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16 gauge

Andy S. said:
They do and what I would shoot if I had to turkey hunt with this gun. Federal makes a TSS shell for it as well.
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Agree --- would definitely find some HTL or TSS loads in 16 ga.

I've killed longbeards (many moons ago) with 3 different 16 ga guns.

Back then I just used the same #6 high brass shells I used for squirrel & ducks. Yep, back then, lead was used for waterfowl.

Killed at least one or two with #7 1/2 dove loads.
Get them up close, the shell & load really doesn't matter much.

But today's HTL or TSS can give you a huge advantage.
 
In my younger days, for a period of several years, I hunted everything with a Browning Sweet 16.

"Everything" included dove, quail, squirrels, waterfowl, and deer.
I had 5 different barrels for that gun:
Cylinder, Improved Cylinder, Modified, Full, and "Buck Special".
We didn't change choke tubes then, changed the whole barrel!

Think I was in my 20's before I ever deer hunted with a centefire rifle, but killed many deer (starting at Age 12) with multiple shotguns. Where I began my deer hunting it was "shotgun only" regs.
 
Just curious as I've never shot TSS: any concern with it in older guns/barrels?
Don't want to side track but figure it may be useful for OP too since he's talking about a nostalgic gun, I take it to mean its got some age on it.
 
Southern Sportsman said:
Any gun that is solid enough to shoot modern ammo can shoot TSS. The pressures are all within the same specifications.
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I know (well, I've heard) that steel shot, especially larger sizes can cause barrel bulges or other issues with older, fixed choke guns and I just wondered if there were any similar concerns with TSS.
 
Displaced_Vol said:
Just curious as I've never shot TSS: any concern with it in older guns/barrels?
Don't want to side track but figure it may be useful for OP too since he's talking about a nostalgic gun, I take it to mean its got some age on it.
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I appreciate the question. The gun is probably 70 years old and looks like it was made yesterday.
 
Madbowh said:
I know that some shots greater than no.4 will kill a turkey but twra will confiscate your gun if you are using anything else. I will tell you first hand twra is ruthless. I killeda deer in a4 point minimum area and they took it said the points were 7/8" not 1"long. They said they were debating taking my gun and license. Don't mess around with the rules they will be there when last expected. In Tennessee no number 4 shot don't go out. I've also had them walk on private property and sample dirt from mineral block and say they will contact if anything illegal came back in sample.
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It looks like it is time for you to re-read the regulations as you are either WAY off in trying to talk about them or don't really know what you are talking about.
 
scn said:
It looks like it is time for you to re-read the regulations as you are either WAY off in trying to talk about them or don't really know what you are talking about.
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Many take for granted that others know this, but given the prior comments it's worth pointing out that the larger the shot number, the smaller the shot — i.e., 5 shot is one size smaller than 4 shot. So "shot size no larger than no. 4" = no 3s, 2s, buckshot, etc.

That may not be intuitive for someone not super familiar with shotgunning, so maybe that is the confusion.
 
Displaced_Vol said:
I know (well, I've heard) that steel shot, especially larger sizes can cause barrel bulges or other issues with older, fixed choke guns and I just wondered if there were any similar concerns with TSS.
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I've shot TSS through several different guns with fixed full barrels and tight chokes. I've never had a problem. I don't even know of anyone who has seen a problem.

It's certainly true that TSS is harder than steel, so it will not "give" or compress when going through a choke or barrel. But the real concern is with bigger shot.

Think about packing a pound of gravel into a small bag and pushing it through a pipe. Because of the size of gravel, there will be dead space between pieces and the gravel might lodge in the pipe. Pack a pound of sand into a bag and push it through the same pipe. Less dead space between small pieces, so the bag will "form" to the pipe.

I wouldn't shoot steel BBs through a full barrel. I have no hesitation shooting tungsten 8s or 9s through a full barrel.
 
Southern Sportsman said:
Many take for granted that others know this, but given the prior comments it's worth pointing out that the larger the shot number, the smaller the shot — i.e., 5 shot is one size smaller than 4 shot. So "shot size no larger than no. 4" = no 3s, 2s, buckshot, etc.

That may not be intuitive for someone not super familiar with shotgunning, so maybe that is the confusion.
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This was probably my mistake I am no shotgunner by any means been hunting and shooting my whole life but not much with a shotgun mistake and misunderstandings happen and sorry if I was leading anyone in the wrong direction I know the but mentions no.4 I buy no.4s they have a turkey on the box and that's about a far as I go with a shotgun.
 
Southern Sportsman said:
I've shot TSS through several different guns with fixed full barrels and tight chokes. I've never had a problem. I don't even know of anyone who has seen a problem.

It's certainly true that TSS is harder than steel, so it will not "give" or compress when going through a choke or barrel. But the real concern is with bigger shot.

