killingtime 41
Well-Known Member
I'm don't shoot doe's with fawns either. If I was starving I would. But whatever a man wants to do.
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Help Support TNDeer:
Which to shoot?
- Thread starter dewclaw
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megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
IF you have a legit overpopulation problem, the correct answer is to kill the most productive does first... ie those with twins first, then kill the fawns. Usually the fawns stay close to momma after you shoot her, making for easy pickings on deer numbers 2 and three.
Personally, I'm not a fan of that, and have no trouble keeping my population stable by only targeting dry does.
Personally, I'm not a fan of that, and have no trouble keeping my population stable by only targeting dry does.
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
I have helped cull does on several places. The biologists who were giving advice for the areas I helped cull does told us to only (this is if it is known the are has to many does) was and is to ONLY shoot the MOMMA does. And they said do not shoot any fawns or young deer. That means to wait for a family group and shoot the momma doe. We have done this for over 30 years. Many benefits. One is you for sure shoot a doe. I am a believer that young or younger does, when they come into heat, can come drag more bucks past you than any other deer. Also you help prevent killing young male deer. And one great benefit is if the momma doe has a young male deer for offspring, then the likelihood of that male deer making that area or somewhere really close his home range, goes way up. We have seen this happen many times. The absolute best ruts I have ever seen has been after a couple years of hammering the momma does. It is amazing how hard a momma doe can be to find, even after only a few hunts of shooting momma does.
Im all about the crockpot deer!
BigCityBubba
Well-Known Member
Fawn meat in early bow season is pink. Just sayin.
Its pretty simple, wanna grow the herd shoot the surplus, want to nock it back shoot the mommas. I will never understand the whole, im not shooting a fawn to manly crowd. I would rather kill 50-80 lb deer every day, yes they tase better! Ive eat my fair share(nearing 300) and yes you can tell a difference in a crockpot yearling and an old doe.
Kevin Snook
Well-Known Member
I don't shoot does with fawns
I did once and regretted it.
That's just me-I say kill what you want as long as you're utilizing the meat..
On my little piece of dirt I don't shoot does but in Virginia I'll shoot a couple but again I don't kill any with fawns
I did once and regretted it.
That's just me-I say kill what you want as long as you're utilizing the meat..
On my little piece of dirt I don't shoot does but in Virginia I'll shoot a couple but again I don't kill any with fawns
Late December if there is a doe with two large yearlings, I'll take one of the yearlings. I'll let the likely pregnant mature doe go for the next year.
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
I am all for each doing what he feels is right within the law, but on 2 places I helped cull does that a biologist was involved, the guys that said they would not shoot a momma doe with little ones, they got sent home. At least on land in KY in TN, according to the biologists I have been associated with, when there are for sure to many does, the only doe you shoot is a momma doe with little ones, leaving the the little ones alone. And shooting fawns or yearlings, especially the later it is in the season, you are for sure taking a huge chance on killing a young male deer, button bucks get pushed away that time of year and are loners and pretty much curious and ignorant when it comes to being scared of hunters. All bucks, were young deer at one time. I have no care what anyone kills legally, but I personally have no care to kill a young buck of any kind.
Yes I you can still make mistakes, but in many, many years of killing does (for all those years I only shoot momma does) I have only killed 3 button bucks. On the first farm we tried the "kill all the momma does", and that is all we wanted to kill and we did for a couple years. Every single momma doe that had little ones we saw on one farm, we did our best to kill. We had the absolute best ruts I have ever seen for many years and killed one or 2 nice bucks every year until the farm sold and was developed, all in Middle Tennessee.
I know one of my better and most memorable bucks came opening morning of gun season. Right after daylight I shot a momma doe. I got a call from a guy that hunted on a farm not far from the one we hunted. He had the same problem we did just a couple years before, way to many does. He asked me how big a buck I killed, I told him it was a momma doe. He gave me a hard time, we had already killed a pile of momma does. I told him to give me just a second, and I killed another momma doe. He gave me a harder time and said well your day is done, I said nope, I still had at least one if not 2 buck tags. It was a good cold morning. There were 5 young deer with the 2 mommas I killed, I watched 6 different bucks chase on of the little ones all over the field. About 9:30, another tiny doe came running by me, I heard a buck grunting. He came out chasing that tiny doe, and I killed him. He called and I told him I had killed another doe and needed him to check it in. He was giving me a hard time, telling me he was going to turn me in, afterwards he said he should have known better because my brother and myself never killed over the limit, but he said ok, I will come by and check her in. When he showed up we put the first 2 in my truck and when we rounded the tree line to pick up the third, he yelled "what is that!". I said that is "doe" number 3, this was a few years into killing only momma does when we shot does. He was only a 7 pointer, 12" G2's, 18-1/2" inside, 22" main beams, over 4" bases and dressed 172 lbs. One brow tine just never grew, and not a giant but a really nice buck. My friend said I don't understand, you are killing all your does (I reminded him only momma does) and your brother and you keep killing great bucks and all we see are does and little bucks, I told him to start shooting the mommas. He said I am not doing that. He finally killed one buck (he said it was an okay buck, by his standards) off the farm he hunted and then it sold and was divided. If needed, IMO, killing only momma does (when does are killed) is one of the best things that can be done to help an overpopulated herd. I also believe, not always but an older, mature doe, when she goes into heat, not always, but a lot of the time, she goes into hiding when she goes into heat. A younger doe in heat, on the right day, may have several different bucks chasing her, not at the same time, but show up more than once if not several times in a day with a different buck behind her. They haven't been hunted like an older doe and they are just running from the buck where ever they go.
