the fate of the Tennessee river system

[WTM]

the future looks bleak. zebra mussels, silver and big head carp and now the black carp. combine this with no till farming practices along the river and i fear the river and KY lake is going to be in real trouble in the near future. tim broadbent last year said that he didnt think that the carp problem had affected fish recruitment so far and they were trying to determine if they were successfully breeding on the KY side. well Tennesse tech has determined that they are successfully reproducing. jason sealock has successfully netted 6 inch carp that he thought were shad but later confirmed as silver carp on the north end of KY lake.

i hope im just being pesimistic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/scout.com/ ... 254525/Amp

https://www.fws.gov/southeast/articles/ ... the-water/

 

[bluball]

Agree,enjoy while you can,thats my opinion.

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[woodyard]

I have been reading about the carp and it doesn't look good. Their only control option seems to be to commercial fish them to a point to hold the population down. I don't see that ever working unless the gov subsidizes it some way to really make it worth while. It would take a bunch of netting to keep up with them. The TN River, the Ohio and MISS river systems cover a lot of area.

Probably will decimate the sport fish since the carp are competing with the baitfish. Where will the money come from then to fight the carp after that?

You would think that we would have learned a long time ago about importing things over here that reproduce. No one ever seems to think about the consequences of doing this stuff. We nearly wiped out our honey bee populations in the 1980s with varroa mites coming over on bees from sw Asia. We are still fighting them and suffering each year. We have brought all sorts of pests into this country from over seas.

 

[MickThompson]

...You would think that we would have learned a long time ago about importing things over here that reproduce. No one ever seems to think about the consequences of doing this stuff. We nearly wiped out our honey bee populations in the 1980s with varroa mites coming over on bees from sw Asia. We are still fighting them and suffering each year. We have brought all sorts of pests into this country from over seas.

You would think so, but if someone thinks they can make a buck or cut a corner, they'll try. Then it's left to someone else to clean up. Add privet, kudzu, ailanthus, and chestnut blight to your list.


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[Os2 Outdoors]

How is no till farming a negative? Wouldn't you thing less sedimentation would be best.

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[WTM]

How is no till farming a negative? Wouldn't you thing less sedimentation would be best.

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some species prefer clearer water while others thrive in turbid water. add in the fact that the runoff from plowed fields adds nutrients, micronutrients, fertilization, sediments, microcrustaceans, etc. and it has changed the dynamics of the lake.

clearer water is not a bad thing or negative, but water too clear can have affects to certain fish species. a couple of examples, the distribution of black vs white crappie on KY lake. 30 years ago the density favored whites by 80%, in the last 15 years, because of improved water turbidity, blacks dominate by like 70%. on some areas of the lake, yellow perch are now thriving. sauger is another species that is affected by lower turbidity. my guess is, based on other studies, cleaner water may be a part of the severe sauger decline. on the flip side walleye thrive in clear water.

at this point i dont think it really matters because of the amount of water silver carp and zebra mussels can filter in a days time.

 

[Os2 Outdoors]

How is no till farming a negative? Wouldn't you thing less sedimentation would be best.

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some species prefer clearer water while others thrive in turbid water. add in the fact that the runoff from plowed fields adds nutrients, micronutrients, fertilization, sediments, microcrustaceans, etc. and it has changed the dynamics of the lake.

clearer water is not a bad thing or negative, but water too clear can have affects to certain fish species. a couple of examples, the distribution of black vs white crappie on KY lake. 30 years ago the density favored whites by 80%, in the last 15 years, because of improved water turbidity, blacks dominate by like 70%. on some areas of the lake, yellow perch are now thriving. sauger is another species that is affected by lower turbidity. my guess is, based on other studies, cleaner water may be a part of the severe sauger decline. on the flip side walleye thrive in clear water.

at this point i dont think it really matters because of the amount of water silver carp and zebra mussels can filter in a days time.

If you think about it too it's original form it should be very clear with nothing but forest land surrounding it.

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[WTM]

maybe during pre-historic times before the Europeans, English and the Irish settled here. prior to TVA, there was constant flooding(imagine a water rise of 58ft), the land had been farmed so much that it was severely eroding, and all of the timber had been cut along the river.

do a search of old tennessee river pics prior to the TVA and you will see how dismal it looked.

 

[RUGER]

Very interesting for sure.
Sad too.

 

[Headhunter]

It is bad and will only get worse. A few of my friends have fished KY lake for many, many years. The baitfish are almost gone, they are saying they have not seen a school of baitfish in a couple years and they fish year round. I wish someone could post a pic or a video of schools of baitfish there. One of my friends who is a great crappie fisherman and has caught thousands of crappie out of KY lake, has not caught one keeping crappie there this year. I have heard the guides out of Birdsong can't find any crappie. One of the main problems with the carp is they eat what the baitfish eat, to the point the baitfish have nothing to eat and they die out. Google asian carp problems and it is for sure not good.

