Alabama leading the way

[Spurhunter]

Thanks for suggesting Chamberlain. I googled him and found the transcript of his presentation to the Alabama Conservation Advisory Board. Everyone on here should read it if you haven't already. Answered a lot of my questions. For one, it does make a difference if the dominant tom is killed, based on his research. Read to find out why. I am posting the link here. Clearly the thing to do, based on his research, is to back the starting date of the season up. Tennessee has already done so, one weekend later and maybe should move it another. Then it wouldn't matter whether decoys are used or not.

Start Turkey Season Later? Top Researcher Made Case To Alabama Advisory Board

Last August, Dr. Michael Chamberlain gave a detailed presentation to Alabama’s Conservation Advisory Board (CAB) explaining research that …

aonmag.com

The dominant male turkey ladder is fascinating. He has an EXCELLENT podcast interview on Meateater. Check that out as well.

 

[Roost 1]

You've obviously forgotten more about turkeys and turkey hunting than I've ever known, and I 100% don't mean that in jest. But riddle me this. I know from years of posts that you spend most of your time in TN hunting the CNF, and I know from reading years of your posts that the hunting there is a far cry from what it used to be. Now, I've never hunted CNF, or anything close to it for that matter, but I'm quite certain that googans with decoys aren't killing all the turkeys in those mountains. So if decoys aren't the cause behind the massive decline in birds where you hunt, why are you so adamant and certain that it's the cause everywhere else?

I totally understand your disdain for people who don't have a clue what a traditional turkey hunt looks like, but I just can't wrap my head around how so many people on here that hunt nothing but hardwoods think that outlawing decoys is going to magically mean there are more turkeys in said woods. The older I get and the more "turkey hunters" I meet, some of which I've known to kill a lot of birds over the years, the more I realize just how many get killed over a pile of bait. I'd gladly be willing to wager that bait piles are responsible for just as many if not more turkeys dying than decoys.

I have been screaming this for years, but NOBODY wants to talk about this subject. Fact of the matter is this, the strutting decoy is sitting in the bait pile......I'll agree with Setterman and Andy 100 percent on their views on decoys.

 

[Roost 1]

Baiting is so over rated for turkeys. During spring they search for the best breeding/nesting/brooding areas. Insects are the only thing turkey poults eat. So the hens go to nest in good bugging areas.

I mean yea, wild turkeys love agricultural grain. But it isn't near as effective of killing method as a full strut decoy in a cow pasture.

Unless they are baited early in season...….which most are.

 

[TheLBLman]

Unless they are baited early in season...….which most are.

Yep.

 

[timberjack86]

I've never hunted CNF, but do hunt the public mountain lands along the KY border. Our populations are just fine, they've dipped a little but are really in pretty good shape. I worry about the entire flock here, Bama, GA, KY as I hunt it all and want the numbers where they were.

I don't disagree on the bait pile killers. It's always an issue and a big one, but it's illegal now and always has been. So I'm not sure how that can be managed.

I am always skeptical of trail cam pics posted this time of year as turkeys aren't easy to capture unless something draws them to a spot

This is the first I've heard of a decline in the national forest?? A strutter decoy there would be useless except getting you shot! With the rugged terrain, if you don't depend on traditional skill you will probably not tag a turkey.

 

[FatTire]

I can tell you with certainty that the changes are not welcomed or appreciated by the Alabama turkey hunting crowd. The vast majority of Alabama turkey hunters i know would never use a decoy. Our birds run like hell from them. I can assure you they save more lives than they take. TX,MT,WY,NE i would not hunt without one but you wont catch me with one in Bama.

Taking the days away is the biggest issue with most hunters. Most will give up one bird without a fight but taking the days away is the line in the sand. I have hunted from one end of Alabama to the other. Its much different that TN in that the birds are in multiple stages of the cycle through out the state depending on how far north or south they are.

North central AL where i live shares the issues with south central TN. Our birds vanished starting around 2008-2010. I have my belief in what the problem was but its not a popular opinion. TN has made a smart decision to decrease the days in those 4 counties since it is warranted by research. Alabama throws a blanket over the whole state when a few areas are suffering and others are fine and should be left alone.

 

[woodsman04]

I can tell you with certainty that the changes are not welcomed or appreciated by the Alabama turkey hunting crowd. The vast majority of Alabama turkey hunters i know would never use a decoy. Our birds run like hell from them. I can assure you they save more lives than they take. TX,MT,WY,NE i would not hunt without one but you wont catch me with one in Bama.

Taking the days away is the biggest issue with most hunters. Most will give up one bird without a fight but taking the days away is the line in the sand. I have hunted from one end of Alabama to the other. Its much different that TN in that the birds are in multiple stages of the cycle through out the state depending on how far north or south they are.

North central AL where i live shares the issues with south central TN. Our birds vanished starting around 2008-2010. I have my belief in what the problem was but its not a popular opinion. TN has made a smart decision to decrease the days in those 4 counties since it is warranted by research. Alabama throws a blanket over the whole state when a few areas are suffering and others are fine and should be left alone.

Alabama folks are upset about it. Some rightfully so, and some are not listening or thinking clearly. Something neeeded to be done or needs to be done. Houston, Geneva, Mobile, Clarke and all the extreme southern counties are totally different from Jackson, limestone, lauderdale , and all the extreme northern counties.
the select extreme north hasn't had a turkey season but only for about the past 25 years or so. And has always opened later.
I don't understand why Alabama can't make a north and south zone, or even a north south and central zone.