With that said, I will abide by whatever the landowner wants, if he says no does, I don't shoot them. I actually hunted one farm in Clarksville, the landowner raised cattle, but he told us to NEVER shoot a coyote. He hated the deer so much, he wanted the coyotes to kill the deer. I killed 2 coyotes and a doe the first day I hunted it with a percussion muzzleloader. That is when I found out he did not want the coyotes killed. He told me if I hadn't killed the doe I would not have been allowed to come back. I said yes sir, and his farm was covered up with coyotes, but there was a pile of deer also and we killed a bunch of deer on that farm and saw coyotes almost every time we hunted, but could not shoot them.
WTNBowHunter
Well-Known Member
Generally speaking, I will shoot the first doe that gives me a shot. If the doe has a little one with it that has spots, I wont shoot. If a doe has a little one with it that has no spots, I'll shoot the larger doe. I hunt in a CWD zone as well. I try to shoot most of my does early so I can wait for a mature buck to come by during the rut.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
OP needs to reduce population. Shooting fawns does nothing for that.
But if you are hungry, doesn't matter which one you kill as long as you have a valid tag
yellalinehunter
Well-Known Member
For population control definitely shoot the does with twins or triplets. I've heard that a yearling doe will only have a single fawn her first pregnancy. Not sure if it's proven fact or not. Barren does put pressure on carrying capacity but don't add additional to it. I've read the best is to have an age balance. Older does know your property as a home range and aid in keeping your does on your property. Once again, I'm sure there are different opinions on this but going with what I've researched. Not sure how big of property the OP has but seems like it would be safe to assume taking out several different age deer would be better than just targeting one specific.
mike243
Well-Known Member
Down side of shooting older doe is they are buck bait. run them off your property or shoot many of them and depending on your property you might not see many bucks during the rut. everything is a trade off imo. If I wanted to drop the herd numbers I would wait till I had the bucks killed, as doe are bred the bucks will move on looking for more love till probably February lol. the yearlings will get a lot of attention as they come into heat for the first time and depending what your area is like season might be open or not. choices are hard to make for everybody as a lot of factors play out.
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
I pretty much disagree with that. If a landowner or person in control of the land wants does killed late in the season, then that is what is done. But from my personal experience and many years ago when I helped cull does and a biologist was involved, when killing does is needed, kill as many mature does as you think as needed or as many as you can early in the season. The places we shot the mature does early in the season always had/have better ruts than places that wanted the does shot late in the season. Makes sense to me, since dropping the doe population will make the buck to doe ratio better, then kill them before the rut, not after. I have been told so many times I was "shooting the bait" when we killed so many does early in the season, only to have some of the best ruts I have ever seen. And it is not 100 percent of the time, but it sure is a large percentage.
Now, this is reasonable IMO. I think the same.
I've gotten to where deer I woulda shot in a heartbeat when I was younger, now I'll draw my bow and see if I get caught, if not I'll let down and not shoot especially at dark, if I get caught it don't matter no way. I don't want to do the gutting and dragging, getting old I guess.
From a selfish point of view, I prefer to kill does early season rather than late. Why have them around eating all the food & taking up the space if I'm just going to kill them anyway? Seems logical to cull them early so the deer I want on the farm have more resources with less competition. It takes time & money to work the habitat, plant plots, etc. Waiting until late season to cull does seems like a waste of money to me.
I also like killing a variety of age groups as to not upset the balance of things too much. I don't want too many or too few of any one age group. My least favorite to kill are the old grannies because I've learned when they pop hot every year and can plan my hunts around that calendar date. Killed many good bucks doing that. Otherwise I'm not sure it really matters what you kill or when. I'd just caution to be sure how many you need to kill and don't over kill. They don't come back as quick as you can kill them off.
I also like killing a variety of age groups as to not upset the balance of things too much. I don't want too many or too few of any one age group. My least favorite to kill are the old grannies because I've learned when they pop hot every year and can plan my hunts around that calendar date. Killed many good bucks doing that. Otherwise I'm not sure it really matters what you kill or when. I'd just caution to be sure how many you need to kill and don't over kill. They don't come back as quick as you can kill them off.
deerhunter10
Well-Known Member
WTNBowHunter
Well-Known Member
Agree, my opinion is to kill them early. Hadn't thought about the monetary loss from each additional mouth that's on the landscape but it makes good sense.
I was either listening to the Speak The Language podcast where the guest was the director over MS dept of wildlife and he detailed the reintroduction efforts for MS dating back to the early 1900's. really interesting how they accomplished this, the efforts that took place, etc. As you could imagine, they saw noticeable increases in deer population in the areas with readily available food resources compared to those that didn't have the resources. I say all that to say that killing variety of age grouped does will benefit the herd and, when food/cover/water is readily available they will bounce back pretty quick!
Hasn't the old dry doe theory been proved to be a myth? If a doe is dry, isn't it due to being either too young to breed (yearling) or she lost her fawns, which happens a lot?
If a doe truly can't breed, seems like it would have zero impact on population dynamics taking her out, anyway.
If a doe truly can't breed, seems like it would have zero impact on population dynamics taking her out, anyway.
