Turkey Limits

[TheLBLman]

Can anyone tell me what year TN went to a statewide 4-bird spring limit?

Can anyone tell me what year TN went to a statewide 3-bird spring limit (from the prior 2-bird limit)?

Personally, I experienced overall better turkey hunting back when we had a 2-bird limit, but maybe that was just happenstance having more to do with other factors than the turkey limit. I'm attempting to analyze some of those factors, and not just assume it's all about the spring turkey limits.

Year to year, it seems to be a crap shoot, as some years I seem very lucky, while turkey hunting friends seem very unlucky; then other years (like this one so far), I seem very unlucky, while other friends are having a good season, even in the same or nearby areas. A couple friends even limited out with 8 birds during the first 8 days. Other friends believe that couple who killed the 8 essentially killed too many, ruining the hunting for the rest of us on a 3,000-plus-acre tract. So far, this has been one of the worst turkey seasons for me in a long time. I've heard the least gobbling, perhaps ever, relative to the days (and those dates) I've spent hunting. Never mind, I'm absolutely positive there are more turkeys in most of the areas I've been hunting than last year, and I believe more last year than the year prior.

Anyone else finding "feast or famine" on the quality of their turkey hunts, year to year, even counter to there being more turkeys?

When I say "feast or famine", not talking just about "kills", but as much about what is heard and seen.
So far this season, I have not heard much, not seen much, never mind observations immediately pre-season indicated plenty of turkeys, and I've even seen proof of them when I wasn't hunting (from both trail cam pics and direct observation), including 3 longbeards in the immediate area where my two buddies killed their 8 AFTER they quit hunting.

Again, in most of the areas I've been hunting, there appears to be more turkeys this spring than last year, and more last year than the prior year. Never mind, the first week of the 2014 season was one of my best ever, when I and a hunting partner not only together killed 7 longbeards in less than a week, but saw and heard an incredible amount of gobbling and strutting. Basically just the opposite the first couple weeks of this year, and with that same hunting partner, neither of us has killed even a single bird. We have passed up several jakes, and I've chosen not to shoot on a couple longbeards I probably could have killed, but didn't get a good head shot.

Would we be better off with a lower spring limit, or might I just be getting overly influenced by my emotions?

 

[deerchaser007]

Went 4 bird limit in 2006. Not sure about 3 bird limit, I have not been able to find that in all my research the past 3 years.
Your problem is much like ALOT in this state now, and just a very, very few even know it's a problem. Gauging your flock size and understanding population density of the wild turkey should not be done in winter and prior to season. Fall and winter flocking groups can cover a population area of up to 10 sq miles once the flocks break. So if you see a group of 10 Longbeards in a fall flock, by spring, they may be 10 miles away.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Would we be better off with a lower spring limit, or might I just be getting overly influenced by my emotions?

1) I believe it's possible some areas simply may not be able to sustain a 4 bird limit year after year considering factors like hatch success and/or hunter density (public and private land).
2) On average private landowners don't seem to manage habitat for turkeys like they do deer for example, so hatch peaks and valleys may be more prominently visible.
3) Hunters have a great responsibility of helping to manage the resource from a stewardship perspective. Just because the State says I can kill 4 a year, if my place(s) can't sustain that yet I attempt to kill a limit every year, I have no one to blame but myself.

 

[TheLBLman]

Thank you, Deerchaser007.

I also could not conveniently find when we went from a 2 to a 3 bird limit, and wasn't sure if it was 2006 on the four.

Went 4 bird limit in 2006. Not sure about 3 bird limit, I have not been able to find that in all my research the past 3 years.
Your problem is much like ALOT in this state now, and just a very, very few even know it's a problem.

I agree about that "problem", just not certain the extent to which the higher spring bird limits have had in creating it. We've also had some significant "evolution" in non-human predation, including mainly nighttime predators (coyotes & bobcats) observed doing much more daytime turkey hunting, as well as the sudden appearance of bald eagles specifically hunting turkeys. And in the site-specific areas I'm mainly hunting, for the past couple years there has been a significant increase in the jake:longbeard ratio (although I believe this ultimately becomes a good thing when more jakes become more longbeards). In addition to the higher spring limit, I believe all these factors may be contributing to the issue of less gobbling than in times past, at least in those areas I've regularly hunted for decades.

Gauging your flock size and understanding population density of the wild turkey should not be done in winter and prior to season. Fall and winter flocking groups can cover a population area of up to 10 sq miles once the flocks break. So if you see a group of 10 Longbeards in a fall flock, by spring, they may be 10 miles away.

Yes, I fully understand that. But it seems many avid hunters do not understand that male longbeards move around much like male deer during the rut. I'm not saying that longbeards commonly travel several linear miles in a day (or night), but am saying they often travel a linear mile or two in only a day or two DURING our turkey season (especially the earlier part of it). Basically, the male longbeards we might be commonly seeing on a few acres (during the season) may be roaming over closer to a thousand acres than a hundred acres, inside a week.

