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Baiting Bill HB1618/SB1942

Should baiting be allowed on private land?

  • Yes

    Votes: 193 40.5%
  • No

    Votes: 209 43.9%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 74 15.5%

  • Total voters
    476
But, some "issues" have more to do with ethics than legalities?

Let me pose this question to everyone, and no one in particular.

Let's say your 18-yr-old daughter comes to you this afternoon, and says . . . . . . .

"Dad, I've decided what I'm going to do when I graduate high school!
I'm going to Nevada to start out making 6 figures working in a LEGAL brothel!"


To what extent would it matter to you, that prostitution was "legal"?

My point here is there is much more about this baiting issue than just "legalities",
a lot more about this than whether or not any wildlife if "harmed" or "not harmed".

What about the future of "sport" hunting?

90% of Americans currently don't participate in this "sport",
but we're told we live in a democracy, where majority rules?

What happens when 90% decide ALL hunting is UNETHICAL, CRUEL,
and HURTS animals, so therefore all hunting should be made "illegal"?

Most non-hunters already think killing animals over bait is unethical,
and should be illegal.

"Sport" hunting will not be outlawed over-night because of baiting issues.
But I am certain, the amount of hunting for which you will have "legal" opportunity
will decrease due to the legalization of killing game over bait.
I hear you and appreciate you posing it as a question. IMHO, that analogy is not the best to prove the point. Baiting is currently legal in 22 states. How many states is it legal to prostitute? Most non-hunters (my guess...not a statistic) also oppose guns! They will get the guns LONG before they make any hunting illegal. That's the real focus of those non-hunters. Most don't even know if baiting is legal in their states. If hunting ever becomes outlawed it will be as a result of losing our guns first. My wife and I were talking about this topic last night. What do you say to those who grew up hunting over corn in KY, considering it's been legal for decades? They don't know any other way. Is that unethical? They would take some serious offense to people in TN calling them unethical just because they have the right and we don't. Interesting discussion is the ethics of it all.
 
You obviously have not read this thread.

I started the thread, of course I've kept up with it. I don't bait, I probably wouldn't even it was legal but on both parcels of private land I hunt a 1/4 of it is row crop. We implement wildlife habitat improvements. I applaud everyone that is against it for herd health reasons. But you can see how divided the hunting community is from reading this thread.
 
And if you said, "No", to having to exclusively deer hunting in either TX or KY,
instead of TN,
part of your reason was likely, directly or indirectly, attributed to the fact killing over bait is legal in those two states.

Being "legal" to kill wild game over bait simply overall spawns more negatives than positives to most hunters?
You may be right when it applies to the majority, but it definitely doesn't apply to everyone. I hunt both TX and KY and live and hunt mostly in TN. Not for a second did I go to either due to baiting being legal. In fact, my first trip to south TX was all about baiting and was my last trip there. I got on a waitlist to hunt NW TX on a ranch where they did zero baiting and no trail cameras, and it's where I've taken my biggest trophy to date. A true spot and stalk hunt. I go to KY because it's close and kicks TN's butt when it comes to trophy genetics. They could outlaw baiting in KY tomorrow, and I'd be thrilled. I could take it or leave it, but prefer leaving it...but have I hunted over it in KY...yes.
 
But, some "issues" have more to do with ethics than legalities?

Let me pose this question to everyone, and no one in particular.

Let's say your 18-yr-old daughter comes to you this afternoon, and says . . . . . . .

"Dad, I've decided what I'm going to do when I graduate high school!
I'm going to Nevada to start out making 6 figures working in a LEGAL brothel!"


To what extent would it matter to you, that prostitution was "legal"?

My point here is there is much more about this baiting issue than just "legalities",
a lot more about this than whether or not any wildlife if "harmed" or "not harmed".

What about the future of "sport" hunting?

90% of Americans currently don't participate in this "sport",
but we're told we live in a democracy, where majority rules?

What happens when 90% decide ALL hunting is UNETHICAL, CRUEL,
and HURTS animals, so therefore all hunting should be made "illegal"?

Most non-hunters already think killing animals over bait is unethical,
and should be illegal.

"Sport" hunting will not be outlawed over-night because of baiting issues.
But I am certain, the amount of hunting for which you will have "legal" opportunity
will decrease due to the legalization of killing game over bait.

Very poor comparison. Prostitution and baiting aren't even on the same level of ethics. One being a biblical sin and the other, a choice that has no effect on your moral standing with God.
 
Very poor comparison.
Prostitution and baiting aren't even on the same level of ethics.
Debating prostitution vs poaching was never my intent.

Just using that comparison to point out how being "legal" is not the same as being "ethical".

Almost any unethical behavior can, at the stroke of a pen, be made "legal".
But that doesn't mean it's suddenly a good idea just because it's made "legal".

Most unfortunately, almost nothing is clearly either a 100% good or a 100% bad thing?
So just about every issue becomes a conflict, with some supporting, some not.
THAT's the case with both legalized prostitution and legalized killing over bait.

