catman529
Well-Known Member
This year we killed 31,448 birds statewide. Only 12.9% were jakes. If the limit had been reduced to three this year, that would have saved 980 birds or 3.1% of the total harvest (even less of the total male population). If the limit was 2, that would have saved 9.2% of the total harvest.
So who here thinks that killing 9 percent of breeding males from the population, after peak breeding, is a legitimate contributing factor to the statewide decline? Who thinks that cutting the limit back to 2 will actually make a noticeable difference? Now before you say that you know of a farm where X amount of hunters kill multiple birds each every year and have decimated the turkeys, keep in mind that the number of hunters on a parcel of private land is largely out of TWRA's control, and that is the responsibility of the landowner and the people who overhunt the property to limit what they kill, not the statewide bag limit.
Here's what I'm thinking... And if you asked me this 2 years ago, I would never have said it - we might need to cut back or even close the fall season for a few years. I'd like to be able to kill just 1 bird in the fall - a 1 bearded bird limit in October would be ok with me. But the hens do need a break in a lot of areas. Maybe we can close it for a few years and open up a much more restricted either sex season once numbers are back up to what they should be. I still know places where I see enough turkeys I would still shoot a hen for thanksgiving and not feel bad about it. But I also won't complain if they have to close the fall season for a while to help the state as a whole.
Another problem I've noticed is that different parts of the state fluctuate so badly that a fixed limit in the spring pretty much doesn't work. I've seen it suggested here that areas south of hwy 64 need to be shut down for a few years, and a lot of west TN has never had really good numbers. But most other areas that aren't suffering and aren't pounded by hunters (I will bring up public land in a minute) can do perfectly fine with a 4-bird limit. Most people don't even kill 3 as the data shows.
Outlaw decoys to save birds? You may know some guys who sit behind Pretty Boy and kill 4 birds each every year on the same farm, but does that represent TN turkey hunters as a whole? So many more people sit by the decoys and see nothing, or watch turkeys run away from the dekes, and many don't have enough time to hunt and tag out, and I'd be willing to bet that the diehard run-and-gunners kill more limits than people who only use decoys.
Now public land...I've started seeing the intense pressure more this year than ever. A few things are to blame - turning several hundred acres of WMA over to the city, people coming up from southern middle TN counties, and people talking about their success on WMA X Y and Z on the Internet (I am guilty of that). Also magazines telling you where are good places to hunt our state.
I might be willing to go down to a 2 bird WMA limit, and would definitely like increased nonresident WMA fees. I'm not sure if changing the bag limit on WMAs would make any more difference than statewide though - perhaps the success rate past 2 birds is much lower on public land - so maybe the issue is in too many hunters on one area, and making it cost a lot more for tourists might help. if a WMA gets hunted so hard that turkey population suffers, then first close all fall and hen hunting and then consider restricting the WMA in question. The only limit I'd see making a difference would be a 1 bird limit and/or making it quota instead of statewide.
Also, you should never mention the WMA or even the county if you do mention killing a public land turkey or deer on the Internet. I have all but quit saying anything more than I kill one occasionally on public land. It's not worth bragging about only to see tags from many different states sitting in the parking spots of your favorite hunting grounds. Keep your hunting spots to yourself, I wish I didn't have to learn this the hard way.
Back to the statewide decline...does anyone else agree with me that the fall/hen hunting and other non-bag-limit issues pose a much more significant problem than a 4 bird over a 2 or 3 bird limit? Also the fixed spring limit. The statewide turkey flock is anything but consistent and I don't see how one size can fit all. Keep the spring limit at 4 but address certain counties and cut their spring limits way back, if that is practical for the agency to do. I'd hate to be cut back legally to only killing 2 toms if it's not even saving 10 percent of the breeding males in the whole state, after peak breeding is through.
Sent from the talk of tap
So who here thinks that killing 9 percent of breeding males from the population, after peak breeding, is a legitimate contributing factor to the statewide decline? Who thinks that cutting the limit back to 2 will actually make a noticeable difference? Now before you say that you know of a farm where X amount of hunters kill multiple birds each every year and have decimated the turkeys, keep in mind that the number of hunters on a parcel of private land is largely out of TWRA's control, and that is the responsibility of the landowner and the people who overhunt the property to limit what they kill, not the statewide bag limit.
Here's what I'm thinking... And if you asked me this 2 years ago, I would never have said it - we might need to cut back or even close the fall season for a few years. I'd like to be able to kill just 1 bird in the fall - a 1 bearded bird limit in October would be ok with me. But the hens do need a break in a lot of areas. Maybe we can close it for a few years and open up a much more restricted either sex season once numbers are back up to what they should be. I still know places where I see enough turkeys I would still shoot a hen for thanksgiving and not feel bad about it. But I also won't complain if they have to close the fall season for a while to help the state as a whole.
Another problem I've noticed is that different parts of the state fluctuate so badly that a fixed limit in the spring pretty much doesn't work. I've seen it suggested here that areas south of hwy 64 need to be shut down for a few years, and a lot of west TN has never had really good numbers. But most other areas that aren't suffering and aren't pounded by hunters (I will bring up public land in a minute) can do perfectly fine with a 4-bird limit. Most people don't even kill 3 as the data shows.
Outlaw decoys to save birds? You may know some guys who sit behind Pretty Boy and kill 4 birds each every year on the same farm, but does that represent TN turkey hunters as a whole? So many more people sit by the decoys and see nothing, or watch turkeys run away from the dekes, and many don't have enough time to hunt and tag out, and I'd be willing to bet that the diehard run-and-gunners kill more limits than people who only use decoys.
Now public land...I've started seeing the intense pressure more this year than ever. A few things are to blame - turning several hundred acres of WMA over to the city, people coming up from southern middle TN counties, and people talking about their success on WMA X Y and Z on the Internet (I am guilty of that). Also magazines telling you where are good places to hunt our state.
I might be willing to go down to a 2 bird WMA limit, and would definitely like increased nonresident WMA fees. I'm not sure if changing the bag limit on WMAs would make any more difference than statewide though - perhaps the success rate past 2 birds is much lower on public land - so maybe the issue is in too many hunters on one area, and making it cost a lot more for tourists might help. if a WMA gets hunted so hard that turkey population suffers, then first close all fall and hen hunting and then consider restricting the WMA in question. The only limit I'd see making a difference would be a 1 bird limit and/or making it quota instead of statewide.
Also, you should never mention the WMA or even the county if you do mention killing a public land turkey or deer on the Internet. I have all but quit saying anything more than I kill one occasionally on public land. It's not worth bragging about only to see tags from many different states sitting in the parking spots of your favorite hunting grounds. Keep your hunting spots to yourself, I wish I didn't have to learn this the hard way.
Back to the statewide decline...does anyone else agree with me that the fall/hen hunting and other non-bag-limit issues pose a much more significant problem than a 4 bird over a 2 or 3 bird limit? Also the fixed spring limit. The statewide turkey flock is anything but consistent and I don't see how one size can fit all. Keep the spring limit at 4 but address certain counties and cut their spring limits way back, if that is practical for the agency to do. I'd hate to be cut back legally to only killing 2 toms if it's not even saving 10 percent of the breeding males in the whole state, after peak breeding is through.
Sent from the talk of tap
