turkey pop in southern wayne co

[Andy S.]

so you are telling me habitat change is the prob in south wayne co.

Read the comments again, don't think anyone said anything specifically about Wayne, just the counties we were familiar with, which are somewhat close in proximity to Wayne.

You seem to know better than most, so what do you think is the culprit for Wayne county? What do you propose to rectify the problem?

 

[TheLBLman]

I believe most of us are simply pointing out the decline in most areas seems to be attributed to a variety of factors together more than any one, but sometimes, it can mainly be one or two factors.

The area I hunt in SW Hickman has experienced "the decline" in the last 3-5 years and there ain't clear cut one nearby. I don't know of anyone who has spread chicken litter (not saying there hasn't been either). . . . . . . all the open pastures I drive by that were one time full of turkeys every day. Now? Instead of seeing turkeys (LOTS of turkeys) in several pastures on the drive back home, most days I don't see any turkeys at all.

Have you observed an increase in hawks?
Ever see an eagle in those areas?

SOME of the decreased sightings MAY possibly be attributed to a behavior change in that localized turkey population?

Also, is it possible there was a large area (thousands of acres) clear-cut 3-5 years ago, just beyond the area you observe?
Such a "nearby" habitat change could have temporarily contributed (for a few years) to an unsustainable increase in turkeys for the area you observe?

 

[th88]

so you are telling me habitat change is the prob in south wayne co. hahahaa. yep sounds as good as a excuse as any!!!! 2 nd largest county in the state and the least populated!!! yep no where for the turkeys to live unlike 10 yrs ago. give me a break. u guys are funny!!!

There is not ONE problem as other posters have stated, but yes. In several parts of Wayne Co. it is definitely an issue. May not be in the area you hunt. By the way, doesn't matter how big a county is if the habitat sucks.

 

[hbg1]

so you are telling me habitat change is the prob in south wayne co. hahahaa. yep sounds as good as a excuse as any!!!! 2 nd largest county in the state and the least populated!!! yep no where for the turkeys to live unlike 10 yrs ago. give me a break. u guys are funny!!!

Herein lies the problem, everyone wants to offer up excuses instead of doing something, especially the Twra. I have lived in southern Wayne county for 50 years and yes the habitat changes, always has, but the changes are not drastic enough to illicit the drastic change in the turkey population.

 

[hbg1]

I am not disagreeing with anything that has been said to this point, however I have no doubts the chicken house are mostly responsible for the decline. I'm not sure that Twra realizes it but the chicken litter from these houses is spread on hay fields and pastures as fertilizer. That is commonly known but what may not be commonly known is this litter is either classified as green or yellow. The green litter is good and free of certain bacteria's but the yellow is contaminated. There are no regulations on either to my knowledge. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the correlation to the declining turkey populations. The easy solution isn't to stamp out chicken house but to regulate the litter that is spread. Will anyone step up is the question.

It may very well be a factor, but what is your explanation for drastic declines in counties that don't have any chicken houses or manure spreading going on? IMO, the chicken house stuff is a major reach as the declines are going on where there are no chicken houses anywhere around.

Major reach? It may be a reach to people in positions with Twra or people that aren't effected by the decline. Bottom line is action needs to be taken, actually action should have been taken 5 Year's ago.

 

[volsrock]

so you are telling me habitat change is the prob in south wayne co.

Read the comments again, don't think anyone said anything specifically about Wayne, just the counties we were familiar with, which are somewhat close in proximity to Wayne.

You seem to know better than most, so what do you think is the culprit for Wayne county? What do you propose to rectify the problem?

CHICKEN HOUSES. Thats the only thing that has changed in the last ten yrs. MORE MANURE. LESS TURKEYS!!!!! give me a different answer!!! ill hang up and listen!!!!

 

[tnanh]

There have been several answers given just in this thread. Doesn't appear you know how to hang up or listen. I don't understand how people can get there feelings hurt every time this subject comes up. Everyone who posts on here wants the same thing. Better turkey hunting. I'm a little older and remember hunting when there weren't any turkeys at all. I think some of the younger people have been spoiled and think Tennessee has always had turkeys state wide.

 

[woodsman04]

I guess these evil chicken houses are also spreading their litter on the other end of the state in the mountains


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[volsrock]

so you are telling me habitat change is the prob in south wayne co.

Read the comments again, don't think anyone said anything specifically about Wayne, just the counties we were familiar with, which are somewhat close in proximity to Wayne.

