• Help Support TNDeer:

Twra turkey population study.

My personal theory is rooted solely on predation. Having owned chickens I've seen first hand how fast coons, foxes, hawks, and owls can wipe out a flock. Hawks and owls are no joke, it seems our main focus is on coons or coyotes…. But I've seen owls kill a rooster much larger than them. I've also seen an owl roost on a limb full of guineas and work it's way down the limb and grab one by the neck. On one hand I don't understand how they're not thriving considering how many eggs each hen has, on the other hand I'm surprised any survive at all
 
Urban_Hunter said:
My personal theory is rooted solely on predation. Having owned chickens I've seen first hand how fast coons, foxes, hawks, and owls can wipe out a flock. Hawks and owls are no joke, it seems our main focus is on coons or coyotes…. But I've seen owls kill a rooster much larger than them. I've also seen an owl roost on a limb full of guineas and work it's way down the limb and grab one by the neck. On one hand I don't understand how they're not thriving considering how many eggs each hen has, on the other hand I'm surprised any survive at all
Click to expand...
Problem is... we can't do anything about raptors or owls.. illegal to kill...heck,, can't even remove coons year round unless they are nuisance animals.in your yard.
 
TheLBLman said:
About the only bird populations that have increased over the past few decades are the raptors.
Their numbers have soared, pun intended.

That partially explains the decrease of other bird species.
Click to expand...

They really have it used to be special to see a red tail hawk.. Now they patrol every ditch… Maybe it's because they're the only bird not eating seeds and insects…
 
Stumpsitter said:
You're absolutely right. They do have a smell when they get wet. That actually helped me kill a non gobbling bird 1 time, I actually smelled him before I walked up on him in a gas line right of way.
Click to expand...

Bad.. Have you ever walked under a roost tree full of wet turkeys?
 
Urban_Hunter said:
My personal theory is rooted solely on predation. Having owned chickens I've seen first hand how fast coons, foxes, hawks, and owls can wipe out a flock. Hawks and owls are no joke, it seems our main focus is on coons or coyotes…. But I've seen owls kill a rooster much larger than them. I've also seen an owl roost on a limb full of guineas and work it's way down the limb and grab one by the neck. On one hand I don't understand how they're not thriving considering how many eggs each hen has, on the other hand I'm surprised any survive at all
Click to expand...
It's because so few nest survive. Also nesting is taking longer due to disturbance like hunting and weather. If the hens all nested at once there would be predator swamping. But they're all spread out and getting slaughtered…
 
Bgoodman30 said:
It's because so few nest survive. Also nesting is taking longer due to disturbance like hunting and weather. If the hens all nested at once there would be predator swamping. But they're all spread out and getting slaughtered…
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

I almost never have a Turkey on my personal land, but had a lone hen nest in my front field maybe 80 yards from my house a couple years ago. She had 11 poults initially. Day by day there were less and less. By the time they could "lift off" and get into a tree with mom there were only 2 left. She came back last year and nested in the same spot. Something got her on her nest, found a pile of feathers and shattered eggs
 
catman529 said:
Everyone's got their own ideas and theories, but there is no straight answer.
Click to expand...
That is a great way to sum up what I was trying to explain in a round about way.

Also I will add I think it is a lot of different things working in unison all at once, and not just one thing or the other specifically.
 
muddyboots said:
Hardin county. Used to see songbirds by the 1000s. I bet I have not seen a mockingbird or cardinal in 2 years.
Click to expand...
That's odd. I'm not terribly far, heck I hunt all over middle TN, and mockingbirds and cardinals are some of the most common birds I see.
 
I just wanted to put out some information on this particular topic because I was one of the technicians to work specifically on this project. I was on this project for the spring/summer of its 3rd year and covered both Maury and Giles. By no means an expert, I did want to offer my thoughts.

This project encompasses 5 counties and is pretty broad in scope. The whole project started because of the notice and concern in the declining turkey population. So, they do realize that the numbers are declining. Of course, wildlife populations do have a normal rise and fall (boom and bust).

In order to keep a long story short and not write a small book, there are of course many factors that can influence a population. Sure, predators play a role and reducing them can help. Yes, weather can affect turkeys and their behavior (not much we can do about weather.) Of course, diseases can be an issue (we took a blood sample from the turkeys captured as well). However, anecdotally one of the main influencing factors appeared to be habitat. I worked on a particular area in Maury County that was very suitable habitat for both nesting and poults. I personally saw a lot of success around there. It's hard to convince people that habitat is disappearing when they say nothing has changed around his/her place in years. Turkeys move and use up quite a bit of space. Maybe your place hasn't changed but someone else's not too far has. And it's beyond difficult to convince a cattle owner or farmer to convert their land to turkey habitat. It seems there is no real monetary profit in just having wildlife unless you have enough land to lease and perhaps turn a profit that way. They are trying to convince many to turn to native grasses that can be both good for wildlife and cattle. But, there is still that period to let the grasses become established well before grazing can take place. Understandably, nobody really cares for losing money for any period of time (especially right now with everything costing more).

I am looking forward to seeing all the results from the study as well. I encourage people to read about the life cycles of turkey and habitat requirements. Dr. Keiser from UT has done a lot of studies with native grasses and their benefits for both wildlife and cattle. Dr. Chamberlain from UGA has a fountain of turkey knowledge and can offer tons of insight as well. In the end, changes and action must occur and getting people to understand and become involved will always be the hardest obstacle.
 
