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Your Thoughts On Season Start Date!

younggun308 said:
I'd like to see that idea get a stake driven through its head at the commission. I was positively appalled to see it floated at the last meeting.

Our turkey study is the reason they waited too long to make any changes in the first place, and was likely affected by the insane bounce in participation during the 2020 and 2021 seasons.

I'm not interested in basing our statewide decisions on a study primarily weighed by trends in Lincoln and Giles county, when the rationale for the current delayed start was based on real knowledge of turkey biology, namely by Dr. Mike Chamberlain.
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Chamberlain dominant gobbler is theory only, believe it all you want,.I have no problem with that if you do .That was a real study I posted involving numerous hens and data here in TN,.it could have proven his theory however it did not. Go back to the hatch of 22 one of the best in TN ever with no delay at all and also one of the best hatches throughout the South east. I will post an article from a Mississippi turkey director crediting his state hatch which opens for juvenile the first weekend of March to a general consensus of weather throughout the South east during hatch. Again it's just a matter of opinion, I will respect others opinions and hunt when they open the season. No problem at all if they open it mid April, however until they show some kind of reproductive benefits to a delay. I will still believe our hatch has to do with weather, predators, habitat not opening two weeks later and would rather hunt another week in April as opposed to a week in late May. I also would be for just closing it at the old traditional date if they moved it back 1 week, so actually it would be a week shorter season and skipping the new memorial day weekend that they give us.That's why I said just meet in the middle with an opening date. Again just my thoughts.
 

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i'd be happy with a 2 bird limit and leave the season as it was. anyone else out there that has bumped hens with poults late in the seaon? or move it up & do away with the time in May. (too warm/ticks) or even just one bird, there is nothing in my desire to hunt that makes me feel as if "if i don't get to shoot 4 or 5, i aint going!" that would have me questioning myself "exactly why DO you hunt, anyway?" there's a lot of reasons, and many might be hard to express.
 
Season length is completely irrelevant once you go beyond 2.5 weeks.

It's been like this since early 2000s... 80% of the entire seasons kill happens in the first 16 days of the season. Doesn't matter if it rains every day, doesn't matter if it opens late March or early April. Turkey hunters are just that efficient. Once most gobblers are dead after the first 2.5 weeks, success falls through the floor. So you could leave season open until end of June, and you would probably only add 1% to the entire seasons kill.
 
Wrangler95 said:
Ive seen lots of hunters who are seeing good numbers of turkeys this past year but some who are not seeing a increase in the population.My county is not seeing a increase at least among hunters that I know.What are your thoughts on the April 15 opening,do you think alot more hens are getting bred with the 2 week delay to opening season?Im for anything that benefits the turkey population,a one gobbler season would be fine with me.Your thoughts!
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No, don't believe anymore hens are getting bred. They were getting bred before the season change. There is NO evidence pointing towards hens not getting bred. Nest initiation dates are the same as they've always been. If hens actually weren't getting bred, nest initiation dates should be trending later and later.

My thoughts on the opener, push it back a week. Second Saturday in April would day. That'd have it opening between April 8 and April 14. Give a bird back on the bag limit in regions with good populations.
 
Wrangler95 said:
I agree,not near as many out of staters now with the season change,benefits all the Tennessee hunters!
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I agree with this however you just solve the problem like other states have instead of delaying residents hunters for no reproductive benefits. Mississippi has a quota for non residents the first two weeks on public land. Alabama opens private lands a week before public land. For instance private land could open a week earlier and public mid April. Non residents could hunt the opener if they had access to private land, otherwise they have to wait until the next week for public land to open. So many easy solutions on the non residents if that's the reason not to move back a week.
 
I am convinced from a property managers point of view as well as a turkey hunters that the delay was and is the right move and any retreat from that is just surrendering ground gained.
I am surprised that there is little to no conversation about the benefits to successful nesting from the hen angle! They are more consequential than most know. No one knows how many nest sites are interrupted by hunters, Every encountered nest is likely a nest revealed to a predator! Hens injured by errant pellets, careless shooters or from just being unseen (happens more than most want to admit) will often stop nesting and end or delay egg production to try to heal. Flocks under high stress from hunter pressures added to normal predator pressures may abandon areas including nests already started there. There are many factors related to wild turkey success, all are important.