You seem to know better than most, so what do you think is the culprit for Wayne county? What do you propose to rectify the problem?

hahaha. quit spredding chicken manure fresh outof the chicken house. dont think i could make myself understood anymore plainly!!

 

[volsrock]

so you are telling me habitat change is the prob in south wayne co. hahahaa. yep sounds as good as a excuse as any!!!! 2 nd largest county in the state and the least populated!!! yep no where for the turkeys to live unlike 10 yrs ago. give me a break. u guys are funny!!!

Herein lies the problem, everyone wants to offer up excuses instead of doing something, especially the Twra. I have lived in southern Wayne county for 50 years and yes the habitat changes, always has, but the changes are not drastic enough to illicit the drastic change in the turkey population.

but but but. its gotta be see something like this. yea the habitat has changed so much in wayne co in a the last ten years!! hahahahaha

 

[Gobbler88]

so you are telling me habitat change is the prob in south wayne co. hahahaa. yep sounds as good as a excuse as any!!!! 2 nd largest county in the state and the least populated!!! yep no where for the turkeys to live unlike 10 yrs ago. give me a break. u guys are funny!!!

Herein lies the problem, everyone wants to offer up excuses instead of doing something, especially the Twra. I have lived in southern Wayne county for 50 years and yes the habitat changes, always has, but the changes are not drastic enough to illicit the drastic change in the turkey population.

but but but. its gotta be see something like this. yea the habitat has changed so much in wayne co in a the last ten years!! hahahahaha

I guess it boils down to what you want to believe. The turkey population is declining and there are many things that are causing it. I agree that chicken manure is a cause of the decline, but only one of many. Habitat change effects the turkeys more than we think. If there's not any good nesting areas, feeding areas, etc, the turkeys can't survive. So, habitat change isn't something that should be looked over when it comes to the turkey decline.

 

[volsrock]

no habitat change in maury co???? they have been top 5 in the state for yrs. just two counties above wayne!!!! U may be right but wayne co is the second largest co in the state and the least populated!!! Id say habitat is not the prob in wayne co !!! thousands of acres of uninhabited land!!!!

 

[Gobbler88]

no habitat change in maury co???? they have been top 5 in the state for yrs. just two counties above wayne!!!! U may be right but wayne co is the second largest co in the state and the least populated!!! Id say habitat is not the prob in wayne co !!! thousands of acres of uninhabited land!!!!

Thousands of acres of uninhabited land that is made of mostly hardwood timber and pines. I hunt a few places in Wayne county and there have been a few years where the acorn crop hasn't been all that good. 2 out of the last three years where I hunt over there, acorns were basically non existent. Turkeys were almost the same way. Again, I'm not saying that is all of Wayne county or the main cause of the decline in Wayne county, but that is the case where I have hunted over there. The WMAs over there are also constantly getting logged.

 

[TheLBLman]

Id say habitat is not the prob in wayne co !!! thousands of acres of uninhabited land!!!!

I'd say I don't know what are the most significant problems in Wayne Co.,
but "Uninhabited" does not equate to good year-round turkey habitat.

The Smoky Mountain National Park is TN's largest block of "uninhabited" land
but is also may be our largest block of poor habitat for wild turkey & deer.
They exist there, but I suspect in much lower numbers than compared to Wayne Co.

Turkeys have a lot going against them, but, imo, one of the things they need to thrive is great habitat diversity within relatively small areas (less than a square mile).

They need a diverse, year-round food supply, not just periodic acorns, and not just the barren nothing of many pine stands.
They also need great nesting cover, lots of it, for good reproduction.
Some of our most (human) uninhabited areas provide the least of what's needed most.

But even with ideal year-round food supply habitat, protective cover from predators, and great nesting habitat,
turkeys may not thrive due to so many other factors going against them.

And, these factors can be hard to isolate, since they can vary so much from one area to the next,
then from one year to the next (such as mast acorn failure, or too much rain one year vs. another, etc.)
not to mention varying localized factors such as poaching and more or less hunting.

Even a single weather event, such as a freezing rain in January, followed by very low sub-freezing temperatures the next day or so
can contribute to much greater mortality in a localized area.

 

[volsrock]

All i know is there is at least 1000 acres around me of which i own 220 of that habitat had not changed except for the normal growth in the last ten yrs. I have counted over a hundred coming off the roost in a single morning!!!! Now im lucky to find one on the roost!!!!!