Regarding this "during the season" movement, as with hunting rutting bucks, certain saddles and travel corridors can be great hunting spots, and annually produce more kills than at any time "reside" there (of course, exception being a winter flock of longbeards which can scatter miles in every direction and never return to a particular "spot"). Basically in certain spots, bucks get killed, others come along; Toms get killed, others come along and fill that void, "location" may not be "everything", but some locations are within regional travel corridors for both rutting bucks and "rutting" Toms.

The main "problem" I'm experiencing is that the longbeards are not as "vocal" as in times past, nor do they seem to get out in the more open areas as much as in times past. This has particularly been my experience this season more than any other, never mind I know we still have a respectable population of 2-yr-old longbeards as our season is approaching the midpoint. They just haven't been very vocal, so unlike past times gone by.

 

[TheLBLman]

Would we be better off with a lower spring limit, or might I just be getting overly influenced by my emotions?

I believe it's possible some areas simply may not be able to sustain a 4 bird limit year after year . . . . . . . Just because the State says I can kill 4 a year, if my place(s) can't sustain that yet I attempt to kill a limit every year, I have no one to blame but myself.

Boll Weevil, I agree with every thing you said. However, regarding the large areas I'm doing most my hunting, I don't believe the 4-bird limit is having much detrimental impact to the turkey population. It "may" be having a detrimental impact on gobbling, and it does reduce the number of 3-yr-old and older Toms that might otherwise be available in future years.

Personally, I'm of the opinion most TN turkey hunters would fare better (have more overall turkey hunting enjoyment) if we went back to a statewide 3-bird limit. Be even happier if it became two.

 

[Setterman]

The state to our north kills the same numbers of birds we do with half the limit and half the season we have

Tn imo cannot sustain a 4 bird limit with a fall season and by allowing jakes to be killed. End fall hunting and outlaw jake killing. Then you might can keep the limit which shouldnt have been raised

 

[TheLBLman]

The state to our north kills the same numbers of birds we do with half the limit and half the season we have.

What are the primary reasons for this?
It seems illogical, never mind KY does similar with their annual deer harvest (half the days, and a 1-buck limit).
That is part of what I was eluding to regarding the majority of hunters obtaining more "enjoyment" while turkey hunting, although in the case of KY, KY hunters do not have as many days to be afield hunting as do TN turkey hunters. "Per day" success, KY has better numbers.

I realize that every county (both TN & KY) has different dynamics effecting the ongoing turkey population, but in my main turkey-hunting county (Stewart), I do not believe the killing of jakes nor the fall season is having much impact on the ongoing turkey population. Never mind, I would definitely prefer there to be no fall season, and for jakes to be viewed by hunters much like we view button bucks with deer.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Personally, I'm of the opinion most TN turkey hunters would fare better (have more overall turkey hunting enjoyment) if we went back to a statewide 3-bird limit. Be even happier if it became two.

You're probably right; it does seem I hear more "feast or famine" assessments over time but really can't tell what's driving it. Maybe it's a combination of factors that has created the cycle of haves and have-nots. I also agree with the notion that turkeys have home ranges larger than what most folks realize...gobblers I kill could certainly impact someone's hunting miles away.

 

[deerchaser007]

LBLman, if you don't mind you and anyone else that wishes to help with some observation as this year closes I would like to hear it. As I mentioned, 3 years ago I did some research on what could have caused the decline in many areas of TN with the wild turkey populations. I had to go back to the peak, and look at data prior, and data after the peak. Looking at any and all variables prior and after. When I was done, I emailed a turkey biologist just to get his perspective on it, and what should we be looking for over the next 5 years as indicators of things improving or getting worse. He emailed me back actually! And his response was, what you are waiting for is the year that season opens and the winter flocks have not broke. What this will cause is a huge harvest of mature birds very early, to the point of over harvest and it will not be recognized by most til the following fall, and for some, not until the next spring. This is that year! In most areas, the break had not happened at all. Thus, those hunters that hunt typical fall flocking grounds, had the feast the first 2 weeks. Those without those flocks, thought there was not a turkey in the country. He said in his state, he witnessed in the early years that when this happened, you seen dominant hens group back together before mid may. In theory, it was thought that dominant hens would not be bred by young males, so they flocked back together for protection. He said that can be a indicator. But, by dominant hens not being bred, poult production is VERY low for the broad survey in late summer. Fall hen groups with poults will be less than 25% of the total fall survey. And the real notice will be a drastic decline the following spring harvest. So, I am really curious about his hypothesis on what COULD potentially happen.

 

[Setterman]

The state to our north kills the same numbers of birds we do with half the limit and half the season we have.

What are the primary reasons for this?
It seems illogical, never mind KY does similar with their annual deer harvest (half the days, and a 1-buck limit).
That is part of what I was eluding to regarding the majority of hunters obtaining more "enjoyment" while turkey hunting, although in the case of KY, KY hunters do not have as many days to be afield hunting as do TN turkey hunters. "Per day" success, KY has better numbers.

