Turkey ammo ads...

[Bone Collector]

Sometimes I see ads in hunting magazines and on TV shows and think that is pretty irresponsible to make hunters think they can shoot birds at 75-80 yds. This ad isn't saying that in print, but it pretty much is saying that. The issue I had with it is it in the NWTF magazine "Turkey Country". I expect TV shows to run ads and I expect magazines to run ads for money, but I would think the NWTF would not run an add like this.

The diagram If you can't see it, shows the three types of Federal ammo. In the diagram it shows the first two types hitting a turkey at 40 yds, while the TSS shell is hitting a turkey at 50, but the line goes out beyond that. No wonder birds get crippled yearly.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I had the same thoughts when I opened my NWTF magazine yesterday

 

[TheLBLman]

Sometimes I see ads in hunting magazines and on TV shows and think that is pretty irresponsible to make hunters think they can shoot birds at 75-80 yds. . . . . . . . The issue I had with it is it in the NWTF magazine "Turkey Country".
I would think the NWTF would not run an add like this.

No wonder birds get crippled yearly.

Yep, seems a bit hypocritical, anything for a dollar?

All it takes is a single pellet in a birds gut,
for that bird to die (unknown to the shooter) a few days later.
I suspect these particular mortality losses have been increasing exponentially
and may be contributing significantly to the downward trend in turkey populations.

By the way, I've had similar "ethics" issues with the Quality Whitetails magazine put out by the Quality Deer Management Association. I totally embrace the concept "quality" deer management (as originally described) but their pages of ads make it seem more like the QDMA has become more about high-end "trophy" management and the selling of trophy "management" products.

In all fairness, neither the NWTF nor the QDMA are doing any worse (regarding advertising ethics) than any other hunting/fishing magazine.
It's just that I would have thought they might have been above the fray.

I'll still recommend Quality Whitetails & Turkey Country for their better content,
as believe most other hunting magazines are mostly about selling gimmicks,
and tend to be written by professional writers who are only amateurs about what they write.

 

[Bone Collector]

In all fairness, neither the NWTF nor the QDMA are doing any worse (regarding advertising ethics) than any other hunting/fishing magazine.
It's just that I would have thought they might have been above the fray.

I'll still recommend Quality Whitetails & Turkey Country for their better content,
as believe most other hunting magazines are mostly about selling gimmicks,
and tend to be written by professional writers who are only amateurs about what they write.

I agree 100 % with all this. I was just kinda shocked.


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[TheLBLman]

At the same time, perhaps hunters like myself are also being a bit hypocritical
as I personally turkey hunt with the Federal TSS turkey loads.

 

[Displaced_Vol]

I've thought this also-
As to NWTF's role, (and I realize the magazine is only one small component) I don't think you'll find many folks in the print game turning down any ad revenue this day in age, so I am sure they don't want to bite the hand that feeds.
It's obvious to most that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Not obvious to all though and somebody needs to make that known too.

 

[megalomaniac]

At the same time, perhaps hunters like myself are also being a bit hypocritical
as I personally turkey hunt with the Federal TSS turkey loads.

Hmmm... I don't think so. Using TSS 40y and in makes you a MORE ethical hunter. WAY fewer birds lost due to holes in your pattern compared to larger lead shot. Like you said, many 'misses' aren't really misses. And that bird just goes off to die later, and the hunter keeps punching tags. Somebody in TN tagging 4 birds and a couple 'misses' during the course of the season may have actually killed 6.

As I've said before, we switched to #9 TSS in the 20g 3 seasons ago. Me and my kids have now taken 20 birds cleanly in the past 3 seasons. 1 cripple (Ethan shot a barbwire fence 2 ft from the end if the barrel 2y ago), 1 clean miss for me this year at 25 yards (I shot way high on that bird), and another 'miss' for me at 35 yards. I'm now thinking that last 'miss' wasn't.... that bird hasn't left a track or made a peep since then, and I've checked for him several times. As bad as I feel about it, I still feel I'm hunting with equipment that is the most ethical for a clean kill, while minimizing wounding losses.

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[tickweed]

Being very old school, the sport of turkey hunting is nothing like it was when l started back in the early seventies. Back then, you called the bird in to you. 35 yds or less. Just take a rifle. Might as well. It's all about just killing.

