Twra talks about turkey hunting problems......

[callemquacktn]

In the last TWRC meeting 4/15/16.
The video starts out about waterfowl but goes into the turkey research they are looking into doing and possible causes of decline.

https://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A ... H9lrLZ&s=1

 

[timberghost35]

They need to come to West TN and do some of this research. The rivers getting out have been killing hatches for the last 3 or 4 springs. were talking the water getting up and staying up til around June. I, personally, have seen a big decline in some places I hunt.

 

[Deerbuster1996]

They need to come to West TN and do some of this research. The rivers getting out have been killing hatches for the last 3 or 4 springs. were talking the water getting up and staying up til around June. I, personally, have seen a big decline in some places I hunt.

still wouldn't explain the reason for the decline in areas that aren't in the bottoms in W Tn. But the floods have been a big problem for areas like Shelby forest.

 

[prstide]

They need to come to West TN and do some of this research. The rivers getting out have been killing hatches for the last 3 or 4 springs. were talking the water getting up and staying up til around June. I, personally, have seen a big decline in some places I hunt.

still wouldn't explain the reason for the decline in areas that aren't in the bottoms in W Tn. But the floods have been a big problem for areas like Shelby forest.

Just my opinion but nearly every county in W Tn is low lying and prone to flooding. The only county I see significant elevation in has shown an increase in harvest over the last several years. Population decline is tied to flooding here ruining nests without a change in the limit so the number of birds left have been dwindled down since there has been a very low poult survival rate to replace what's been harvested. Also what isn't river bottoms around this area is mainly ag fields which lacks proper habitat to hold birds so it really hasn't ever been a strong part of the state for turkey numbers to begin with.

 

[timberghost35]

Generally speaking, everything that isnt river bottoms does not have a good set of woods nearby to hold and let birds thrive like the counties in the middle and eastern part of the state. Turkeys may be here one day, and then way over there the next. It seems like they jump farms and travel like crazy. I'm not sure of they are looking for hens and have to travel a whole lot farther or what it is. I have pictures of a gobbler last deer season in July that my friend has a picture of in Dec almost 5 miles away. exact same bird. You can tell by the beard. Middle and East TN have turkeys like we have deer. Every year it seems to get less and less where I hunt. Even the public lands that are suppose to be managed for this stuff seems to be on a sharp decline. Look at Tully, Chickasaw, Shelby Forrest, Wolf River, Brownsville, Lower Hatchie. All have been impacted deeply by floods and it seems to get worse and worse every year. I remember when Lower Hatchie used to have so many turkeys on it that we used to go and just sit on the bluff and listen to them gobble just for fun. Now, your lucky to get a couple. In fact, we got drawn this yr and heard exactly 2 birds. Both died. To me, and Im sure some people will not like this, but we need zones just like deer. There is no reason for West TN to have a 4 bird limit, especially around the River bottom areas. Go back to a 2 bird limit in these areas. Something has got change around here, or Im afraid I will end up crappie fishing instead of turkey hunting in the spring because there will be none around.

 

[Boll Weevil]

There is no reason for West TN to have a 4 bird limit, especially around the River bottom areas.

I don't disagree with much of your post/observations but some river bottom regions have very healthy numbers of birds and can sustain 4 bird limit provided they continue to be well-managed. I'm talking private vs. public property so perhaps hunter density and habitat management methods are the major determinants. I work very hard at intensively managing habitat specifically for turkeys and just don't know if managers of public grounds do this. It's a lot more effort than most people realize.

Regarding public ground I think you're absolutely right...those properties haven't been able to sustain a 4 bird limit for a very long time. Based on what I've heard from folks hunting those areas, the season should likely close until the local population rebounds and when it opens should only be 1 or 2 birds per hunter at the very most.

 

[timberghost35]

I wouldnt say close it completely, but I understand whefe your coming from. Yes, they have a 1 bird per hunter limit now, but you know just as well ad I do that with then new check in procedure, its easy as can be to not check a bird out. If you make it off the refuge, your golden. I think it was plum stupid to do the over the internet/app check in. Especially for turkeys. Deer, sure why not. Cant really hide a deer that well and most people have to take it to a processer. Not birds. Im not sure what the answer is to help the birds around here, but something needs to be done or my kids will never get the chance to turkey hunt.