 

[th88]

All i know is there is at least 1000 acres around me of which i own 220 of that habitat had not changed except for the normal growth in the last ten yrs. I have counted over a hundred coming off the roost in a single morning!!!! Now im lucky to find one on the roost!!!!!

Habitat is always changing, especially in non ag/pasture environments. A ton can change in 10 years depending on the type of habitat. To the person who lives there, these changes are much less apparent. In your case, maybe the habitat has not changed that much. But keep in mind that a turkey's home range is much greater than 220 acres, and in most cases, a lot larger than 1,000 acres.

I feel for you on the turkey situation. I've actually been looking at aerial imagery of south Wayne County and I see that there is a lot more ag there than central and northern Wayne. Even though the turkey decline has been county wide, it makes ya wonder...

You can look at past imagery in Google Earth and see how timber harvesting really amped up in the past 10-15 years in central/northern Wayne. I know the conversion of large acreages to even-aged pine plantations has definitely had an affect on the bird numbers on the public lands.

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . . keep in mind that a turkey's home range is much greater than 220 acres,
and in most cases, a lot larger than 1,000 acres.

IMO, this is something many of us have a hard time "accepting" with both the ranges of deer & turkey.

MOST of us kinda think of the deer & turkey we commonly see on our property as being "ours", often a bit oblivious that someone else over a mile away may be seeing them just as often (maybe just on different days).

Keep in mind a single square mile is 640 acres, so an area 3 miles x 3 miles is 9 sq. miles = 5,760 acres.

A more common "range" configuration is a creek drainage or ridgeline range, say 4.5 miles long x 2 miles wide = still 5,760 acres of range "habitat".

Both deer & turkey will commonly "range shift" over 3 miles during a single year.

I feel for you on the turkey situation.

x 2

Most of us long-time turkey hunters have experienced similar,
and often been unable to isolate a single factor as cause.

The one time I've personally seen a huge sudden reduction on an area of several thousand acres was caused by a corn feeder, which was feeding "certified aflatoxin-free" corn (purchased at a County Co-Op as horse feed). That one feeder was providing corn to a large wintering flock, and basically just wiped them all out inside a week in late February.

Ever since, I have strongly discouraged corn feeding, believing (for a variety of reasons, not just the aflatoxin risk)
it too often just does more harm than good.

Seriously, all it takes is a single batch of aflatoxin corn (that's a single feeder)
to wipe most the turkeys using a very large area, especially if aflatoxin develops while turkeys are still in winter flocks.
Much of the corn sold at places like Walmart as "deer corn" already contains the deadly aflatoxin (deadly to birds, not deer).
Aflatoxin typically will only make deer a little "sick",
but that can make them more vulnerable to other illness and predation.

 

[Spurhunter]

I believe it is a combination of things, but I'll say this: I was on a lease of 700 acres that was covered up with turkeys. I've sat in a deer stand and counted over 100 many times. One year the farmer started using chicken manure. Almost immediately our turkey sightings dropped well over 50%. At 50% I'm being conservative. Why? No idea. I also think with the trail camera craze everyone is putting out corn feeders to get deer pics. How much has aflatoxins? I don't know.

 

[th88]

Seriously, all it takes is a single batch of aflatoxin corn (that's a single feeder)
to wipe most the turkeys using a very large area, especially if aflatoxin develops while turkeys are still in winter flocks.

And the baiting risks aren't just with corn.

Here is a link to a story on a flock in MS being wiped out by insecticide laced wheat seed:

https://www.ms-sportsman.com/turkey-hun ... ey-deaths/



Moral of the story: Baiting = bad for turkey!

 

[TheLBLman]

And the baiting risks aren't just with corn.

Here is a link to a story on a flock in MS being wiped out by insecticide laced wheat seed:

https://www.ms-sportsman.com/turkey-hun ... ey-deaths/

Moral of the story: Baiting = bad for turkey!

Yep, and you are preaching to the choir on this to me --- totally agree with you.

Also, don't think this has been previously mentioned on this thread,
but modern farming practices (along with other causes) have reduced the number of insects.

Guess what is the primary diet of young turkeys?

Add DECREASING Insects to the list of factors causing a decline in turkey populations.

This study is from Germany, but it's happening world-wide . . . . . . .
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-insect-ap ... chers.html

"We only became aware of the seriousness of this decline in 2011, and every year since then we have seen it get worse," says Sorg, the man who sounded the alarm.

Also in 2011, just across the Dutch border, ecology professor Hans de Kroon was working on the decline of birds in the region.

He hypothesised that the birds suffered from a shortage of food, especially insects.