Last edited:
paboom said:
Where I grew up in Virginia, I didn't see the first coyote until 1999. Now, you see them frequently and in larger packs. I find it hard to believe they aren't having an impact.

On my place in TN, I can't remember the last time I put out a dog proof trap that I DIDN'T catch a racoon.

I'm not saying it's THE reason, but it sure has to be a role in the decline.
Click to expand...
The problem with that is we have nowhere close to the number of coyotes as the Midwest and their bird and deer numbers are pretty stable. I heard my first coyote here about 1990. Bears moved in about 1995. Early 2000s bird and deer numbers plummeted and have not recovered. There is zero farm land even close to where I hunt. Nearest ag is prob 20 miles away. So no herbicides, insecticides, loss of habitat, etc. The number of bears, coyotes and turkey hunters have increased greatly. Especially bear and turkey hunters. Coyote numbers aren't very high which makes sense being prey numbers are low. Don't have many coons or opossums. Rabbits are a rarity but that's more to do with habitat.
 
Swaffy said:
I just wanted to put out some information on this particular topic because I was one of the technicians to work specifically on this project. I was on this project for the spring/summer of its 3rd year and covered both Maury and Giles. By no means an expert, I did want to offer my thoughts.

This project encompasses 5 counties and is pretty broad in scope. The whole project started because of the notice and concern in the declining turkey population. So, they do realize that the numbers are declining. Of course, wildlife populations do have a normal rise and fall (boom and bust).

In order to keep a long story short and not write a small book, there are of course many factors that can influence a population. Sure, predators play a role and reducing them can help. Yes, weather can affect turkeys and their behavior (not much we can do about weather.) Of course, diseases can be an issue (we took a blood sample from the turkeys captured as well). However, anecdotally one of the main influencing factors appeared to be habitat. I worked on a particular area in Maury County that was very suitable habitat for both nesting and poults. I personally saw a lot of success around there. It's hard to convince people that habitat is disappearing when they say nothing has changed around his/her place in years. Turkeys move and use up quite a bit of space. Maybe your place hasn't changed but someone else's not too far has. And it's beyond difficult to convince a cattle owner or farmer to convert their land to turkey habitat. It seems there is no real monetary profit in just having wildlife unless you have enough land to lease and perhaps turn a profit that way. They are trying to convince many to turn to native grasses that can be both good for wildlife and cattle. But, there is still that period to let the grasses become established well before grazing can take place. Understandably, nobody really cares for losing money for any period of time (especially right now with everything costing more).

I am looking forward to seeing all the results from the study as well. I encourage people to read about the life cycles of turkey and habitat requirements. Dr. Keiser from UT has done a lot of studies with native grasses and their benefits for both wildlife and cattle. Dr. Chamberlain from UGA has a fountain of turkey knowledge and can offer tons of insight as well. In the end, changes and action must occur and getting people to understand and become involved will always be the hardest obstacle.
Click to expand...
Thanks for joining and giving us an update.
 
cm1021 said:
Are they studying WHY the poults aren't surviving?? If they know they aren't making it, yet not trying to find the reason, their study is useless IMO. There's no need to study if turkeys are declining, we know they are! Figure out why they are and develop a plan to stop it!! I swear with twra sometimes it's like talking to a wall!!
Click to expand...
I can guarantee you that the TWRA understands the problems much better than we do. You keep saying "if" this and that and then say it is like talking to a wall. Dealing with people with that mindset is impossible and it doesn't bring anything constructive to the problem. Arm chair quarterbacks are hard to make happy because they usually do not understand the issues and challenges, they are too busy complaining.
 
One thing I don't see much discussion about is self regulation. It's real simple to lower your own limit if you see the population declining. Hunt with a camera instead of a gun. Don't worry about what your neighbor is doing or try to collaborate with him or her to impose a self limit. You are your own manager and steward of the land you hunt.
 
TheLBLman said:
Good point.
They were more common in TN than quail as late as the 1980's.
Relatively rare to see a meadowlark today in most of TN.
They may still be more common here than quail,
but I've seen very few of either over the past decade.
Click to expand...
I actually saw a single meadowlark today in Dayton, TN. First I've positively identified since moving to TN.
 
fairchaser said:
One thing I don't see much discussion about is self regulation. It's real simple to lower your own limit if you see the population declining. Hunt with a camera instead of a gun. Don't worry about what your neighbor is doing or try to collaborate with him or her to impose a self limit. You are your own manager and steward of the land you hunt.
Click to expand...
Doesn't work. I did that for a couple decades.
 
Studies from other states seem to show 2 things:

1. Need for Better Habitat
2. Early Hunting During Breeding Disrupts Reproduction

I'm sure predation is in the mix.
 
megalomaniac said:
Doesn't work. I did that for a couple decades.
Click to expand...
It's difficult especially with smaller properties. Turkeys have large ranges and don't respect property lines. Some for sure will be killed anyway. But, the gobbler you passed did get saved that day and maybe he bred a hen before he got shot. You can always shoot over his head and he won't be so ready to come to the next call. I haven't done this personally on turkeys. I don't want to come off as a turkey savior. But seems like the people complaining the limit is too high, are killing the limit if they can.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top