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#2 let me get too close to him on the roost

congrats i stalked within 45 yards of a big gobbler up there sunday while he was breeding a hen but i didnt take the shot because i wanted my brother to kill him and he got away
 
CatMan,

You have supported your decision to shoot the bird off the limb on the basis that it's legal and it's "fair chase" because of the difficulty of getting within range of a roosted tom.

Yes, it is legal. However, legal and illegal with regards to game and fish regulations represents only a minimum standard of conduct enforced by a regulatory agency to prevent sportsmen from doing harm to the game/fish species or harm to each other (public safety). In this case, there are not enough turkey hunters shooting birds off the limb to do harm, and it's not a public safety risk. Also, a good game/fish reg must be easily enforceable so even if a game agency wanted to make it illegal to shoot a bird off the limb. How could they enforce it? The officer would have to be within sight of you and the bird to know that you did it. In this case, turkey hunters are allowed to decide whether it's ok to them or not.

To your fair chase argument, it is not difficult to stalk within gun range of roosted birds especially after green up. Why do turkeys roost in trees? To escape predators. One they are in a tree, flushing from the roost is their absolute, last escape option. You almost have to walk directly underneath him. With leaves on the trees, it becomes a situation where you can't see him until he sees you and by that time you are in range.

"Fair chase" is something we each define, but if your argument here is that getting within gun range of a roosted bird is very difficult, I think you come up short.

Finally, I read your posts with enthusiasm and based on what I can tell you are a fairly new hunter. Most of us when we got started went through a stage where blood was what mattered. We lived for the kill, and we gladly walked the line between legal/illegal or ethical/unethical to get that next one. The rush was yo much for us to restrain.

Over the last few years, I have had the pleasure of introducing a lot of new turkey hunters to the sport we love. Getting them to look beyond the kill is one of the biggest challenges I face. Yes, we are there to harvest a bird and bring meat home. What I teach them though is we each get to decide how we do that. What is legal is our first standard, but individually we should strive for a higher standard than simply what is legal. For me, shooting a bird off the limb does not meet that standard.
 
Great way to post that WMAn and you did it without bashing. I completely agree. Congrats on a fine gobbler though!
 
WMAn said:
CatMan,

You have supported your decision to shoot the bird off the limb on the basis that it's legal and it's "fair chase" because of the difficulty of getting within range of a roosted tom.

Yes, it is legal. However, legal and illegal with regards to game and fish regulations represents only a minimum standard of conduct enforced by a regulatory agency to prevent sportsmen from doing harm to the game/fish species or harm to each other (public safety). In this case, there are not enough turkey hunters shooting birds off the limb to do harm, and it's not a public safety risk. Also, a good game/fish reg must be easily enforceable so even if a game agency wanted to make it illegal to shoot a bird off the limb. How could they enforce it? The officer would have to be within sight of you and the bird to know that you did it. In this case, turkey hunters are allowed to decide whether it's ok to them or not.

To your fair chase argument, it is not difficult to stalk within gun range of roosted birds especially after green up. Why do turkeys roost in trees? To escape predators. One they are in a tree, flushing from the roost is their absolute, last escape option. You almost have to walk directly underneath him. With leaves on the trees, it becomes a situation where you can't see him until he sees you and by that time you are in range.

"Fair chase" is something we each define, but if your argument here is that getting within gun range of a roosted bird is very difficult, I think you come up short.

Finally, I read your posts with enthusiasm and based on what I can tell you are a fairly new hunter. Most of us when we got started went through a stage where blood was what mattered. We lived for the kill, and we gladly walked the line between legal/illegal or ethical/unethical to get that next one. The rush was yo much for us to restrain.

Over the last few years, I have had the pleasure of introducing a lot of new turkey hunters to the sport we love. Getting them to look beyond the kill is one of the biggest challenges I face. Yes, we are there to harvest a bird and bring meat home. What I teach them though is we each get to decide how we do that. What is legal is our first standard, but individually we should strive for a higher standard than simply what is legal. For me, shooting a bird off the limb does not meet that standard.
Click to expand...
Isn't it a great world we live in where we do not have to meet someone else's standards but only the broader standards set by regulation.

Congrats catman on a fine bird and a good hunt.
 
Do it YOUR way Cat, and if at some point in time you decide that its no longer cool for YOU to shoot one off the roost, then do it some other way. But always make it your decision as to how you want to hunt. There are too many judgement passers in our sport anyway for any of us to worry about what they think. "Well its all right now, I've learned my lesson well, you can't please everyone so you might as well please yourself"! The late Ricky Nelson, Garden Party.
 
Thanks Beekeeper

WMAn, yes I am on my 2nd year of turkey hunting and glad to get another bird under my belt whenever I get the chance. I also want as much meat as I can kill legally because living with my family of 7 depletes my turkeys pretty quick.

You admit most of us as beginners go through the kill phase where we just got to kill a bird. I think that's true and in fact it seems normal so why is there a problem with it? Why do you try to get people to look past the kill when it seems to be a pretty normal phase? I know more experienced hunters who would still enjoy shooting one off the limb if they got the chance. I don't see how it's unethical...

