Adjust season start date?

[woodsman04]

Whatever helps the birds is fine with me, but the start of the season isn't the issue

Alabama had a million turkeys then legalized decoys. Nothing made those gobblers using large ag fields easier for basically anyone to kill. If you want more gobblers eliminate the plastic turkeys. Harvest numbers will decline in a big way leaving more gobblers at the end of each season. This isn't rocket science and the decoys alllow tons of hunters who wouldn't normally have success to fill tags

I agree with this but that wish will never happen because the money involved.

It's sad to say that the guys getting paid to make decisions will probably be the ones to allow turkeys to become like quail


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[Andy S.]

.............turkeys to become like quail

This is my biggest fear, regardless of which state we are talking about.

 

[Spurhunter]

As long as the state allows legal killing of hens, any discussion about helping turkey populations is an absolute joke. Until the state decides to fix it, the conversation is a waste of time. If they want to fix it, everyone knows how to do it. Two things you must do are: 1) Protect hens. Make it illegal to kill a hen. Period.
2) Make jake killing only legal for youth.

After that you can debate a list of possibilities such as: ending fall hunting temporarily or permanently, counting fall gobblers towards a yearly bag limit, dropping bag limits for a few years, shortening the season by a week or two, outlawing decoys and fanning, etc.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I'd be ok with slipping the start date if the study/research showed a strong likelihood of good outcomes. But as several of you have noted, there are SO MANY other proven interventions that could yield greater positive impact. As well, I wouldn't expect that a single action like moving the start date would necessarily reverse the slide; it clearly appears to be a combination of factors.

 

[woodsman04]

As long as the state allows legal killing of hens, any discussion about helping turkey populations is an absolute joke. Until the state decides to fix it, the conversation is a waste of time. If they want to fix it, everyone knows how to do it. Two things you must do are: 1) Protect hens. Make it illegal to kill a hen. Period.
2) Make jake killing only legal for youth.

After that you can debate a list of possibilities such as: ending fall hunting temporarily or permanently, counting fall gobblers towards a yearly bag limit, dropping bag limits for a few years, shortening the season by a week or two, outlawing decoys and fanning, etc.

Agree with this. I do not believe fall
Killing of hens has a big impact but it does some. It has to. Dead hens don't reproduce.

I'd be happy with them making it illegal to kill hens, that would at least show that they care enough to make a change.


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[woodsman04]

.............turkeys to become like quail

This is my biggest fear, regardless of which state we are talking about.

Yea. The only thing turkeys have going for them that the quail don't is that when turkeys do get big, predation on them goes down. Everything eats baby quail and adult quail. Everything eats turkey poults and just a few things eat adult turkeys.


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[megalomaniac]

I don't give a $hit what they do anymore. I'm done with worrying about our gross mismanagement of turkeys in TN. I'm just planning on killing every single one of the last few toms we have left, hopefully before any hens get bred. Hoping to get my limit the first 4 days of the season, then make sure all my friends get theirs. Still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to stoop down to the level of shooting jakes. I want to, but ethically I'm having a hard time justifying it.

Now if we want to fix the problem, and reverse the population decline, it isn't hard. I've posted very simple solutions in the past to ensure we have turkeys to hunt in TN forever. Nothing but crickets, so I've given up and just plan on killing like crazy until the last one is gone.

 

[MrClif]

I would support moving the dates back some. A issue I don't see discussed much is habit loss. I read a article a few years back about the decline of turkeys in SC because of much of the clearing of the land had stopped because of demand for wood product and environmental issues. Said the paper companies had stopped a lot of clear cutting that was used by the turkeys for nesting and bugs. I've seen this with deer and turkey on National Forest lands. I remember it also talking about how great of a impact Hurricane Hugo was for the coastal & middle parts of SC as it knocked down lots of trees and opened up the Forrest floor.

I think habitat is the key issue that no one talks about. Turkeys benefit from clear and select cut, as well as burns. This creates optimal nesting and/or breeding habitat.

Besides residential/commercial land, the worst land for turkeys is big ag fields. No turkey is benefitting one bit from a big desolate ag field, except maybe right after harvest and right at planting.


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To much clearing and burning in the same areas has negative effects on good nesting areas, and I disagree with the ag fields look at Kansas if you've never been there they have a booming population and little to no timber much less clear cuts. I know prescribed burns,thinning and clearing are needed and good when done in moderation but alot of our National Forests in Alabama are reburning same areas over and over and not letting any cover to get established for nesting areas.

 

[UpperTully]

Just my 2 cents.

I don't feel the season dates are the problem. I feel gross mismanagement is the issue.

This statewide 4 bird bag limit is about as much of a crock as this blanket approach on Unit L with deer. There needs to be specific units created with reduced bag limits especially in the counties where no fall hunting is allowed.

Stop trapping birds and sending them to other states. Just 4 years ago TWRA was trapping birds from low population counties that should be receiving birds in an effort to restock.

Eliminate fall turkey season statewide.

 

[Setterman]

Now that I've got some more time I'll elaborate on some of the issues facing turkeys here and elsewhere in my opinion.

