Turkey Limits

[muddyboots]

I saw turkeys breeding in Hardin county on March 23. And several buddies saw them breeding all weekend of the juvi hunt. I don't really want the season moved later for our location. A two bird limit is fine with me. I like 3 better but I'll take 2. Did the season not used to open on last Saturday in March? Or did I dream that. I would love that for our area

 

[bloodtrailing]

This is the same conversation as last year and will yield the same result. No one in the TWRA is going to admit a problem because it will look like they made a mistake.

I am not sure what has happened on our property. We only have a few hunters and I do not think many people turkey hunt around us. Birds are just not there like they were five years ago. The only common denominator is the introduction of fall hunting and higher bag limits.

 

[TheLBLman]

Let's just go back to some basic fundamental thoughts and reasoning . . . . . .

Why do we have a spring turkey season? Why not just have no season at all? But should we have a season, just why is there any bag limit whatsoever on the gobblers?

We may have come to a point where TWRA has forgotten.

Ok, then, so if we have a spring turkey season, what are the arguments AGAINST just opening the season up on February 28th and running it thru May 31st? Tell me why not?

And with the above questions in mind, why does the State of KY choose to open their spring turkey season 2 weeks later than we do in TN, then close the KY season a week earlier? That's 3 weeks less spring turkey hunting in KY than in TN!

About half as many days to spring turkey hunt in KY ---- how is this "better"? What are they thinking up there? Oh, and they only have a 2-bird limit. Do they think that makes the hunting better or something?

 

[Andy S.]

Did the season not used to open on last Saturday in March? Or did I dream that. I would love that for our area

The hunting proclamation reads the "Saturday closest to April 1st and progressing for the next 44 days". Due to this, opening day can swing almost a week, from March 27 - April 2, or thereabouts. For the areas I typically hunt, our success rate the first week is usually better when the season opens late March, just as you stated.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Guys the comment period is open for hunting seasons. We need to blast TWRA about doing something about turkeys! I know I sent in my input for a lower limit. There are currently no changes proposed except for allowing youths 2 turkeys instead of one.


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[Bone Collector]

I put these graphs together last year when we were discussing turkey limits, tactics, and their link to population decline in the state of TN. As you can see I used four of the "better" turkey populated counties in the Mid TN area. I also hunt two of these counties (Rutherford & Wilson). The graphs show turkey kills from 2006 to 2015.

The first thing I want to disclaim is in hind sight I should not have used Williamson Co. First off, I know they have plenty of turkeys in Williamson Co. Second off, there is land to hunt there, but if you are not close with the land owner, good luck finding it and gaining access. I would guess declines in that county have more to do with lack of hunting than any other factor. I know people hunt the county for Turkeys, but I still regularly see flocks of 50+ birds in fields. This morning I saw 10+ strutters and a gaggle of hens to go with them in one field.

The second thing I want to disclaim is Rutherford, lost a lot of prime turkey hunting land when the Blackman area was developed. I live there and can attest there are a ton of turkeys in that area. Some are hunted, most are not.

A few things that stick out to me:
• All counties start higher in 2006 (induction of the 4 bird limit) and then drop over the next 2-3 years.
• Maury and Rutherford only went down for 2 years before heading back up, although Maury was only up +3 birds from 2008 to 2009. Wilson and Williamson continued to go down hitting rock bottom in 2009.
• All 4 counties went up pretty significantly from 2009 to 2010. Rutherford had the biggest increase of 47 %.
• All counties saw declines after 2010, followed by a pop in 2013, other than Rutherford County.
• All counties have seen decreases the last 2 years 2014 & 2015 (Note: Rutherford county kills have been declining since 2010).
• All the counties seem to follow a similar pattern. It would be interesting to see brood surveys from a year or two before the big kill years.

Something of note. I ran the #'s from the same period last year vs. this year and they are pretty close.
• Maury is at 806 (-70) vs. last year, Rutherford is at 465 (+36) vs. last year, Williamson is at 412 (+20) vs. last year, and Wilson is at 535 (+1) vs. last year.
• We are at 27,192 for the year as a state vs. 26,359 last year (+833).