 

[megalomaniac]

But the flipside is assuming TSS will reliably kill beyond 50 yards. Sure the penetration and KE is there to do the job, but you have to do a lot of practicing and patterning to compensate for shot drop...

But just defeats the whole purpose of turkey hunting. If you shot at every bird that got to 75 yards, what challenge would it be?

My rule of thumb is I won't shoot unless I can distinctly see the eye. I'm blessed with very good eyesight, and that about works exactly to the 40y mark for me personally.

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[megalomaniac]

Being very old school, the sport of turkey hunting is nothing like it was when l started back in the early seventies. Back then, you called the bird in to you. 35 yds or less. Just take a rifle. Might as well. It's all about just killing.

There's a lot of truth to that....

But the flipside is i personally 'missed' a ton of birds at 35 yards back in the late 80s and early 90s when I was shooting my old 1187 with 3in #4 lead. In fact, about half the birds I shot ran off if they were 30 to 35 yards. I 'missed' 3 in a row one spring, and thats what made me change to the 10g. I didn't have any trouble with misses after that, but I just don't have it in me any longer to tote that 11lb gun as far as I walk in a day

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[Remington700]

I have witnessed 2 public land birds shot at over 40 yards from across a field. Both toms flew off after the shot. I believe all the TSS hype has people shooting at much longer distances. The company's are promoting this as well. I have a hard time shooting past 40. My daughter hunts with me and I won't let her shoot past 30 right now. I would rather a turkey live for me to hunt another day than wound or leave him to die in the woods. I know there are plenty of people who kill them at 40 plus yards. Just not how I was brought up hunting.

 

[TheLBLman]

Being very old school, the sport of turkey hunting is nothing like it was when l started back in the early seventies. Back then, you called the bird in to you. 35 yds or less. Just take a rifle. Might as well. It's all about just killing.

I had a similar beginning in turkey hunting.
My first longbeard was killed with a 16 ga Fox side-by-side,
and I killed several turkeys with three different 16 ga shotguns,
none of which had a pattern (by today's standards) that would consistently kill a turkey beyond 35 yds.

When I acquired my very first "dedicated" turkey gun, that purchase preceded all the after-market "turkey" chokes. My choice was a very special (lightweight) side-by-side factory bored "full" & "extra full", and back-bored for better pattern uniformity. This was a 12 ga with 2 3/4" chambers, and my "go to" turkey shells were Winchester "baby" magnums with 1 1/2 oz #5 lead. This was a true 40-yd turkey gun, but 40 yds was about it, and never shot at a turkey with it if I thought he was beyond about 40 yds.

I don't recall ever losing but two birds with it, and both were later believed to have been between 45 & 50 yds. I did kill several between 41 & 46 yds (stepped off). This was before I ever owned a rangefinder, which I find very useful today, and making for even less excuse to be shooting at birds out of range.

Over about 15 yrs with that gun, I'd guess the average kill was about 25 yds, with at least a third of them taken under 20 yds. Actually used to let them get too close. Remember one bird I lost because he came in to no more than 4 feet, and before I shot, he flew, and I never fired.

The only reason I stopped turkey hunting with that 2 3/4" chambered side-by-side was because I needed to go to an optical sight due to aging eyes.

 

[elknturkey]

No outdoor company is doing the right thing for hunting as a whole. It's all about marketing and making that money. Even hunting organizations like the nwtf that started out to do good things for conservation. Didn't the old Winchester extended range have like a 50 yard range on the box or am I thinking of something different. I know it wasn't tss that first stated it

 

[Setterman]

No outdoor company is doing the right thing for hunting as a whole. It's all about marketing and making that money. Even hunting organizations like the nwtf that started out to do good things for conservation. Didn't the old Winchester extended range have like a 50 yard range on the box or am I thinking of something different. I know it wasn't tss that first stated it

They're doing what draws the most customers. Most turkey hunters own aren't turkey hunters as we know them.

They're lazy, they're unskilled, and all they want is to kill whatever it takes with doing as little work as possible.

The companies are just catering to the masses of these unskilled, lazy hunters.

Take away decoys, blinds, long rage shooting and make these googans actually call a bird inside 30 yards and they'd kill zero. Luckily they'd quit the sport, our populations rebound, and the real hunters could have fun again.