 

[RUGER]

Here is something else to wonder about.
My buddy at work is a VERY good bass fisherman and he fishes alot.
Two weekends ago he and his fishing partner were at KY lake and he was using a 4 1/2" swimbait of some kind and got a hit.
He set the hook and it was ON.
He quickly realized that he didn't have a bass because it was just too big. He was thinking a big catfish or possibly a drum.

He finally got it up and it was a bighead carp.
He said he told his buddy to get his phone out of the box and get a picture QUICK.
He said he could have just picked it up and put it in the boat but to be honest he didn't want the stinking thing in his boat.
In the process of trying to hold it close to the boat and get a picture the line broke before they could.
He said the hook was buried right in the roof of the fishes mouth just like it would have been with a bass.
Dunno if it was a fluke (pun not intended) or if the bighead ate the bait but without a doubt 100% positive the bait (and hook) was about 4 inches deep in it's mouth, stuck in the roof of it's mouth.

Makes me wonder if the algae, plankton or whatever is ALL they really do eat?

 

[WTM]

It is bad and will only get worse. A few of my friends have fished KY lake for many, many years. The baitfish are almost gone, they are saying they have not seen a school of baitfish in a couple years and they fish year round. I wish someone could post a pic or a video of schools of baitfish there. One of my friends who is a great crappie fisherman and has caught thousands of crappie out of KY lake, has not caught one keeping crappie there this year. I have heard the guides out of Birdsong can't find any crappie. One of the main problems with the carp is they eat what the baitfish eat, to the point the baitfish have nothing to eat and they die out. Google asian carp problems and it is for sure not good.

the crappie have bad spawn years and good spawn years. we are kind of in between this year. the problem with crappie, if it really is a problem, is species distribution. like i said above, for the last 15 years the black crappie have outnumbered the whites by 70% or so. the whites have made somewhat of a comeback in the last few years.

the problem is crappie fisherman are not making the change in tactics to catch more of the blacks. wait a minute, arent they the same? nope. i see it every year on Birdsong. the same guys spider rigging or single pole jigging over the channel break on brush piles or over the flats chasing white crappie. there chances of catching black crappie are nill to none. the way i compare whites to blacks is that whites are more like largemouths and blacks are more like smallmouths. if you have bass fished for either then you will know the comparison. ive had some tell me that the blacks are more on the south side but ive caught them in numbers all the way up to big sandy. bass bay and danville is another hot spot. the KY biologists are the ones that found more blacks on the KY side. garry mason and steve shelton catches them in good numbers on big and west sandy prong.

you are right about the shad at least for the last 2 years that ive noticed, but cold winters and ice will kill them in great numbers. according to tim broadbent, the trap net surveys last fall showed average numbers of shad. my guess is a hard winter kill. the beauty of black crappie is they dont depend on shad as they eat more bugs and larvae. white crappie will do the same if low shad is available. have you ever cut open a white crappies crawl in the winter and its full of black stuff? bugs.

paul rister and ryan oster said something years ago in their study that made me think, they basically said until crappie fishermen change their mindset and tactics they will continue to have a hard time.

 

[WTM]

Here is something else to wonder about.
My buddy at work is a VERY good bass fisherman and he fishes alot.
Two weekends ago he and his fishing partner were at KY lake and he was using a 4 1/2" swimbait of some kind and got a hit.
He set the hook and it was ON.
He quickly realized that he didn't have a bass because it was just too big. He was thinking a big catfish or possibly a drum.

He finally got it up and it was a bighead carp.
He said he told his buddy to get his phone out of the box and get a picture QUICK.
He said he could have just picked it up and put it in the boat but to be honest he didn't want the stinking thing in his boat.
In the process of trying to hold it close to the boat and get a picture the line broke before they could.
He said the hook was buried right in the roof of the fishes mouth just like it would have been with a bass.
Dunno if it was a fluke (pun not intended) or if the bighead ate the bait but without a doubt 100% positive the bait (and hook) was about 4 inches deep in it's mouth, stuck in the roof of it's mouth.

Makes me wonder if the algae, plankton or whatever is ALL they really do eat?

there are videos on youtube of them catching them at the dams vertical jigging and hooking them in the top of the mouth. wuite possible by accident if a large school passed under, but indont know. you ever seen their teef in their throats, nasty looking. black carp supposedly have molar teef like humans to crack mussels and snails.