Tennessee has done the right thing in the southern four counties. They used to be the strongest counties probably in the country to turkey hunt in. I'm beginning to think years of over harvest at the wrong time of spring has just taken it's toll.

 

[FatTire]

Agree for sure on the idea that populations in some areas of North Alabama were not established well enough when they expanded season dates. Limestone started with 5 days in either 1997 or 1998. them went to 10 for days for a couple of years followed by kick the door open to a full 30 day season. Limestone has small land ownership 25-100 acres with lots of hunters. They were wiped out. No one coon hunts anymore so that population has exploded along with urban expansion bringing their dogs and cats to run down poults. Throw in a couple bad hatch years along with disease and poof they are gone.

 

[Dennis]

Clearly the single most important step we could take to save more turkeys is to ban Thanksgiving. If that doesn't work, the next step should be to ban calls and camouflage. Those clearly give an unfair advantage to the hunter. Hopefully we never have to take a third step, because that would call for some drastic measures.

 

[PalsPal]

I can tell you with certainty that the changes are not welcomed or appreciated by the Alabama turkey hunting crowd. The vast majority of Alabama turkey hunters i know would never use a decoy. Our birds run like hell from them. I can assure you they save more lives than they take. TX,MT,WY,NE i would not hunt without one but you wont catch me with one in Bama.

Taking the days away is the biggest issue with most hunters. Most will give up one bird without a fight but taking the days away is the line in the sand. I have hunted from one end of Alabama to the other. Its much different that TN in that the birds are in multiple stages of the cycle through out the state depending on how far north or south they are.

North central AL where i live shares the issues with south central TN. Our birds vanished starting around 2008-2010. I have my belief in what the problem was but its not a popular opinion. TN has made a smart decision to decrease the days in those 4 counties since it is warranted by research. Alabama throws a blanket over the whole state when a few areas are suffering and others are fine and should be left alone.

Thank you for taking the time to post that level-headed, non-condescending information.

 

[Rancocas]

Most everyone here seems to assume the cause of the turkey decline is overhunting, or hunting over decoys. Maybe. Maybe not.
How about predation? Coyotes, raccoons, opossums, and skunks are terrific at finding turkey nests and eating the eggs, and at least the coyotes will kill and eat turkey if they have the chance.
With fur prices being so low for years now, not as many people bother to go trapping. One result is a proliferation of furbearers such as the coyote and raccoon and others.
I get pictures of 5 raccoons, 1 or 2 opossums, and sometimes 1 gray fox on my trail cam almost every night. Two feral cats hang around here also. I saw one of them catch a sparrow. I'm sure they will kill and eat turkey poults whenever they can.

 

[REN]

Most everyone here seems to assume the cause of the turkey decline is overhunting, or hunting over decoys. Maybe. Maybe not.
How about predation? Coyotes, raccoons, opossums, and skunks are terrific at finding turkey nests and eating the eggs, and at least the coyotes will kill and eat turkey if they have the chance.
With fur prices being so low for years now, not as many people bother to go trapping. One result is a proliferation of furbearers such as the coyote and raccoon and others.
I get pictures of 5 raccoons, 1 or 2 opossums, and sometimes 1 gray fox on my trail cam almost every night. Two feral cats hang around here also. I saw one of them catch a sparrow. I'm sure they will kill and eat turkey poults whenever they can.

without question that is also a factor. Nature has a way to balance all things and with the big boom of turkeys due to perfect conditions years ago, nature balanced by having more predator success rates and birth numbers. once the numbers started to decline the the pred population became once again unbalanced. However just from a biological stand point that will also start to balance naturally over time. With less food the predator population will start do get thinner naturally.

Now to make it even more complex, land profiles have also changed during that time frame with more residential areas and more select cut areas which has in turn boomed the snake and small mammal populations. SO once the turkey population started to go down, those predators could then still thrive on the new abundance of other animals thus not allowing the natural population control.

Thats all obviously a broad stroke and doesnt apply to all areas. Nest predators are far more an impact factor vs coyote or bobcat % though even if a lot of hunters dont want to believe that.

 

[kbradley]

Clearly the single most important step we could take to save more turkeys is to ban Thanksgiving. If that doesn't work, the next step should be to ban calls and camouflage. Those clearly give an unfair advantage to the hunter. Hopefully we never have to take a third step, because that would call for some drastic measures.

Are turkeys over hunted and/or over harvested ? I do not know , not many hunters kill out . We all know of hunters that brag in their circles of killing and never checking in of birds and then just go on and on , hunting . If I could prove they did that , I would probably turn them in . Turkey hunting is the best thing that happened to this state in the hunting category in my 64 year lifetime . Let me tell you , whether I killed out within three weeks of opening day or the last day of the season , I had hunted so hard and was so tired that I was relieved it was over . A fellow can have too much fun and excitement . Whatever the problem , i hope they figure it out soon .

 

[redblood]

They are talking about all of them, but to your point the strutters, HD jakes, etc are what have turned the tide big time. the Old school cheap foam things look pretty rough where the new high end decoys look alive

however, I could live with hen decoys being legal, but outlaw all male decoys period

I could care less either way, as i have never had luck with decoy and dont use facebook. But was this done for safety?