It may not be that difficult to sneak up under a roosted bird, but I have no intention of specifically shooting birds off the roost when I hunt. It happened by chance and I took the chance and have meat in freezer and another set of spurs and I'm happy with it. That may not be your way of hunting which is totally fine, but I fail to see what is wrong with it. Trust me I'd rather have one come to my calls or stalk and ambush one. I even make calls so I can feel that sense of accomplishment when I call and kill one with a homemade call. But if I want a bird more than I want to "play the game" on any given day then I will shoot one from the limb if I happen to walk up on him.

Thanks for sharing your opinion without bashing... some people wouldn't be so nice and I don't care for what they have to say.
 
any dead turkey is a good turkey i don't care what LEGAL method you use. congrats on another great bird.
 
Beekeeper said:
WMAn said:
CatMan,

You have supported your decision to shoot the bird off the limb on the basis that it's legal and it's "fair chase" because of the difficulty of getting within range of a roosted tom.

Yes, it is legal. However, legal and illegal with regards to game and fish regulations represents only a minimum standard of conduct enforced by a regulatory agency to prevent sportsmen from doing harm to the game/fish species or harm to each other (public safety). In this case, there are not enough turkey hunters shooting birds off the limb to do harm, and it's not a public safety risk. Also, a good game/fish reg must be easily enforceable so even if a game agency wanted to make it illegal to shoot a bird off the limb. How could they enforce it? The officer would have to be within sight of you and the bird to know that you did it. In this case, turkey hunters are allowed to decide whether it's ok to them or not.

To your fair chase argument, it is not difficult to stalk within gun range of roosted birds especially after green up. Why do turkeys roost in trees? To escape predators. One they are in a tree, flushing from the roost is their absolute, last escape option. You almost have to walk directly underneath him. With leaves on the trees, it becomes a situation where you can't see him until he sees you and by that time you are in range.

"Fair chase" is something we each define, but if your argument here is that getting within gun range of a roosted bird is very difficult, I think you come up short.

Finally, I read your posts with enthusiasm and based on what I can tell you are a fairly new hunter. Most of us when we got started went through a stage where blood was what mattered. We lived for the kill, and we gladly walked the line between legal/illegal or ethical/unethical to get that next one. The rush was yo much for us to restrain.

Over the last few years, I have had the pleasure of introducing a lot of new turkey hunters to the sport we love. Getting them to look beyond the kill is one of the biggest challenges I face. Yes, we are there to harvest a bird and bring meat home. What I teach them though is we each get to decide how we do that. What is legal is our first standard, but individually we should strive for a higher standard than simply what is legal. For me, shooting a bird off the limb does not meet that standard.
Click to expand...
Isn't it a great world we live in where we do not have to meet someone else's standards but only the broader standards set by regulation.

Congrats catman on a fine bird and a good hunt.
Click to expand...

Ha ha always one right Beekeeper? Good Post!
 
I have had the chance more than a few times over the years and have never done it.

I am going to step out of character and just remain quiet on this one.
 
I take em however i can get em, ive shot off the roost before and shot em flying before. The flying shots are extremely easy when you can make turkey drives during the fall:)
 
I killed a couple that way when I first got started. Its just too much fun calling them in now to shoot them out of the tree. Congrats though on a Public land bird.
 
Congrats man! Nice bird!

I've let ONE fly down that I could have shot off roost that I never got a second chance at, and I'll gurantee you I won't let the next one get away so easily ;) . Maybe if I had some private property loaded with birds like some people have, or if I got to take off a whole bunch of time to hunt like some have the luxury to do, or if I had pretty much any means of killing more than a bird or 2 a year in the limited amount of time and resources that I have to go hunting, I may pass up the ever so slightly easier route to bag a bird. But til then, I'm doing whatever it takes to put some meat in the freezer and get satisfaction out of my hunt :)
 
Like i said i personally dont care to do it but hey if it is something you are fine with by all means. legal is legal.

having said that, lets at least call a spade a spade. Turkeys have terrible night vision and depend on hearing in the low light conditions. so sneaking up on a turkey in the dark on a windy morning in full greenage is not a ton of skill.

having said THAT, its not a contest of skill as each hunter has different purposes. I know catman is a true meat guy so i got no issues with how or what he did for the bird. I believe his intentions were pure.

I am more surprised Setterhook kept his opinions to himself on the subject hahahahah

I am also impressed this has not turned into a full on debate yet as i know this is a very touchy subject to some
 
Nice bird, congrats to ya.
As far as shooting them off the roost............never done it and probably never will, but.......i'm fortunate that I can step out the back door and be turkey hunting on my own property. I know that if I see a Tom and don't get him that particular day I can "probably" have an encounter with him another day. You can't say that hunting public property or on property where someone else is going to be hunting. I don't blame you one bit, hunting public property is a whole nuther ball game.
I say whatever floats your boat, if you feel ok doing it, if you are within the law, and are going to eat the meat, have at it!!
Again, congrats on a nice bird.
 

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