Another Angle on KY dominating TN in turkey management

[Fleet Fox]

Not to mention it makes great ambush cover for predators, come to think of it didn't something happen with a gobbler recently....

Add to it, if managing for deer and turkeys includes fescue then very little management is actually occurring

if you look at it that way, good nesting cover also makes good ambush cover, as does a strutting gobblers tail fan. You haven't seen the food plots or the hardwoods or thickets, you've only seen the couple of spots in the video which are fescue.

I know last years poult recruitment was good because FF saw a group of 12 jakes earlier this spring...


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Poult recruitment was outstanding on the public land I hunt, that's not an issue. It's the harvest outweighs recruitment along with natural mortality.

Every property I've ever managed we eradicate every single blade of fescue, it's not tolerated, period.

Planting food plots doesn't equate to flawless management. For some reason people feel that when they plant plots they're now really managing the propety. They're just one tiny aspect of management

Considering that was my neighbors cow pasture, I will disregard your statements. How in the world are you not writing books or making millions off your knowledge of turkeys and wildlife? I don't understand why you aren't on television shows or in colleges teaching this stuff. I mean, you forgot more than I already know. That's so impressive. Will you be signing autographs anywhere around Nashville soon?

 

[muddyboots]

Despise fescue. Lol

 

[Roost 1]

FF, please don't take this wrong but I believe Setterman is just trying to be helpful... Mind sets are going to have to change..
But honestly, he has prolly forgotten more than you will ever know about the subject at hand...

 

[Setterman]

Considering that was my neighbors cow pasture, I will disregard your statements. How in the world are you not writing books or making millions off your knowledge of turkeys and wildlife? I don't understand why you aren't on television shows or in colleges teaching this stuff. I mean, you forgot more than I already know. That's so impressive. Will you be signing autographs anywhere around Nashville soon?

Question, if you have this panacea of habitat management why are the turkeys on your neighbors instead of concentrating on this mecca you've created?

I'd love to hear more about what habitat improvements you've done, how that's changed the wildlife densities on your property, and why turkeys are exploding on your property rather then what's going on all over the rest of the state. Maybe even very experienced folks such as myself can learn a tip or two, I along with lots of other posters certainly have had some great success managing properties, but there's always room to learn new stuff.

A little background on my roots in the game since you seem to not understand where I'm coming from. I've spent the better part of the last 25 years managing several large tracts of land in AL and GA. The one in AL we started with trying to improve the deer herd which began way before QDM even existed. We started very basic and worked all the way up to nutrition, targeted TSI projects, predator reduction, etc. From there my interest grew and it spilled over to turkeys. Applying the same sort of formulas the property is now literally a wildlife mecca. There isn't a single acre that isn't thought out on the property. In GA currently I "work" with several buddies on another very large tract (3000+ acres) that when we started was monoculture pines and trash hardwoods predominantly. After 15 years the property not only boasts large turkey populations, perfectly balanced deer herds, but a large and sustaining quail population which is really rare if you follow wildlife trends in the SE. In a county where a 130" deer is legendary we are regularly killing bucks over 145" each season. If you don't believe me I've got plenty of pics to prove it. Personally I've spent a ridiculous amount of time and money to not manipulate properties for the betterment of ALL wildlife species, and also spent considerable amounts of time with some of the best in the business learning best practices.


There are many other posters just like me on here, and if you open your eyes many of them are the ones noticing what is happening in this state. See what you don't get, is that when you get over the hump you start to see the big picture, not just what is happening where you hunt.

Do you want to discuss turkey/deer management as well as habitat improvements? I'm good with that, or would you rather be an infant like above? I can roll either way you like, but seeing how this is a topic about the decline of the population statewide I feel we should stay on topic.

 

[catman529]

Just give up Fleet Fox your turkeys will all be gone next year cause you didn't seek advice from the sages. And start putting money in the bank now so you can make the down payment on your tanker truck full of clethadin to kill the fescue.


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[Fleet Fox]

Considering that was my neighbors cow pasture, I will disregard your statements. How in the world are you not writing books or making millions off your knowledge of turkeys and wildlife? I don't understand why you aren't on television shows or in colleges teaching this stuff. I mean, you forgot more than I already know. That's so impressive. Will you be signing autographs anywhere around Nashville soon?

Question, if you have this panacea of habitat management why are the turkeys on your neighbors instead of concentrating on this mecca you've created?