I switched to TSS a week or so ago, but settled on a factory modified tube. My max distance is around 35 yards.

It's not the shot it's the googans wanting everything easy

 

[Newt]

No outdoor company is doing the right thing for hunting as a whole. It's all about marketing and making that money. Even hunting organizations like the nwtf that started out to do good things for conservation. Didn't the old Winchester extended range have like a 50 yard range on the box or am I thinking of something different. I know it wasn't tss that first stated it

They're doing what draws the most customers. Most turkey hunters own aren't turkey hunters as we know them.

They're lazy, they're unskilled, and all they want is to kill whatever it takes with doing as little work as possible.

The companies are just catering to the masses of these unskilled, lazy hunters.

Take away decoys, blinds, long rage shooting and make these googans actually call a bird inside 30 yards and they'd kill zero. Luckily they'd quit the sport, our populations rebound, and the real hunters could have fun again.

I switched to TSS a week or so ago, but settled on a factory modified tube. My max distance is around 35 yards.

It's not the shot it's the googans wanting everything easy

Exactly Setterman pure knowledge spoken here as always it might step on some folks toes but it's just the truth

 

[TheLBLman]

I switched to TSS a week or so ago, but settled on a factory modified tube. My max distance is around 35 yards.

Very smart to just use the TSS to increase the diameter of your pattern,
while not sacrificing pattern density!
Makes it much easier NOT to miss a close up bird!

You may still find, even with the more open choke, you likely still have a 40-yd-plus turkey gun.

 

[Bone Collector]

At the same time, perhaps hunters like myself are also being a bit hypocritical
as I personally turkey hunt with the Federal TSS turkey loads.

So do I, but it is not hypocritical unless you are out there taking 80 yd shots. My nephew is new to the sport. He is hunting right now. I told him I shot TSS and you know what he said, "You can probably shoot a turkey at 80 yds.".... I told NO the H$%L I can't and he shouldn't either. I admitted to him with new choke and shell technology, knowing how your gun patterns, being able to get a good rest, and making sure he had a clear shot (Maybe in a field) 50 yds should be the absolute max he should ever shoot, but he should try to get them inside 40 yds. I told him inside 40 the 3.5" LB XR shells he is shooting will knock the life right out of a turkey if he does his part. I told him 50 should never be the goal and should only be looked at as a last resort (He's 15, he's going to shoot).

Issue is lots of guys in the woods this year. A lot of them are just getting into it and think 80 yds is good to go with the right set up. Whats worse is over on FB they are bragging about 60-80 yd shots all day and admitting they may have gotten lucky, but oh well, I'll take the shot again if I get it.

One of them doing it, used to be a regular on here.

 

[deerfever]

TSS is not the problem at all but the ad shouldn't show 50, you can't fault a man for wanting a better pattern in his gun. People are the problem they try ridiculous shots wether it be TSS, Longbeards or copper plated lead! I shoot all 20 gauge shotguns and you can go see my patterns in the sub forum. I never shoot over 40 yards , I sometimes to a fault wait too long for that perfect shot but that is ok with me ( had some putt and run over the years). I use a .575 Carlson choke tube and have been told several times you can get that tighter! I don't want it tighter! I am not shooting past 40 yards at the max and that is rare, if you look and see any of my patterns that aren't killing at that distance and in , then I would consider changing. I think a big mistake some people make is going too tight with the pattern when there is no point at proper shooting distances but that is up to each individual and just my personal opinion.

 

[ROVERBOY]

I agree some of the ammo on the market can definitely get you in trouble. TSS especially, even Longbeard XR will shoot tight on out there. I've killed a couple birds with Longbeards, that were further than I thought. I may've got lucky.

 

[drake799]

Tss is awesome but it's give way too many false sense of range. There are A Lot of people that have the mentality that if I can get to 80 of a turkey I can kill it lol And you know what you probably can. If you make a perfect shot..... very little wiggle room at that range to be off. If you had a rock solid rest with a optic you'd stand a good chance at killing a bird that far if you knew your gun. But being outta breath from crawling behind a decoy across a field or having "turkey fever" is not a optimal shot lol. Idk how people shoot that far. 50 yards looks like a mile to me. Can't imagine seeing a gobbler at 60,70,80 and thinkin. Yeah I can kill him