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Turkey Decline in SM Tn

poorhunter":3esrc6o5 said:
Good habitat can (I think) support 1 bird killed per 150 acres...4000acres/26kills.
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Yea in a perfect world were they raise enough to support the population. 2 bad hatches and your screwed. I can show you hundreds of thousands of acres of perfect habitat that doesn't have 42 birds on it all together. They are simply just gone and it took a year to do it. But people weren't killing every dang gobbler they seen either.
 
I don't believe there is 4000 acres in tennessee that can support that kind of harvest year after year after year without a noticeable decline there are to many factors at play.
 
Rockhound":3ow5r1z0 said:
I don't believe there is 4000 acres in tennessee that can support that kind of harvest year after year after year without a noticeable decline there are to many factors at play.
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I'd have to know more about "this" 4000 acres, but I do believe hunters greatly fail to understand how much both deer and turkeys move around OFF their hunting areas, even when you have 4000 acres.

I suspect that with many or most 4000 acre tracts, the majority of the birds do not exclusively live within the boundaries. Even with relatively large tracts, the deer/turkey "management" can be more effected by what's happening around the tract than within it. There may have been even more turkey hunting around this tract than within it.
 
I know of a fine hunting club in west TN that annually kills 25-30 male birds and it is 18,000 acres. I can't imagine burning 25+ on a 4,000 acre tract and expecting it to not have some negative impact over the years to come. Turkey hunting and localized turkey populations are kind of like a savings account, if you take from it in small doses it will always serve you, but if you drain it overnight, it most likely won't serve it's intended purpose very long. As volatile and cumbersome as turkey population dynamics are, I'd not recommend much more than a bird every 300-400 acres or so to guarantee a sustainable resource over the years to come. Some areas can exceed this, but most areas cannot over time.
 
LBL has less than 100 birds killed annually on 175,000 acres and people say birds not there like they used to be.......Just an example for comparison. 15/year on 4000 acres and you better be having some great hatches. Honestly I'd say a couple great hatches are the reason you were able to kill 26 in one year to start with....I think I would change my management plan.
 
Roost 1":161ys5cu said:
I think I would change my management plan.
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Ditto, especially if you are managing for a renewable resource over the years to come (e.g. you plan to continue to hunt the same property and have an enjoyable experience).
 
Haven't noticed what I feel is a decline in flock in my areas I'm more east tn but when I hunt middle tn they are just as many as I remembered last yr. Season is odd to me weekends have fluctuated from several birds gobbling in roosting areas then the next weekend hardly nothing?

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Thanks for the offer, but I was mainly just messing with you. If I were closer to you, I'd definitely have you put me on the list. Thanks again for the offer and good luck with #4.
 
Rockhound":3kxu8prm said:
poorhunter":3kxu8prm said:
Good habitat can (I think) support 1 bird killed per 150 acres...4000acres/26kills.
Click to expand...

Yea in a perfect world were they raise enough to support the population. 2 bad hatches and your screwed. I can show you hundreds of thousands of acres of perfect habitat that doesn't have 42 birds on it all together. They are simply just gone and it took a year to do it. But people weren't killing every dang gobbler they seen either.
Click to expand...


In good habitat you can expect 1 turkey for every 40 acres. So, on 4000, and the population ratio is 60% hens and 40% male, you should have 40 males. In a good hatch year you would want 25% of that male population in jakes, so that's 10 jakes. Leaving 30 mature males. This assumes good habitat and and standard hatches.
So, 26 in one year, that may have been a above average hatch the years prior, and not much pressure from neighboring properties, is not bad. But as Rockhound pointed out, 2 bad hatches and your harvest of 15 per spring on 4000, and you just wiped out those 30 mature birds, with no hatch recovery. You are now relying on neighboring property hatches to rebuild your flock with that less pressure. Bug if it has equal or more pressure, your done.
This is why harvest data is useless! Brood surveys are the only way to control the wild turkey population. And it's biting some areas in the azz.
 
I'm glad this thread is getting a little mileage because at least that means people are thinking about it. The link below is to a 2014 study that was completed on wild turkey population decline in the southeast. It's a little long but worth perusing to better understand and manage the resource. It contains brood, harvest, hunter success, survival estimates...a lot of the things we've been discussing the last couple of years.

http://ncnwtf.com/myJSSImages/file/SEWT ... 202014.pdf
 
I read an article this weekend where the head of Alabama's Fish and Widllife said he had no idea if there are more turkeys in AL now than in 1980.
Don't these agencies do counts? I realize they aren't totally accurate, but still, I would think you would know if you had more turkeys 36 years ago than right now.
 
My question wasn't about how many birds me or anyone else should kill on their property. My question was if you have seen any disease in your flocks of birds that look like this? Dark blue or black head, yellow feet and legs, rotting of the feet.





 
Mule deer":3q46msh8 said:
My question was if you have seen any disease in your flocks of birds that look like this? Dark blue or black head, yellow feet and legs, rotting of the feet.
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No I have not. You have any pictures of the rotting feet?
 

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