All that said, The more I think about this the more I am convinced that kill #'s don't tell the whole story and while fanning, decoys, and blinds are definitely leading to birds being killed that may never have been touched by the hunter using them, the biggest issue IMO is lack of poult production and recruitment. I used to see hens all the time with 8-10 little ones behind them, but now I hardly ever see any poults. IMO if we don't find a solution to protecting hen's nests, and protecting the birds (especially the poults) from predators, we will continue to see a decline. I agree we need to cancel the fall seasons and reduce hen killing to a minimum, but IMO if we don't start getting some poult production, the decline will continue.

 

[muddyboots]

Sent my thoughts in by text phone calls and emails. All I can do n

 

[Poleaxe]

There's no doubt that the decoy fad, fanning, blinds etc have had a bigger impact then any type of weather, jake killing or fall season.

Eliminate decoys, fanning, and blinds and the gobbler population will explode

 

[Woodsman10]

I put these graphs together last year when we were discussing turkey limits, tactics, and their link to population decline in the state of TN. As you can see I used four of the "better" turkey populated counties in the Mid TN area. I also hunt two of these counties (Rutherford & Wilson). The graphs show turkey kills from 2006 to 2015.

The first thing I want to disclaim is in hind sight I should not have used Williamson Co. First off, I know they have plenty of turkeys in Williamson Co. Second off, there is land to hunt there, but if you are not close with the land owner, good luck finding it and gaining access. I would guess declines in that county have more to do with lack of hunting than any other factor. I know people hunt the county for Turkeys, but I still regularly see flocks of 50+ birds in fields. This morning I saw 10+ strutters and a gaggle of hens to go with them in one field.

The second thing I want to disclaim is Rutherford, lost a lot of prime turkey hunting land when the Blackman area was developed. I live there and can attest there are a ton of turkeys in that area. Some are hunted, most are not.

A few things that stick out to me:
• All counties start higher in 2006 (induction of the 4 bird limit) and then drop over the next 2-3 years.
• Maury and Rutherford only went down for 2 years before heading back up, although Maury was only up +3 birds from 2008 to 2009. Wilson and Williamson continued to go down hitting rock bottom in 2009.
• All 4 counties went up pretty significantly from 2009 to 2010. Rutherford had the biggest increase of 47 %.
• All counties saw declines after 2010, followed by a pop in 2013, other than Rutherford County.
• All counties have seen decreases the last 2 years 2014 & 2015 (Note: Rutherford county kills have been declining since 2010).
• All the counties seem to follow a similar pattern. It would be interesting to see brood surveys from a year or two before the big kill years.

Something of note. I ran the #'s from the same period last year vs. this year and they are pretty close.
• Maury is at 806 (-70) vs. last year, Rutherford is at 465 (+36) vs. last year, Williamson is at 412 (+20) vs. last year, and Wilson is at 535 (+1) vs. last year.
• We are at 27,192 for the year as a state vs. 26,359 last year (+833).

All that said, The more I think about this the more I am convinced that kill #'s don't tell the whole story and while fanning, decoys, and blinds are definitely leading to birds being killed that may never have been touched by the hunter using them, the biggest issue IMO is lack of poult production and recruitment. I used to see hens all the time with 8-10 little ones behind them, but now I hardly ever see any poults. IMO if we don't find a solution to protecting hen's nests, and protecting the birds (especially the poults) from predators, we will continue to see a decline. I agree we need to cancel the fall seasons and reduce hen killing to a minimum, but IMO if we don't start getting some poult production, the decline will continue.

Good stuff here.
Tennessee can sustain high limits as long as poult recruitment is good.

I've said it a long time, it's all about the nesting and brooding.

 

[TheLBLman]

Tennessee can sustain high limits as long as poult recruitment is good.

It's just that poult recruitment ISN'T good every year, and never will be.

If TWRA isn't going to be flexible on an annual basis with the turkey limits,
then maybe the limit needs to be reduced to a more sustainable number.

 

[Woodsman10]

Tennessee can sustain high limits as long as poult recruitment is good.

It's just that poult recruitment ISN'T good every year, and never will be.

If TWRA isn't going to be flexible on an annual basis with the turkey limits,
then maybe the limit needs to be reduced to a more sustainable number.