 

[Bone Collector]

To me, and Im sure some people will not like this, but we need zones just like deer.

I agree 100%. I sent that in in my comments to the TWRA and will probably do it to the TWRC as well. I am not with the doom and gloom, "it happened here, and if we don't stay ahead of it it will happen there, so we need to lower the limit to 2 birds" mentality. I believe limits should be set based on populations in the area, not a statewide limit. If southern Middle TN is in such decline, close the season, or make the limit 1. If middle TN is still good, leave the limit alone. If another area is decent, reduce it to 3. Not everyone has to be the same.

Also in before someone jumps in here and starts talking about how guys are going to drive from the lower limit areas to the higher limit areas to kill more birds.... Some will, but the # won't be that high. many people don't hunt to mount turkeys, so they are hunting for meat. you don't get that much meat, so driving 2 hours to kill a turkey probably won't happen, as the ends won't justify the means.

 

[Deerbuster1996]

Generally speaking, everything that isnt river bottoms does not have a good set of woods nearby to hold and let birds thrive like the counties in the middle and eastern part of the state. Turkeys may be here one day, and then way over there the next. It seems like they jump farms and travel like crazy. I'm not sure of they are looking for hens and have to travel a whole lot farther or what it is. I have pictures of a gobbler last deer season in July that my friend has a picture of in Dec almost 5 miles away. exact same bird. You can tell by the beard. Middle and East TN have turkeys like we have deer. Every year it seems to get less and less where I hunt. Even the public lands that are suppose to be managed for this stuff seems to be on a sharp decline. Look at Tully, Chickasaw, Shelby Forrest, Wolf River, Brownsville, Lower Hatchie. All have been impacted deeply by floods and it seems to get worse and worse every year. I remember when Lower Hatchie used to have so many turkeys on it that we used to go and just sit on the bluff and listen to them gobble just for fun. Now, your lucky to get a couple. In fact, we got drawn this yr and heard exactly 2 birds. Both died. To me, and Im sure some people will not like this, but we need zones just like deer. There is no reason for West TN to have a 4 bird limit, especially around the River bottom areas. Go back to a 2 bird limit in these areas. Something has got change around here, or Im afraid I will end up crappie fishing instead of turkey hunting in the spring because there will be none around.

Outside the Obion river bottoms everything around here is very hilly and there are plenty of woods around this area.The area has held turkeys fine for years according to people that have hunted turkeys around here for a while. Most people are saying that this year has been the hardest to find a gobbler. Same thing that is happening to me is happening to others, a lot of hens around but, not to many gobblers.

 

[Beard Buster]

To me, and Im sure some people will not like this, but we need zones just like deer.

I agree 100%. I sent that in in my comments to the TWRA and will probably do it to the TWRC as well. I am not with the doom and gloom, "it happened here, and if we don't stay ahead of it it will happen there, so we need to lower the limit to 2 birds" mentality. I believe limits should be set based on populations in the area, not a statewide limit. If southern Middle TN is in such decline, close the season, or make the limit 1. If middle TN is still good, leave the limit alone. If another area is decent, reduce it to 3. Not everyone has to be the same.

Also in before someone jumps in here and starts talking about how guys are going to drive from the lower limit areas to the higher limit areas to kill more birds.... Some will, but the # won't be that high. many people don't hunt to mount turkeys, so they are hunting for meat. you don't get that much meat, so driving 2 hours to kill a turkey probably won't happen, as the ends won't justify the means.

You do have some good points BC
For me I would rather see a statewide 2 bird limit
just think how much better hunting public ground would be
a lot of the Hunters that have private ground would probably kill their birds on the private instead of public

 

[Setterman]

Yet no mention of the detrimental impacts that fanning and decoys are having. They are clueless and have been for a long time now sadly.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I believe limits should be set based on populations in the area, not a statewide limit.

Agree and if there's a region/county and season limit it will hinder folks from legally hopping from county to county. Unlike the fall season which makes no sense to me where a hunter can go from one place to another killing the county limit in each...not to mention the majority of these are hens.