I'd love to hear more about what habitat improvements you've done, how that's changed the wildlife densities on your property, and why turkeys are exploding on your property rather then what's going on all over the rest of the state. Maybe even very experienced folks such as myself can learn a tip or two, I along with lots of other posters certainly have had some great success managing properties, but there's always room to learn new stuff.

Do you want to discuss turkey/deer management as well as habitat improvements? I'm good with that, or would you rather be an infant like above? I can roll either way you like, but seeing how this is a topic about the decline of the population statewide I feel we should stay on topic.

When you decide to act your age and talk to people in a manner that represents an adult, I will gladly treat you like one. Your condescending tone causes me to have to no regard for any information you put on here. If I see less turkeys I will kill less, or no turkeys. They aren't important enough in my life to have to kill a limit every year. Actually I have never killed the limit, or a turkey in the fall.

You act like a bully and get stirred up when others have success. The problem doesn't revolve around me, I merely state the facts of what things look like here. If that causes you stress and heartache, I suggest you scroll on past. State numbers may be down, but changing the limit without addressing the growing problem natural predators have on the population isn't going to help. Don't you normally kill your limit?

 

[Setterman]

Just give up Fleet Fox your turkeys will all be gone next year cause you didn't seek advice from the sages. And start putting money in the bank now so you can make the down payment on your tanker truck full of clethadin to kill the fescue.


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Since you and fleet seem to be experts please elaborate on why fescue is so valuable to wildlife?

This should be good....

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Fescue does suck for more reasons than just turkey

 

[Fleet Fox]

FF, please don't take this wrong but I believe Setterman is just trying to be helpful... Mind sets are going to have to change..
But honestly, he has prolly forgotten more than you will ever know about the subject at hand...

Maybe he has, and that is fine with me. I don't care to know everything about turkeys. I just don't like being lectured because I make a statement that turkeys are doing well around here. If killing 9 turkeys wipes out an entire population on 900 acres within a year or 2 then turkeys probably don't belong here to begin with. We kill an average of 4 to 5 turkeys a year. This year I decided to increase that number because there were so many.

 

[Fleet Fox]

Considering that was my neighbors cow pasture, I will disregard your statements. How in the world are you not writing books or making millions off your knowledge of turkeys and wildlife? I don't understand why you aren't on television shows or in colleges teaching this stuff. I mean, you forgot more than I already know. That's so impressive. Will you be signing autographs anywhere around Nashville soon?

Question, if you have this panacea of habitat management why are the turkeys on your neighbors instead of concentrating on this mecca you've created?

I'd love to hear more about what habitat improvements you've done, how that's changed the wildlife densities on your property, and why turkeys are exploding on your property rather then what's going on all over the rest of the state. Maybe even very experienced folks such as myself can learn a tip or two, I along with lots of other posters certainly have had some great success managing properties, but there's always room to learn new stuff.

A little background on my roots in the game since you seem to not understand where I'm coming from. I've spent the better part of the last 25 years managing several large tracts of land in AL and GA. The one in AL we started with trying to improve the deer herd which began way before QDM even existed. We started very basic and worked all the way up to nutrition, targeted TSI projects, predator reduction, etc. From there my interest grew and it spilled over to turkeys. Applying the same sort of formulas the property is now literally a wildlife mecca. There isn't a single acre that isn't thought out on the property. In GA currently I "work" with several buddies on another very large tract (3000+ acres) that when we started was monoculture pines and trash hardwoods predominantly. After 15 years the property not only boasts large turkey populations, perfectly balanced deer herds, but a large and sustaining quail population which is really rare if you follow wildlife trends in the SE. In a county where a 130" deer is legendary we are regularly killing bucks over 145" each season. If you don't believe me I've got plenty of pics to prove it. Personally I've spent a ridiculous amount of time and money to not manipulate properties for the betterment of ALL wildlife species, and also spent considerable amounts of time with some of the best in the business learning best practices.


There are many other posters just like me on here, and if you open your eyes many of them are the ones noticing what is happening in this state. See what you don't get, is that when you get over the hump you start to see the big picture, not just what is happening where you hunt.

Do you want to discuss turkey/deer management as well as habitat improvements? I'm good with that, or would you rather be an infant like above? I can roll either way you like, but seeing how this is a topic about the decline of the population statewide I feel we should stay on topic.