I realize that every county (both TN & KY) has different dynamics effecting the ongoing turkey population, but in my main turkey-hunting county (Stewart), I do not believe the killing of jakes nor the fall season is having much impact on the ongoing turkey population. Never mind, I would definitely prefer there to be no fall season, and for jakes to be viewed by hunters much like we view button bucks with deer.

More animals to hunt is the answer

 

[TheLBLman]

And the real notice will be a drastic decline the following spring harvest.

Deerchaser007, much of your last post made logical sense, but how does it "add up" (or not) that our annual spring turkey harvests (statewide) have been fairly stable over recent years?

2015 = 31,500 Spring Turkey Harvest Statewide

2014 = 32,634 Spring Turkey Harvest Statewide

2013 = 32,928 Spring Turkey Harvest Statewide

2012 = 34,022 Spring Turkey Harvest Statewide

2011 = 34,029 Spring Turkey Harvest Statewide

2010 = 37,111 Spring Turkey Harvest Statewide

2009 = 32,093 Spring Turkey Harvest Statewide

And despite many hunters, including myself, observing less gobbling, poor hunting conditions, etc., it appears the 2016 TN Spring Turkey season has recorded more turkey harvests than at a comparable point in 2015.

2016 ----- March 15 thru April 18 = 22,339 birds recorded statewide
2015 ----- March 15 thru April 18 = 20,795 birds recorded statewide

And similar numbers from my primary turkey hunting county as well . . . .

2016 ----- March 15 thru April 18 = 327 birds recorded Stewart Co.
2015 ----- March 15 thru April 18 = 258 birds recorded Stewart Co.

Never mind my personal turkey hunting this spring has sucked.
But I'm trying to keep a positive outlook in realizing a bad day turkey hunting beats a good day in the hospital.

 

[TheLBLman]

More animals to hunt is the answer

:tu: Brilliant! Why didn't I think of that?!?! :tu:

So, how do they end up with more animals to hunt by annually killing more animals?

 

[Woodsman10]

I'm still not a firm believer in lowering the limit. I think people need to try to promote good nesting and brooding habitat. I'm almost certain that's what is going on, especially in the southern part of the state. They aren't nesting good for whatever reason.
Look at Alabama, specifically the southern half of the state and the eastern counties bordering Georgia. They have lots of birds, and that is because they have lots of good habitat.
I'm afraid if we could only kill a couple, then what private landowners we have would let turkey habitat management go by the wayside and we would see a bigger drop.

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[Woodsman10]

I also don't agree that fall season really has any significant drop. Do I believe in hen killing? Hell no, its shameful and should be outlawed.
But fall hunting gobblers is not the issue either. Again, look at the five Alabama counties that have it. Birds everywhere. Because Turkey hunting is a culture, and way of life down there. People have promoted habitat for turkeys, and now reap what they sew.

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[Woodsman10]

The only reason I see the limit as being a problem is decoys, now guys that don't know how to hunt kill 4 in 4 consecutive hunts.

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[TheLBLman]

The only reason I see the limit as being a problem is decoys, now guys that don't know how to hunt kill 4 in 4 consecutive hunts.

Interestingly, the only two guys I know (hunting the same areas as I) who basically limited out the first week with 8 birds, to my knowledge never use decoys.

I guess there are differences everywhere, and I'm not disagreeing with the fact decoys can make it easier for novices to kill turkeys, but I see more of the very avid turkey hunters (who don't normally use decoys) as being the ones who kill the most turkeys on an ongoing basis.

Personally, I have no problem with decoys being made illegal, but would prefer to see the limit lowered instead, if it came to a case of one vs. the other.

 

[Woodsman10]

The only reason I see the limit as being a problem is decoys, now guys that don't know how to hunt kill 4 in 4 consecutive hunts.

Interestingly, the only two guys I know (hunting the same areas as I) who basically limited out the first week with 8 birds, to my knowledge never use decoys.

I guess there are differences everywhere, and I'm not disagreeing with the fact decoys can make it easier for novices to kill turkeys, but I see more of the very avid turkey hunters (who don't normally use decoys) as being the ones who kill the most turkeys on an ongoing basis.

Yea you are corrrect. I just like to blame decoys, and wish there was clear evidence and enough power to overturn the legality of them.[emoji2]

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[Woodsman10]

I would like to know what year exactly that full strut decoys in tandem with blinds began to really hit the scene. Blinds and decoys have been around for a long time, but what about this new age? And the new age of hunter that strictly uses this technique? Used to, these same type of hunters would not be turkey hunting at all.

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[Woodsman10]

And speaking of lowering limits, if Tennessee were to reduce the limit to 2, I would probably take my money, resources, and talents else where. I want to be able to promote turkeys on my land, and kill more than two. 4 or 5 is perfect, 3 is doable. "I never limit out btw," but it's fun trying.

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[poorhunter]

Setterman, I think you're right on there being more animals to hunt. Why? I believe it's because carrying capacity is just that much higher in Kentucky. I have been across both states , not every inch, but most counties of both and I just think they have a little better habitat and that can make a big difference. Maybe one could find out population densities and see if they indeed do have more turkeys and deer. The "eye test" says they do, from what I have seen.