The success of the wild turkey as a game bird should be based on what is best for the species alone! Never should hunter preferences be a consideration!
 
deerfever said:
Late start has been proven no benefits in reproductive success. Move it back a week towards the old start date to compromise and be done with it. We have had great hatches the last 3 or 4 years in delayed and Non delayed areas of the state it made no difference. Weather , predators and habit will continue to determine our turkey population.Non residents should not determine our opener just put a quota on them or whatever you need to do.
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Couldn't have said it better myself.

scn said:
I'm good with the delayed start. I firmly believe that it leads to more successful breeding of the hens. I miss not being out there those two weeks on the hunting end, but am more than willing to sacrifice my hunting "wants" to see if we can stop the major decline in our turkeys across the state.

I'm hearing from across the state that we might have had the best hatch in MANY years. It seems really dumb for the agency to be talking about making a change due to whining hunters.
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One thing I wish TN would do, is stick with the delayed opener for 3 seasons so more data could be gathered. I know they are discussing season changes now for 2025, but with such a drastic change for spring 2023 might as well wait til at least 2026 to make changes again.

younggun308 said:
I'm not interested in basing our statewide decisions on a study primarily weighed by trends in Lincoln and Giles county, when the rationale for the current delayed start was based on real knowledge of turkey biology, namely by Dr. Mike Chamberlain.
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Its not just Lincoln and Giles. There is evidence in multiple states that the season changes have no affect. We will see more of this data published soon.
 
TheLBLman said:
And it's not "just" about more successful breeding.

The April 15th start date SAVES a ton of longbeards from being slaughtered by non-resident hunters who were abusing TN's early start and (until recently) 4-bird limit.

Most of the non-resident hunters coming for TN's early slaughter were avid, highly accomplished turkey hunters; many of the kind who could easily take 4 long-beards in a single week of hunting.

Delaying the season 2 weeks has greatly reduced this slaughter because this particular sub-set of hunters is going to be turkey hunting somewhere the 1st 2 weeks of April, just now not in TN.

The big problem WAS that most states were opening later than TN, so TN was a huge draw to non-resident hunters. It still is, but we're now on a more level playing field with many other turkey-hunting states. As prime example, we were opening 2 weeks earlier than Kentucky, and our spring limit was 4, while KY's was 2. This difference brought a ton of avid, accomplished turkey hunters to Tennessee, killing disproportionately a lot more turkeys than resident TN hunters.

IMO, the TN turkey season now opening mid-April is a much "fairer" date for resident TN turkey hunters. Non-residents are still welcome.
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100% agree that the push back helped public lands tremendously. Rather ironic that TWRA pays The Hunting Public to come pimp out public lands, and then ends up having to drastically alter some WMA regulations due to the their promotion working TOO WELL. TWRA wanted more NR turkey hunters, well by god they got them!!

"Abusing" though? Well that is a bit strong. Can't blame a man for taking advantage of an opportunity to extend his turkey season. Just like you can in 48 other states.
 
deerfever said:
Chamberlain dominant gobbler is theory only, believe it all you want,.I have no problem with that if you do .That was a real study I posted involving numerous hens and data here in TN,.it could have proven his theory however it did not. Go back to the hatch of 22 one of the best in TN ever with no delay at all and also one of the best hatches throughout the South east. I will post an article from a Mississippi turkey director crediting his state hatch which opens for juvenile the first weekend of March to a general consensus of weather throughout the South east during hatch. Again it's just a matter of opinion, I will respect others opinions and hunt when they open the season. No problem at all if they open it mid April, however until they show some kind of reproductive benefits to a delay. I will still believe our hatch has to do with weather, predators, habitat not opening two weeks later and would rather hunt another week in April as opposed to a week in late May. I also would be for just closing it at the old traditional date if they moved it back 1 week, so actually it would be a week shorter season and skipping the new memorial day weekend that they give us.That's why I said just meet in the middle with an opening date. Again just my thoughts.
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Yup, its crazy how social media has made the theory become commonly accepted as fact.

As all other states cut back on opportunity based on theories, some states like MS (which was being criticized) are starting to come out looking like the winners.
 
megalomaniac said:
Season length is completely irrelevant once you go beyond 2.5 weeks.

It's been like this since early 2000s... 80% of the entire seasons kill happens in the first 16 days of the season. Doesn't matter if it rains every day, doesn't matter if it opens late March or early April. Turkey hunters are just that efficient. Once most gobblers are dead after the first 2.5 weeks, success falls through the floor. So you could leave season open until end of June, and you would probably only add 1% to the entire seasons kill.
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Sort of. There were still 5,163 turkeys reported from May 4 to May 31 last year. 556 being jakes and 46 being hens.

May 15 - May 31, only 1,828.