I know you don't like to post pictures, video hunts, use decoys, blinds or all that other stuff, but you sure do like to toot your own horn. I never said fescue helps anything. I really don't remember mentioning it at all. I just know I'm not going to go out and spend the money to kill every bit of fescue on the farm. That would be pretty dumb. Why do you start a pissing match with anyone who has a little success? That is infantile.

Oh yeah, mainly I just took a 5 pound bag of white clover and spread it on the ground when we had a big frost in Feb. Since then, animals have been lined up like nomads to get here. Crazy how easy it was. And maybe we kill a few birds on the neighbors property because turkeys are there and we have permission to do so. That wasn't an indication that turkeys weren't on the properties I manage.

 

[catman529]

Just give up Fleet Fox your turkeys will all be gone next year cause you didn't seek advice from the sages. And start putting money in the bank now so you can make the down payment on your tanker truck full of clethadin to kill the fescue.


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Since you and fleet seem to be experts please elaborate on why fescue is so valuable to wildlife?

This should be good....

fescue sucks for wildlife and I never said it was good for it.so quit putting words in my mouth and saying "this is going to be good" like I'm some kind of idiot. I suggested the impracticality of killing all or even the majority the fescue on the property. When the critters are doing so well, there's no need to waste the effort on some grass. Most of the place is wooded and some of the fields are either planted in clover, wildflower mix or grazed by cattle. The fescue fields may be only good for strutting toms, but there's plenty of other ground for hens and poults to poke around and forage. After seeing 2 hens missing a lot of feathers and 1 trail of hen feathers and 1 trail of gobbler feathers, the issue appears to be in the predators and still the flock is very strong. And FF is pretty good about killing yotes, I'm not and am still trying to get my first coyote.


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[Setterman]

Fleet if you're wondering why you were greeted with a condescending tone by several not just me in this topic look at your previous posts. We were discussing the issues statewide in s civil manner until you weighed in with your attitude and were called out for it. Now your flailing about attacking me which is fine. I can take it

you need to educate yourself a little before attacking me. Go back and look I've congratulated almost every bird killed this year. You act like I'm vindictive of others success which couldn't be further from the truth.

As I said I'm glad your birds are doing fine, and can relate to your perspective. For years the old timer grouse hunters around here complained numbers were declining. I questioned their views because the numbers were fine where I hunted. Fast forward a few years and now where I hunt the grouse numbers are way down. People with more experience and knowledge saw a trend well before I did. A lesson was learned by me

You can keep lashing out at me if you wish, rest assured I'm not the least bit phased by it. I'd prefer to continue to discuss the real issue that is occurring and the original topic though

 

[arkwaterfowler]

Fleet Fox may be dead wrong about this - I am not going to weigh in.

I will say that greeting others with a combative condescending tone does nothing but split folks apart. I think we all need to remember we have the same basic goal here - see all wildlife, not just turkeys, flourish in our great state.

You can get a lot more with sugar than vinegar - think about it.

 

[woodsman87]

Correct, we all should have the same goal, more wildlife and more hunter opportunity and satisfaction.

But some people are too naive to think that there could be something wrong, and are unwilling to change or listen.

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[woodsman87]

FF, please don't take this wrong but I believe Setterman is just trying to be helpful... Mind sets are going to have to change..
But honestly, he has prolly forgotten more than you will ever know about the subject at hand...

Maybe he has, and that is fine with me. I don't care to know everything about turkeys. I just don't like being lectured because I make a statement that turkeys are doing well around here. If killing 9 turkeys wipes out an entire population on 900 acres within a year or 2 then turkeys probably don't belong here to begin with. We kill an average of 4 to 5 turkeys a year. This year I decided to increase that number because there were so many.

If you have that attitude that they probably should not be there to begin with, you need to quit and do something else.

That is the worst attitude towards turkeys that I have seen besides twra saying it is ok to shoot hens with beards and shoot hens in fall.





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[callemquacktn]

With the public land pressure I've seen lately, I think a lowered limit on some WMAs might even be necessary and cut way back on fall hunting too. Private land is pretty much out of TWRA's control because they can't tell you how many hunters can kill their limit on a particular property.


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Nope but keep banging' them and you will figure it out soon enough..... The younger guys on here should be listening to what the older guys are saying..... All some people know are " the good ol days of turkey hunting", lots of us were around for the tough days as well as the good. I think we can see where this is going.... Trust me Catman you haven't seen bad yet, but without some changes, you will..... Imagine going to your wma of choice and not hearing a bird the whole season.. It can happen and it can happen on private land too...