Think about packing a pound of gravel into a small bag and pushing it through a pipe. Because of the size of gravel, there will be dead space between pieces and the gravel might lodge in the pipe. Pack a pound of sand into a bag and push it through the same pipe. Less dead space between small pieces, so the bag will "form" to the pipe.

I wouldn't shoot steel BBs through a full barrel. I have no hesitation shooting tungsten 8s or 9s through a full barrel.
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10-4 That makes a lot of sense.
 
Pilchard said:
@TheLBLman forgive my ignorance but what is HTL?
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Pilchard, you're excused :)
Yes, HTL means "Heavier Than Lead".
A common & popular version of HTL has been the "HEVI" brand and/or "HEVI-13".

HTL usually implies shot that is 8 to 40% "heavier" than lead, which equates to much greater penetration, and allows for the use of smaller pellets (denser patterns) while still achieving the penetration of much larger pellets.

For example, HTL in sizes #6 & #7 might have penetration and downrange performance more similar to a #5 standard lead pellet.

Technically speaking, one could call TSS just a more advanced version of HTL.
But it is SO MUCH HEAVIER than lead, it is just referred to as TSS, for Tungsten Super Shot.

Actually, what we're really talking about is the DENSITY of the pellet material, as a pound of lead, or a pound of HTL, a pound of TSS, or a pound of FEATHERS . . . . . a pound of each, is a pound.

It's just that a pound of TSS can about be held in a thimble, while a pound of lead needs two thimbles, while a pound of feathers may have the volume of 1,000 thimbles. Consequently, a "heavier" payload (such as 1 5/8 oz in a 20 ga, or 2 1/2 oz in a 12 ga) can be loaded with TSS whereas the hull space would not allow this much weighted volume of steel, or even lead.

Note that many steel waterfowl loads in 12 ga 3" magnum hulls may carry only 1 1/8 oz of steel pellets, simply because there isn't enough hull space to get much more in there.

To compare, Steel pellets are about 7.85 g/cc; Bismuth is about 9.7 g/cc;
Lead is about 11.1 g/cc.
The "HEVI" or HEVI-13 branded shot is about 12.0 g/cc (about 8% more dense than lead);
TSS is a whopping 18g/cc (62% heavier than lead!!!)

Depending on the purity of the source, all these various g/cc's may vary a bit.

Some ammo "brands" may "mix" various materials to produce something in between some of the pure materials. This may be done primarily because TSS is so relatively expensive, while steel & lead are relatively inexpensive.

But because TSS is SO DENSE (and HARD), even #9 sized "dust" pellets can have enough energy at 60-plus yards to completely penetrate a turkey's head. If shooting TSS, one really doesn't need the more commonly used lead sizes of say #5 or #6, as the #9 TSS actually has comparable energy to a #5 lead, maybe even more penetration at 60-plus yards.

If you can afford it, and it's ok to use in your particular gun, TSS is simply a superior load. It is so good that a 20 ga with TSS can out-perform a 12 ga shooting lead.

Since one would typically fire only a very few rounds in a season of turkey hunting vs. a season of waterfowl hunting, TSS has become very popular with turkey hunters, but somewhat cost prohibitive for most waterfowlers.

Since TSS is "harder" than steel, it may not be safe to use large-sized TSS pellets (such as a #4 or a #2) in anything other than more open chokes (as is somewhat the case with steel pellets). Most people seem to think #9 TSS is ok for any choke.

To reduce costs, but still have loads superior to either steel or lead, some manufacturer are "mixing" TSS pellets with either steel, bismuth, or lead.
 
Although TSS has been "marketed" more as a longer-range offering,
I believe many hunters, such as myself, are using TSS more to increase one's advantage at closer ranges, and/or to increase the range of an open-choked gun to that of a tighter choked gun (using) lead.

For example, I might be able to use a more open choke, with a much larger pattern radius, yet still provide high-probability lethality on a turkey's head at 45-50 yds by using #9 TSS rather than #5 lead.
With this set-up, I'm less likely to miss a turkey at 20 to 25 yds, while those who set-up very long-range turkey guns may end up missing more up close than they gain at a distance.

For me, it means my little lightweight, low-recoil 20 ga throws a larger pattern radius, with a greater range (45-50 yds) than my old dedicated 12 ga turkey gun provided with lead loads. And, it's just easier to carry that lightweight 20 all day instead of lugging around that heavy 12.

In my younger days, many my family & friends carried 16 ga guns, and our thinking was
"Carries like a 20, hits like a 12".

What reduced the popularity of the 16 was the introduction of the 20 ga "magnum" 3-inch hull.
But with the same payload (say 1 ounce to 1 1/4 oz ) the 16 will typically provide more uniform patterns (as well as potentially higher velocity) than a 20 gauge (regardless of hull length).

In short, the 16 ga is generally ballistically superior to the 20 ga.
 

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