 

[RUGER]

Here is something else to wonder about.
My buddy at work is a VERY good bass fisherman and he fishes alot.
Two weekends ago he and his fishing partner were at KY lake and he was using a 4 1/2" swimbait of some kind and got a hit.
He set the hook and it was ON.
He quickly realized that he didn't have a bass because it was just too big. He was thinking a big catfish or possibly a drum.

He finally got it up and it was a bighead carp.
He said he told his buddy to get his phone out of the box and get a picture QUICK.
He said he could have just picked it up and put it in the boat but to be honest he didn't want the stinking thing in his boat.
In the process of trying to hold it close to the boat and get a picture the line broke before they could.
He said the hook was buried right in the roof of the fishes mouth just like it would have been with a bass.
Dunno if it was a fluke (pun not intended) or if the bighead ate the bait but without a doubt 100% positive the bait (and hook) was about 4 inches deep in it's mouth, stuck in the roof of it's mouth.

Makes me wonder if the algae, plankton or whatever is ALL they really do eat?

there are videos on youtube of them catching them at the dams vertical jigging and hooking them in the top of the mouth. wuite possible by accident if a large school passed under, but indont know. you ever seen their teef in their throats, nasty looking. black carp supposedly have molar teef like humans to crack mussels and snails.

Yep, pretty wild.
If they do eat small fish that would help to explain why the problem is so bad also though.
Dunno, wish they weren't here I know that.

 

[Headhunter]

It is bad and will only get worse. A few of my friends have fished KY lake for many, many years. The baitfish are almost gone, they are saying they have not seen a school of baitfish in a couple years and they fish year round. I wish someone could post a pic or a video of schools of baitfish there. One of my friends who is a great crappie fisherman and has caught thousands of crappie out of KY lake, has not caught one keeping crappie there this year. I have heard the guides out of Birdsong can't find any crappie. One of the main problems with the carp is they eat what the baitfish eat, to the point the baitfish have nothing to eat and they die out. Google asian carp problems and it is for sure not good.

the crappie have bad spawn years and good spawn years. we are kind of in between this year. the problem with crappie, if it really is a problem, is species distribution. like i said above, for the last 15 years the black crappie have outnumbered the whites by 70% or so. the whites have made somewhat of a comeback in the last few years.

the problem is crappie fisherman are not making the change in tactics to catch more of the blacks. wait a minute, arent they the same? nope. i see it every year on Birdsong. the same guys spider rigging or single pole jigging over the channel break on brush piles or over the flats chasing white crappie. there chances of catching black crappie are nill to none. the way i compare whites to blacks is that whites are more like largemouths and blacks are more like smallmouths. if you have bass fished for either then you will know the comparison. ive had some tell me that the blacks are more on the south side but ive caught them in numbers all the way up to big sandy. bass bay and danville is another hot spot. the KY biologists are the ones that found more blacks on the KY side. garry mason and steve shelton catches them in good numbers on big and west sandy prong.

you are right about the shad at least for the last 2 years that ive noticed, but cold winters and ice will kill them in great numbers. according to tim broadbent, the trap net surveys last fall showed average numbers of shad. my guess is a hard winter kill. the beauty of black crappie is they dont depend on shad as they eat more bugs and larvae. white crappie will do the same if low shad is available. have you ever cut open a white crappies crawl in the winter and its full of black stuff? bugs.

paul rister and ryan oster said something years ago in their study that made me think, they basically said until crappie fishermen change their mindset and tactics they will continue to have a hard time.

I agree, but there seems to be a problem at KY lake. I was recently told that there was a shock survey a month ago and not ONE crappie was shocked up, ZERO. There should have been at least one, I think? The lack of shad may change the fishing somewhat, but at least one crappie should be caught. I know of MANY fisherman who cannot even catch a crappie, not even a little one. I have not fished for crappie there, but something is not right and hopefully it is a population cycle thing.

 

[bluball]

It is bad and will only get worse. A few of my friends have fished KY lake for many, many years. The baitfish are almost gone, they are saying they have not seen a school of baitfish in a couple years and they fish year round. I wish someone could post a pic or a video of schools of baitfish there. One of my friends who is a great crappie fisherman and has caught thousands of crappie out of KY lake, has not caught one keeping crappie there this year. I have heard the guides out of Birdsong can't find any crappie. One of the main problems with the carp is they eat what the baitfish eat, to the point the baitfish have nothing to eat and they die out. Google asian carp problems and it is for sure not good.

the crappie have bad spawn years and good spawn years. we are kind of in between this year. the problem with crappie, if it really is a problem, is species distribution. like i said above, for the last 15 years the black crappie have outnumbered the whites by 70% or so. the whites have made somewhat of a comeback in the last few years.