 

[Bone Collector]

I believe limits should be set based on populations in the area, not a statewide limit.

Agree and if there's a region/county and season limit it will hinder folks from legally hopping from county to county. Unlike the fall season which makes no sense to me where a hunter can go from one place to another killing the county limit in each...not to mention the majority of these are hens.

I took part in the fall season two times. Once when it was in December and I enjoyed it then because you'd get that period of bow season and on public land (all I had then) you would not see any deer and if you did they were scared to death after the first round of shooting. I was dumbfounded to find out that i could stay on Percy Priest and shoot 18 turkeys so long as only 6 came from a single county (and lets be honest who's gonna know). No telling how many hens were shot in this manner. I shot 5 with 2 shots out of a flock of 80. 3 Jakes, 2 hens. That was the last year the fall season was in Dec. I went one time since it got switched to October, and didn't kill any despite walking up on a flock of hens. Just didn't want to kill them and find I'd rather be deer hunting in Oct.

Personally I think the fall season should be cancelled or the limit lowered to 1 bird. I'm ok with either sex on the one, but wouldn't mind them saying it has to be male with a gun. I'm also ok with shooting one either sex with a bow. I have been bow hunting for years, had several opportunities, and never been able to pull off killing one with a bow.

 

[Bone Collector]

Yet no mention of the detrimental impacts that fanning and decoys are having. They are clueless and have been for a long time now sadly.

This is going to be a huge uphill battle to get anything done about. Especially the decoys. I don't think a single state in the union prohibits their use.


I'm all for banning fanning. There I just made you a campaign slogan... :lol: I've never done it, I have thought about trying it, but then just change my mind. It looks fun, but they'll run up to a strut decoy the same way. (no I've never use one of those either), but to each their own on that. Times change and so do methods, tactics, and gear.

 

[Bone Collector]

I've copy righted these so don't try to steal this to make shirts or bumper stickers... :lol: Clearly I have way to much time on my hands today.

Promotional props for the "Anti-Fanning Movement".

Nice version:

Setterman Edition oke: oke: I couldn't resist :tu: :

 

[Tennessee Lead]

Lol well done BC

 

[Beard Buster]

I love it
that would be bad !## on a t-shirt

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Lol I love it! That'll get the Waddell Jr's on here fired up. Need to make one for tent hunting snipers with energy hiding HECS suits too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deerchaser007]

Since these discussions keep arising, I will ask the most important question that needs an answer. We know the standard for brood surveys is 2.7 poult/hen ratio. And most areas are not reaching this and have not for many years consecutive. We know TWRA thinks there is not a problem cause our yearly harvest of jakes is not higher nor equal to our adult harvest. But, with county harvest numbers, what is the magic percentage number the identify a problem of decline? I've seen post Maury county is fine, despite a 20% decline in spring harvest over a 3 year period(2013 to 2015). I've seen post that rutherford county is fine, no problems at all, despite a 25% decline in harvest for spring(2013 to 2015). My birds are not gone in all of cannon county, despite a 15% decline in spring harvest from 2013 to 2015. So, what's magic #? 30%? 40%? 50%?.

 

[Boll Weevil]

But, with county harvest numbers, what is the magic percentage number the identify a problem of decline?

Nailed it. I know lots of the recent (and very relevant) discussion is about gobbler limits but your question really is a prominent aspect of a shrinking, stable, or growing flock. Ever heard the saying, "You can't save yourself to profitability?" Sure, reducing gobbler limits will have some carryover effect from year to year but production must improve to sustain or hopefully grow a flock. Having a gobbler or 3 to service every available hen is obviously a requirement, but if those hens don't produce enough poults to outpace predation, disease, or other mortality the flock shrinks. In my mind it's just as much about how many baby turkeys are added, as it is how many adult toms are removed.

More focus needs to be placed on the supply side of the equation. I'm not 100% sure but feel the decline and rebound (hallelujah!) in my area was largely due to habitat changes and predators and it took years to get it turned around. In other areas maybe it's disease or over-harvest...so until poult production is addressed localized flocks will never grow without something like trap and transfer (which I honestly believe might be needed in some areas that are totally devoid of turkeys).