1. Decoys, they allow hunters who normally wouldn't kill squat to have success and lots of it.
2. Decoys make harvesting the toughest birds possible. Birds that would normally survive and breed lots of hens are dead quickly.
3. Long range shooters, how many birds are being killed that back before HTL were given a pass because of range?
4. In states that allow deer baiting those states are also seeing a rapid decline in turkey populations.
5. Gross mismanagement in TN. Absolutely no logic used in our regulations

All of those factors can be controlled. Yet none are. Want to address the turkey decline address those first and formost.

 

[woodsman04]

I would support moving the dates back some. A issue I don't see discussed much is habit loss. I read a article a few years back about the decline of turkeys in SC because of much of the clearing of the land had stopped because of demand for wood product and environmental issues. Said the paper companies had stopped a lot of clear cutting that was used by the turkeys for nesting and bugs. I've seen this with deer and turkey on National Forest lands. I remember it also talking about how great of a impact Hurricane Hugo was for the coastal & middle parts of SC as it knocked down lots of trees and opened up the Forrest floor.

I think habitat is the key issue that no one talks about. Turkeys benefit from clear and select cut, as well as burns. This creates optimal nesting and/or breeding habitat.

Besides residential/commercial land, the worst land for turkeys is big ag fields. No turkey is benefitting one bit from a big desolate ag field, except maybe right after harvest and right at planting.


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To much clearing and burning in the same areas has negative effects on good nesting areas, and I disagree with the ag fields look at Kansas if you've never been there they have a booming population and little to no timber much less clear cuts. I know prescribed burns,thinning and clearing are needed and good when done in moderation but alot of our National Forests in Alabama are reburning same areas over and over and not letting any cover to get established for nesting areas.

I wasn't saying burning and clear cutting over and over, I meant on a rotational basis. I believe you are right but I've never seen a place that burns the same place every year?

No one and nothing can convince me that large ag fields are quality turkey habitat. Corn field from mid May until they cut it in August or September is a turkey desert. Cotton field from May to October is a turkey desert. Bean field from whenever they get big until they cut it is a turkey desert. Wheat field from late April until they cut it is a turkey desert. Hay fields are bad for turkeys when they are tall, and when they get tall any hen and nest in there is going to get demolished.

Also big ag is clearing so much hedge row, fence line, and whatever for more crops. Less quail and turkey habitat again.

The only time a large ag field is good for turkeys would be a bean or corn field after harvest and at planting, and a wheat field after harvest and at planting. And I still do not think it is great. If the fields were smaller it may help. Most of the times our turkeys, eastern wild turkeys, are only going to use the edges and pockets of these fields.

I really don't think you can compare a Rio grande turkey, which I know not much about, and our eastern that are way more skittish of huge fields.




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[woodsman04]

I would support moving the dates back some. A issue I don't see discussed much is habit loss. I read a article a few years back about the decline of turkeys in SC because of much of the clearing of the land had stopped because of demand for wood product and environmental issues. Said the paper companies had stopped a lot of clear cutting that was used by the turkeys for nesting and bugs. I've seen this with deer and turkey on National Forest lands. I remember it also talking about how great of a impact Hurricane Hugo was for the coastal & middle parts of SC as it knocked down lots of trees and opened up the Forrest floor.

I think habitat is the key issue that no one talks about. Turkeys benefit from clear and select cut, as well as burns. This creates optimal nesting and/or breeding habitat.

Besides residential/commercial land, the worst land for turkeys is big ag fields. No turkey is benefitting one bit from a big desolate ag field, except maybe right after harvest and right at planting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To much clearing and burning in the same areas has negative effects on good nesting areas, and I disagree with the ag fields look at Kansas if you've never been there they have a booming population and little to no timber much less clear cuts. I know prescribed burns,thinning and clearing are needed and good when done in moderation but alot of our National Forests in Alabama are reburning same areas over and over and not letting any cover to get established for nesting areas.

I wasn't saying burning and clear cutting over and over, I meant on a rotational basis. I believe you are right but I've never seen a place that burns the same place every year?

No one and nothing can convince me that large ag fields are quality turkey habitat. Corn field from mid May until they cut it in August or September is a turkey desert. Cotton field from May to October is a turkey desert. Bean field from whenever they get big until they cut it is a turkey desert. Wheat field from late April until they cut it is a turkey desert. Hay fields are bad for turkeys when they are tall, and when they get tall any hen and nest in there is going to get demolished.

Also big ag is clearing so much hedge row, fence line, and whatever for more crops. Less quail and turkey habitat again.

The only time a large ag field is good for turkeys would be a bean or corn field after harvest and at planting, and a wheat field after harvest and at planting. And I still do not think it is great. If the fields were smaller it may help. Most of the times our turkeys, eastern wild turkeys, are only going to use the edges and pockets of these fields.

I really don't think you can compare a Rio grande turkey, which I know not much about, and our eastern that are way more skittish of huge fields.




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[woodsman04]

Just my 2 cents.

I don't feel the season dates are the problem. I feel gross mismanagement is the issue.