I still believe, that in the southern middle counties, there have been several years in a row of bad hatches. Looking like 8-10 years. Whether the limit is 1 or 5, we will never see the birds again until they hatch good, and for a few years in a row.
I haven't seen a poult since June of 2007.

We can have good hatches, because from the mid 90s until about 2008 we were some of the best hunting in the nation.

The chicken industry is big down here, but I will not believe in chicken litter until it is proven that is the case.

It's weather number one, then nest varmints, then probably Hawks and owls, with coyotes being last on the list.


All we can do is promote habitat. That's all I try to do, and all I can do. Everyone should put back, if they have the land and means that is.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Tennessee can sustain high limits as long as poult recruitment is good.

It's just that poult recruitment ISN'T good every year, and never will be.

If TWRA isn't going to be flexible on an annual basis with the turkey limits,
then maybe the limit needs to be reduced to a more sustainable number.

The chicken industry is big down here, but I will not believe in chicken litter until it is proven that is the case.

.

And you will not make me believe that it isn't until it's proven not

 

[Woodsman10]

Tennessee can sustain high limits as long as poult recruitment is good.

It's just that poult recruitment ISN'T good every year, and never will be.

If TWRA isn't going to be flexible on an annual basis with the turkey limits,
then maybe the limit needs to be reduced to a more sustainable number.

The chicken industry is big down here, but I will not believe in chicken litter until it is proven that is the case.

.

And you will not make me believe that it isn't until it's proven not

Sorry man, you and are close and we agree on a lot of stuff. I just don't believe it is the case.
I'm not saying it isn't what happened, but it would have to be 100% hard proof that it was the case. When the litter goes through its heat cycle, it kills all of the harmful stuff, supposed to anyways.

Now on the other hand, if they spread it without going through a heat cycle it may be doing something.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

[/quote]

Sorry man, you and are close and we agree on a lot of stuff. I just don't believe it is the case.
I'm not saying it isn't what happened, but it would have to be 100% hard proof that it was the case. When the litter goes through its heat cycle, it kills all of the harmful stuff, supposed to anyways.

Now on the other hand, if they spread it without going through a heat cycle it may be doing something.[/quote]

Yes and that's exactly what's happening, come to the house the next time they clean out the neighbors barns. It goes from the barn straight to the hay fields

 

[Setterman]

One thing not talked about enough is the first hay cutting and the impact that has

 

[Bone Collector]

One thing not talked about enough is the first hay cutting and the impact that has

I just saw them cut a field yesterday that I think was winter wheat. It was 2-3 feet tall when they cut it (or looked that high) and i wondered how many nests were destroyed.

 

[Woodsman10]

One thing not talked about enough is the first hay cutting and the impact that has

It hasn't been discussed in this thread but I am well aware of it.

I cringe everytime I see hay being cut, but the farmers have to do it.

 

[AT Hiker]

One thing not talked about enough is the first hay cutting and the impact that has

It hasn't been discussed in this thread but I am well aware of it.

I cringe everytime I see hay being cut, but the farmers have to do it.

I have cut hay every year for the last 20 years and I can only tell you maybe a 1/2 dozen times have I ever seen a nest in a hay field. Granted we have a lot of woods for birds to nest in too.



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[megalomaniac]

One thing not talked about enough is the first hay cutting and the impact that has

The problem with this theory is it would only be applicable if the total acreage in TN converted into hayfields has increased dramatically to coincide with the dramatic population decline of the past decade....

In other words, tons of nests are destroyed during first and second hay seasons (but primarily first).... however, that destruction has been relatively constant, and despite that destruction the population exploded during the mid to late 90's with excellent poult recruitment. Unless the turkeys have changed their behavior and started preferentially nesting in hayfields instead of fallow ground or downed treetops in timber, it should not be the cause of the dramatic population decline of the past 10 years.

So... it's not the cause of our turkey population decline, but it would be nice if we could convince those hens to stop nesting in hayfields....

I for one, have started converting some portions of hayfields into native warm season grasses, both for turkey nesting habitat as well as hoping we can reestablish a few coveys of quail on my farms. They aren't cut until late June/ early July, hopefully well after both turkeys and deer have raised their young. We have also established a few 5 ac alfalfa plots for hay and for 'food plots' come deer season... If the turkeys decide to nest in them, they should be fine before they are cut for the first time for hay.