Take away the 2nd half of May, yeah basically irrelevant. But take away those first 2 weeks and you are saving a lot of turkey. And gobbler carryover drastically helps hunting quality on those lean years without many 2 year old birds.
 
Popcorn said:
I am surprised that there is little to no conversation about the benefits to successful nesting from the hen angle! They are more consequential than most know. No one knows how many nest sites are interrupted by hunters, Every encountered nest is likely a nest revealed to a predator! Hens injured by errant pellets, careless shooters or from just being unseen (happens more than most want to admit) will often stop nesting and end or delay egg production to try to heal. Flocks under high stress from hunter pressures added to normal predator pressures may abandon areas including nests already started there. There are many factors related to wild turkey success, all are important.
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Great point. We don't know the impacts hunters are having on reproduction by tromping around the woods those last 2 weeks in May. Valid argument against the extremely late hunting dates.
 
th88 said:
Yup, its crazy how social media has made the theory become commonly accepted as fact.

As all other states cut back on opportunity based on theories, some states like MS (which was being criticized) are starting to come out looking like the winners.
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Yes Sir! I have never understood that at all, I really like the turkey coordinator in Mississippi. I had the opportunity to speak with him one time on the phone, read numerous articles he has been interviewed in and he seems like a great guy. If the Chamberlain theory was true LBL which has been delayed since the 80s here in TN would need turkey crossing signs every mile or so, and Arkansas would be the leading turkey destination in the country. Lol
 
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th88 said:
Nest initiation dates are the same as they've always been. If hens actually weren't getting bred, nest initiation dates should be trending later and later.
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Where does this data come from?
A hen will begin nesting when her body begins producing eggs. Whether she is bred or not.
Weather, stress, predation, health, available food not just length of day determine individual nest initation.
Successful breeding and optimal fertilization is based on no more than 10 hens per male and fewer is better. Many flocks far exceed that ratio. A gobbler mounting a hen does not insure a successful coupling. Anus to anus contact is only successful when the gobbler has available sperm, there is not an endless supply. Every time a hen submits to a gobbler, she risks injury with bacterial infection which often ends the nest success and may well kill the hen.
An egg that was not fertilized will not hatch, will rot and give off an odor that will reveal the nest's location to a predator or will burst and reduce viability of other eggs and introduce a bad bacterial presence in the nest.
If anything move it another week or 2 later an shorten it as well.
I want to see Turkeys be successful and don't care about Hunter success without the prior!
 
megalomaniac said:
Season length is completely irrelevant once you go beyond 2.5 weeks.

It's been like this since early 2000s... 80% of the entire seasons kill happens in the first 16 days of the season. Doesn't matter if it rains every day, doesn't matter if it opens late March or early April. Turkey hunters are just that efficient. Once most gobblers are dead after the first 2.5 weeks, success falls through the floor. So you could leave season open until end of June, and you would probably only add 1% to the entire seasons kill.
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I think other huge factors to the first two weeks having the highest kill no matter when the opener is , is the fact that obviously these are unpressured birds at this point every year.it opens and also the fact that the first two weeks are when everyone who ever wanted to turkey hunt in their life is out in the woods. Usually after two weeks you hear the old " they are henned up, I quit" or the fishing is getting good and I am done.
 
Popcorn said:
Where does this data come from?
A hen will begin nesting when her body begins producing eggs. Whether she is bred or not.
Weather, stress, predation, health, available food not just length of day determine individual nest initation.
Successful breeding and optimal fertilization is based on no more than 10 hens per male and fewer is better. Many flocks far exceed that ratio. A gobbler mounting a hen does not insure a successful coupling. Anus to anus contact is only successful when the gobbler has available sperm, there is not an endless supply. Every time a hen submits to a gobbler, she risks injury with bacterial infection which often ends the nest success and may well kill the hen.
An egg that was not fertilized will not hatch, will rot and give off an odor that will reveal the nest's location to a predator or will burst and reduce viability of other eggs and introduce a bad bacterial presence in the nest.
If anything move it another week or 2 later an shorten it as well.
I want to see Turkeys be successful and don't care about Hunter success without the prior!
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Everywhere. There is a TON of data in peer reviewed publications in regards to nesting dates. The past decade there have been substantial numbers of hens radio'd/GPS'd and tracked. Other data collected such as nest success also hasn't really changed much as some would think. That indicates hens are getting bred and not dropping infertile eggs.

Getting poults to survive is a much bigger issuer than hens getting bred and hatching.
 

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