This statewide 4 bird bag limit is about as much of a crock as this blanket approach on Unit L with deer. There needs to be specific units created with reduced bag limits especially in the counties where no fall hunting is allowed.

Stop trapping birds and sending them to other states. Just 4 years ago TWRA was trapping birds from low population counties that should be receiving birds in an effort to restock.

Eliminate fall turkey season statewide.

Agree, but i myself enjoy fall gobbler hunting, splitting them up and calling them back in, like Tom Kelly of the "Tenth Legion" not bushwhacking, flock sniping, or hen murdering.


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[woodsman04]

Now that I've got some more time I'll elaborate on some of the issues facing turkeys here and elsewhere in my opinion.

1. Decoys, they allow hunters who normally wouldn't kill squat to have success and lots of it.
2. Decoys make harvesting the toughest birds possible. Birds that would normally survive and breed lots of hens are dead quickly.
3. Long range shooters, how many birds are being killed that back before HTL were given a pass because of range?
4. In states that allow deer baiting those states are also seeing a rapid decline in turkey populations.
5. Gross mismanagement in TN. Absolutely no logic used in our regulations

All of those factors can be controlled. Yet none are. Want to address the turkey decline address those first and formost.

Everything you say makes sense you say. And I agree with everything. I just don't see htl and decoys ever going away, because they have too much money pull.


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[Setterman]

Now that I've got some more time I'll elaborate on some of the issues facing turkeys here and elsewhere in my opinion.

1. Decoys, they allow hunters who normally wouldn't kill squat to have success and lots of it.
2. Decoys make harvesting the toughest birds possible. Birds that would normally survive and breed lots of hens are dead quickly.
3. Long range shooters, how many birds are being killed that back before HTL were given a pass because of range?
4. In states that allow deer baiting those states are also seeing a rapid decline in turkey populations.
5. Gross mismanagement in TN. Absolutely no logic used in our regulations

All of those factors can be controlled. Yet none are. Want to address the turkey decline address those first and formost.

Everything you say makes sense you say. And I agree with everything. I just don't see htl and decoys ever going away, because they have too much money pull.


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Oh, I've got no delusions they're going away. Just providing my opinions on some of the controllable issues.

 

[Setterman]

Now that I've got some more time I'll elaborate on some of the issues facing turkeys here and elsewhere in my opinion.

1. Decoys, they allow hunters who normally wouldn't kill squat to have success and lots of it.
2. Decoys make harvesting the toughest birds possible. Birds that would normally survive and breed lots of hens are dead quickly.
3. Long range shooters, how many birds are being killed that back before HTL were given a pass because of range?
4. In states that allow deer baiting those states are also seeing a rapid decline in turkey populations.
5. Gross mismanagement in TN. Absolutely no logic used in our regulations

All of those factors can be controlled. Yet none are. Want to address the turkey decline address those first and formost.

Everything you say makes sense you say. And I agree with everything. I just don't see htl and decoys ever going away, because they have too much money pull.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, I've got no delusions they're going away. Just providing my opinions on some of the controllable issues.

 

[bowhunterfanatic]

If they move season to a later date it would prolly ruin it for me. I won't say I want go but it sure wouldn't be a priority.

I'm right there with you. We obviously hunting the same birds. First week or two is always the best hunting for us as well.

 

[TheLBLman]

First week or two is always the best hunting for us as well.

Whenever that first weeks begins, it might remain your "best"
even if it did begin a week or two later?

IMO, it is in part "best" simply because it's the first week the birds get messed with
by turkey-calling, owl-hooting "hunters".

 

[bowhunterfanatic]

First week or two is always the best hunting for us as well.

Whenever that first weeks begins, it might remain your "best"
even if it did begin a week or two later?

IMO, it is in part "best" simply because it's the first week the birds get messed with
by turkey-calling, owl-hooting "hunters".

Don't think that's the case. Most of my experience is on two large farms that aren't receiving pressure from anyone else. Most of our birds are done gobbling by the first of May in a typical year, and I invite everyone who will inevitably tell me I'm wrong to come experience it for themselves. Even in instances where I've not hunted a farm for an entire season and go check it late season on a whim, when I find a gobbler, he's typically alone, and about as interested in any type of calling as I am basket weaving. 98% of my hunting is field hunting however, so I suppose that could be contributing to my experiences.

 

[deerfever]

I am wondering how bad has our harvest data has fallen off the last 5 years in TN? I think seeing the numbers of how bad it has declined and how many less birds we have harvested over that period of time could convince the TWRA to cut the fall season or ban decoys or whatever is necessary to get our population back to where it needs to be. Does anyone have a chart or the numbers they could share to show how bad the decline has been state wide? I would like to see that as it may open some eyes, I have hunted them since I was in Middle school and will go along with whatever to make sure the population stays healthy for my son and others in the future! I do know as Setterman has pointed out at one time Alabama did not allow decoys at all and that never bothered me or stopped me from going every year(I do not use them anyway), I will not be going this year because two of the WMA I frequent are part of the later season this year and do not open until juvy weekend in Tn.