Spring of 98 was the worst I can ever remember for me. Heard 1 gobble for the whole season. It was mid day and a goose flew over honking. 1 single gobble. That was a tough yr. Never even layed eyes on a male turkey.

 

[Fleet Fox]

FF, please don't take this wrong but I believe Setterman is just trying to be helpful... Mind sets are going to have to change..
But honestly, he has prolly forgotten more than you will ever know about the subject at hand...

Maybe he has, and that is fine with me. I don't care to know everything about turkeys. I just don't like being lectured because I make a statement that turkeys are doing well around here. If killing 9 turkeys wipes out an entire population on 900 acres within a year or 2 then turkeys probably don't belong here to begin with. We kill an average of 4 to 5 turkeys a year. This year I decided to increase that number because there were so many.

If you have that attitude that they probably should not be there to begin with, you need to quit and do something else.

That is the worst attitude towards turkeys that I have seen besides twra saying it is ok to shoot hens with beards and shoot hens in fall.





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I'm not saying you have a hard time comprehending what I say, but you completely missed my point. I know how many turkeys are on the properties I hunt. I will take as many turkeys as I see fit, as long as I don't think it will hurt the population. If taking 9 turkeys off the property this year has a negative impact on the flock, then something else needs to be addressed. I also think you are wrong about me having a bad attitude. I am being positive about the number of turkeys I see. Somehow you turned that into me being the bad guy. We had a great year, and plan to have another one next year considering the amount of young birds running around here. I don't just kill them and hope, by chance, there are more when season rolls around next time.

 

[Fleet Fox]

Fleet if you're wondering why you were greeted with a condescending tone by several not just me in this topic look at your previous posts. We were discussing the issues statewide in s civil manner until you weighed in with your attitude and were called out for it. Now your flailing about attacking me which is fine. I can take it

you need to educate yourself a little before attacking me. Go back and look I've congratulated almost every bird killed this year. You act like I'm vindictive of others success which couldn't be further from the truth.

As I said I'm glad your birds are doing fine, and can relate to your perspective. For years the old timer grouse hunters around here complained numbers were declining. I questioned their views because the numbers were fine where I hunted. Fast forward a few years and now where I hunt the grouse numbers are way down. People with more experience and knowledge saw a trend well before I did. A lesson was learned by me

You can keep lashing out at me if you wish, rest assured I'm not the least bit phased by it. I'd prefer to continue to discuss the real issue that is occurring and the original topic though

Look dude, you are a severe pain. If me saying there are plenty birds around here displays some type of attitude, you see as being a bad thing, then you need to control your temper and avoid me. I do not care if you are God's gift to turkey hunting, as you apparently think you are. My problem is the way you instantly get your feelings hurt and get defensive to a point of being, well, pitiful. We have fun turkey hunting. We like to display the fun we have on here and talk about it. You take the fun out of it with your condescension.

I have a friend that was a great football player in High School and College. Now he is just a normal person, like everyone else. But for some reason, he can't let go of what he used to be and it bothers him to the point of being self-conscience and childishly defensive. You remind me of that.

I am not trying to one-up you. I just want to state the present status of things here without you starting an "I'm better, and know more than you" post. Don't be so insecure, man.

 

[Setterman]

9 birds off 900 acres is a bunch, no matter how many you think are there. It's a living in the moment strategy rather then thinking long term. You know at least one other got drilled by a coyote, so make it 10 for sure.

It's impossibke to know what if any impacts it could have and it may be minimal.

Personally on 900 acres I'd get edgy if 3-4 birds were killed no matter what the densities appear to be. Turkeys move, mast failures followed by harsh winters, predators, diseases, etc all can dramatically impact a property in 6 months time.

A lot also depends on what ages of birds were taken, if they were mostly 2 and 3 year olds, then a significant number of the the next few seasons gobblers are dead.

Each person has to manage the population where they hunt the way they want, but I'd never allow that many birds killed on my places which are 3x larger then this property.

 

[catman529]

Setterman how does 9 mature toms off 900 acres killed after peak breeding hurt the population? Add some coyote killing to protect fawns and poults and that should also help the turkeys. Ask him how many yotes he killed off during the snow storm and he's planning to kill more this summer and I will join whenever I can because I hate the critters.


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