta let some nice bucks walk...or limit the number of bucks we kill on the properties we manage.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I'm loving these days. I don't see them getting any better, especially with CWD creeping its way toward our area. Stud deer for sure being killed all over

 

[atnvol]

Certainly not fewer hunters. We have way less deer so less bucks are reaching the age they need to reach to throw out those occasional freaks. I believe it's a combination of several issues.

The bear population just absolutely exploded and they have developed a taste for fawns in the Spring. When we became known for big deer, we didn't have bears, thanks TWRA for that. It's pitiful what our fawn recruitment a few weeks after birth has dropped to. I literally see more bear cubs than deer fawns, that's no joke.

Less deer has led to another compounding issue. We were already known for lots of poaching. Less deer means more hunters that decide to cheat because it's so hard to see much anymore legally. Cell camera with a bait pile has become widely popular. Get the pic, slip out and shoot the buck. I am amazed how effective that has been for a lot of people. It's more effective than anyone wants to think. I keep a hog bait out on my farm that I don't deer hunt and could shoot a particular really nice buck there a couple nights a week if I were into that.

The third issue, development. So many people are moving here in droves. You need wild areas for deer to get age here due to the poaching issues. Thousands upon thousand of acres with no roads are needed. You need large areas that can't be road hunted or hunted with night vision. We have lost so many of these areas just in the last few years to development. Most of the people moving here want to somewhat be involved in the outdoors so they shoot deer in the yard and out behind the house.

I really think the good old days are done here in my area unfortunately.

Good insight Pickett. I expect that you are very spot on in your analysis.

 

[DeerCamp]

I guess I depends on your definition of 'stud buck'. Back in the 90s... a 110in buck was a giant. He was 2.5 or 3.5yo. Now, most would consider a 130 to 140in buck a 'stud buck' (usually 4.5 to 5.5yo) and 110in buck is now a dink.

It's ALL about age. The old adage of the 3 legged stool of age, genetics, and nutrition is archaic. The genetic potential (population wise, not individual buck wise) has been debunked. Nutrition is not an issue (in most places... im sure there are some areas that are overpopulated with starving deer, but not many)... the single factor that gives a buck a chance to express his genetic potential is age.

Now that being said, I don't see TN advancing in age structure any more in the future from where we are now. So be happy with those 130 to 140in 4.5 to 5.5yos, with the rare genetic anomalies above 150s in TN. BUT... more folks are starting to pass those exceptional top 1 to 2% genetic bucks that are 135 to 150 3.5yos... those are the ones that will be the real stud bucks at maturity (150 plus)

Problem in our areas is most of the farms are smallish (40-100 acres), and there aren't many of them that don't get hunted hard.

In this specific area, we certainly still have an issue with too many bucks being killed.

But I guess it is what it is.

 

[BSK]

Problem in our areas is most of the farms are smallish (40-100 acres), and there aren't many of them that don't get hunted hard.

In this specific area, we certainly still have an issue with too many bucks being killed.

But I guess it is what it is.

And there's the rub for setting seasons and limits on a statewide basis, or even a county basis. What works in one location doesn't work just down the road, because of drastic variances in habitat type and hunter density.

In some areas, a buck limit isn't even needed to maintain an adequate buck age structure. In other areas, even a one buck limit wouldn't save enough bucks to make a difference.

 

[tntime]

Encroaching Yankees have ruined just about every place they move to. They move from a big city buy 5 acres and try to become a farmer. TV has warped their mind with all the leave the city and prep. Most I have seen have failed and given away all there farm animals. But still come and ruin a place acres at a time. Ruining hunting land destroying farms and driving up tax's and property and housing prices. Values of homes where they come from go for insane prices. They sell and then come here. But paying highly inflated prices cause people here know only a yankee would pay that much. Then the domino affect. Yes my house is worth more but I couldn't buy a turd if I sold. Ever wonder why it's never a northern town that southerners have moved in droves to and ruined. Of course not cause anywhere out of the south has be ruined by the assholes they keep voting in. With more red tape and tax's. So they leave and then complain that TN needs this and TN needs that. Then another domino affect after years of complaining and soon as they get elected into local politics it's over. because now the town locals are the minority they easily get elected. Then they move on to the next town.

Encroaching Yankees have ruined just about every place they move to. They move from a big city buy 5 acres and try to become a farmer. TV has warped their mind with all the leave the city and prep. Most I have seen have failed and given away all there farm animals. But still come and ruin a place acres at a time. Ruining hunting land destroying farms and driving up tax's and property and housing prices. Values of homes where they come from go for insane prices. They sell and then come here. But paying highly inflated prices cause people here know only a yankee would pay that much. Then the domino affect. Yes my house is worth more but I couldn't buy a turd if I sold. Ever wonder why it's never a northern town that southerners have moved in droves to and ruined. Of course not cause anywhere out of the south has be ruined by the assholes they keep voting in. With more red tape and tax's. So they leave and then complain that TN needs this and TN needs that. Then another domino affect after years of complaining and soon as they get elected into local politics it's over. because now the town locals are the minority they easily get elected. Then they move on to the next town.

Sir, I guess I have to admit that I moved to TN and paid an inflated price for my home. I have desired to live here for the past ten years, and the Lord finally allowed us to move. I must point out that the house I purchased (and all the land you spoke of as purchased by Yankees) was sold to me by TN folk. What I desire for my life is here in TN, and a local hit me hard with the price to buy it. I will not become a problem for anyone here as far as voting to change TN. Conservative to the core, and I vote in every election. I do hope we will be good fellow citizens of this fine state and I wish y'all a Merry Christmas!

 

[Ski]

trigger restraint and trail cameras have both played a big part....I say trail cameras because I believe they have opened people's eyes to what is possible...

I'd bet that has played a significant role, as has peer pressure from social media.

I've also seen a trend of change among hunter demographics. I remember a time when nearly every boy in school hunted, and school would shut down for opening day of gun season. There would be an orange army everywhere with deer camps and social gatherings. These days a lot of kids don't hunt at all & have no interest. On the other side of the coin is an influx of adult onset hunters, and they tend to be conservation minded. Who hunts and how they hunt has changed.

 

[BSK]

These days a lot of kids don't hunt at all & have no interest.

It boggles my mind how many classmates - male classmates - of my college-age daughter are freaked out by her hunting. Honestly, being a gun-owner and avid hunter has greatly reduced the "pool" of guys who are interested in dating her. But that doesn't seem to bother her in the least. Good for her. Back in my day, guys would have been lined up wanting to date a girl that deer hunts.

 

[Ski]

It boggles my mind how many classmates - male classmates - of my college-age daughter are freaked out by her hunting. Honestly, being a gun-owner and avid hunter has greatly reduced the "pool" of guys who are interested in dating her. But that doesn't seem to bother her in the least. Good for her. Back in my day, guys would have been lined up wanting to date a girl that deer hunts.

Darwinism at work! The weak idiots are weeding themselves out of the herd. She probably intimidates those skinny jean, lumberjack fashion, bearded wussies. Good for her. A real man will appreciate her strength and sense of confident individuality.

And good job to you for raising a strong young woman! Proud father no doubt.

 

[BSK]

And good job to you for raising a strong young woman! Proud father no doubt.

Oh yes, very proud. And what I'm most thrilled with is she still wants to hunt with me. I guess for her that's part of the fun - to experience it together. I've been sitting right next to her when she shot all of her deer. Listening to her breathing getting ragged and feeling the whole 2-person ladder stand shaking from her adrenaline is too darn funny!