the problem is crappie fisherman are not making the change in tactics to catch more of the blacks. wait a minute, arent they the same? nope. i see it every year on Birdsong. the same guys spider rigging or single pole jigging over the channel break on brush piles or over the flats chasing white crappie. there chances of catching black crappie are nill to none. the way i compare whites to blacks is that whites are more like largemouths and blacks are more like smallmouths. if you have bass fished for either then you will know the comparison. ive had some tell me that the blacks are more on the south side but ive caught them in numbers all the way up to big sandy. bass bay and danville is another hot spot. the KY biologists are the ones that found more blacks on the KY side. garry mason and steve shelton catches them in good numbers on big and west sandy prong.

you are right about the shad at least for the last 2 years that ive noticed, but cold winters and ice will kill them in great numbers. according to tim broadbent, the trap net surveys last fall showed average numbers of shad. my guess is a hard winter kill. the beauty of black crappie is they dont depend on shad as they eat more bugs and larvae. white crappie will do the same if low shad is available. have you ever cut open a white crappies crawl in the winter and its full of black stuff? bugs.

paul rister and ryan oster said something years ago in their study that made me think, they basically said until crappie fishermen change their mindset and tactics they will continue to have a hard time.

I agree, but there seems to be a problem at KY lake. I was recently told that there was a shock survey a month ago and not ONE crappie was shocked up, ZERO. There should have been at least one, I think? The lack of shad may change the fishing somewhat, but at least one crappie should be caught. I know of MANY fisherman who cannot even catch a crappie, not even a little one. I have not fished for crappie there, but something is not right and hopefully it is a population cycle thing.

I heard the same thing about shocking and not getting a crappie in one local creek.People are catching a few there from what i hear.I caught one last sunday that had a shad half way swallowed,still bit my minnow.It was the healthiest looking fish i have caught a month.

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[WTM]

which creek? i have yet to find any data info on fish surveys by the TWRA. TVA quit doing broad electro shocking surveys in 2015. they need to be more like KY fish and game and put all of their info in an easy to get to format.

 

[scn]

You are right and I love this river. I am 54 years old. First time I was on it I was 6 weeks old. Once again the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency and the Tennessee Wildlife Resource Commission has failed us. But they are stocking sturgeon. Scratch your head unless the sturgeon are going to eat all the carp.

Curious on your take on just how TWRA and the TFWC have failed TN fishermen?

 

[scn]

I should not respond to any of your posts. You are a moderator and refuse to not defend the people who have something bad to say about either agency. There are numerous examples to the fisheries problems they have not addressed until it is too late. Sauger are a prime example. You sir are laughable in your continuous defense of them and anytime someone has something negative to say about them. Obviously, you are politically connected to them and have hopes of further employment or appointments. I do not think you should be allowed to respond or be a moderator if you continue to defend them the way you do in a public forum. Appropriate more money to help with the Asian Carp problem before it is too late. Very simple and obvious answer to your question. But it may already be too late. I have PMs that show your defense of them. You say I attack you personally but that is not it at all. You personally attack anyone who has anything bad to say about the TWRA or the TWRC. That is fine but if you want to do that, don't be a moderator. Forums like this are for people to discuss their opinions. You have deleted threads in the past I have responded in. That is wrong. Makes other folks not want to post similar opinions. Delete this one and my right to post if you wish. I don't care.

You are WAY off on your personal accusations again. I am not politically connected to either group, and am past the age where I can serve with the agency. I'm not interested in other positions outside of the law enforcement. So, wrong again. But, I'm sure it won't be your last personal attack.

I challenge you to find one wildlife agency in the country that has successfully dealt with the Asian Carp problem. Throwing money against an unsolvable problem isn't a wise use of money. To say that TWRA and/or the Commission has failed in that is ludicrous.

I told you a couple of weeks ago that I will respond if and when I feel like either the agency or the commission is targeted with a totally unfounded accusation. I feel like I have earned the right to do so by being a license holder in this state for 50 years, and serving with the agency for almost 40. If you don't like me doing so, take your complaint to Ruger. He can turn off my moderator status any time he so wishes. Until my posting privileges on TNdeer are turned off and I am banned, when folks make dumbazz statements, I will continue to point out how stupid they (the statements) are.

 

[Spurhunter]

Y'all are experiencing what we experienced a few years ago on the far west side. The asian carp killed our fisheries on the Mississippi River in no time flat. Oxbows that used to be excellent producers of bass and crappie are dead. Dacus, Island 40, Cold Creek, Chisolm Lake, Tunica, Brandywine, etc., etc., etc. have been heavily impacted or completely destroyed. I don't have the answer but somebody has to find a way to kill them out.