Legal or not,
proclaiming sex with a prostitute is the same as "love",
is no less disingenuous than say killing a deer over a corn pile is "hunting"?
 
What benefit does it offer WILDLIFE?
it will help wildlife during a bad winter, with prolonged snow cover. ESP during years of low/no mast. HOW you do it is far more critical than IF you do it. scattering corn over a good sized area is best, as biologists will tell you that having multiple turkeys/deer sticking their heads into a confined space of a feeder greatly increases their chances of passing along a disease. that is NOT good for wildlife. JMHO
 
it will help wildlife during a bad winter, with prolonged snow cover. ESP during years of low/no mast. HOW you do it is far more critical than IF you do it. scattering corn over a good sized area is best, as biologists will tell you that having multiple turkeys/deer sticking their heads into a confined space of a feeder greatly increases their chances of passing along a disease. that is NOT good for wildlife. JMHO
No arguments here! I was surprised to read here, though, the claim that supplemental feeding can even actually contribute to starvation. Interesting stuff, regardless if you buy that or not.

 
If hunting ever becomes outlawed it will be as a result of losing our guns first.
I'm going to disagree with you on this, although you are also correct to a point.

In many places, GUN ("sport") deer hunting is already being outlawed and/or greatly diminished in opportunities.

I can give you great examples of those "reduced" opportunities close to home.
Other forms of "outdoor recreation" is rapidly replacing GUN deer hunting, which, to MOST people, is simply another option of "outdoor recreation".

Take a look at any property owned by the federal government, and note the direction GUN deer hunting has trended over the past few decades. In many cases, deer hunting opportunities have been expanded (archery only), while GUN deer hunting opportunities have been decreased.

The trend is a continuous decrease in GUN deer hunting, but not deer hunting.
What may or "could" ultimately change into no "sport" hunting at all by regular citizens.
Deer herds do have to be "controlled", but this role is already being taken over by government employee "shooters" in many places, and that "trend" is accelerating nationwide.

My concern is that killing over bait piles is accelerating the nationwide trend of sport deer hunters being replaced by government employee shooters "to control the deer herds".

Large areas of LBL are already off limits to gun deer hunting. As to the remainder of LBL's entire area, there are only 2 weekends of gun hunting allowed annually. Sure, archery season is open the entire fall. But despite what we may want to think, the "sport" of archery deer hunting is not thriving (nationwide), and may be dying.

Not trying to come across as "chicken little" here, the sky is not falling on deer hunting.
But the nationwide trends should not be ignored.

Gun deer hunting is being replaced with with archery-only deer hunting, and at some point, there may not be a high enough percentage of people interested in deer hunting to keep the "sport" going. This has been "trending" this way while at the same time the 2nd Amendment has actually been trending stronger.
So go figure that one.
 
What do you say to those who grew up hunting over corn in KY, considering it's been legal for decades? They don't know any other way. Is that unethical?
Like I've said before, it's just not as cut & dry as we might wish.
I have many friends who kill deer over corn bait piles in KY, and we're still friends.
But their doing this is not the type deer killing that appeals to me.
It's not ethical for me, at least not under the label of "hunting".

As to they don't know any other way?
Have to disagree.
I suspect most KY deer hunters do not bait.
But if near half do, it certainly seems like "everybody is doing it".
But "everybody" is not, even where "legal".
 
Such an easy concept but an inconvenient truth if you like baiting.

IMO it's both ignorant and arrogant of man to believe he is benefitting deer or any wildlife by feeding them. Deer specifically are designed by God to be selective browsers that roam and nibble on bud tips and leaves, not stand 20min at a pile of corn. The flip side is that selective browsing effectively prunes trees and plants for healthier, better formed growth. Again it's the way God designed it. We call it a symbiotic ecosystem, as in each organism fits like a puzzle piece. We're selfish fools to think we are benefitting anything but ourselves by pouring out bait.
Where you put a foodplot were there wasn't one naturally ..hummm don't guess that's God given but man made , right ? Please most of the things I'll agree with but don't humor me with this type of God given stuff . Opening up the canopy isn't natural either ! My gosh will it not end to think of the things you dream up to bash those who want to bait/feed wildlife . There is no way most of you all's hunting property is natural as God intended so please stick with your other tactics which is scientific factual.
 
This is one of the best posts I've seen on this thread yet. YES to the entire season being archery!! Of Course, we know that will never happen.

That being said, I'll add to your line of thought. I grew up hunting when there were no ATVs, no trail cameras, no fancy deer stands (most were homemade or a Baker stand...lol), no crossbows (heck, even compound bows were new and HIGHLY controversial), and no cell phones to monitor no cell cameras, etc. Some of you remember those days. Now, THAT WAS DEER HUNTING! While none of those things I've mentioned are detrimental to the health of our deer population, they certainly have largely contributed to the increase in our success. So speaking strictly to those whose argument is that we need to "Learn To Hunt" or "It's Hunting Not Killing", and so on...I say you might want to check your own ways of hunting that you've adapted in the past decades. If you've begun using an ATV to access remote hunting areas better, you're using trail cameras to better pattern your deer habits, and you've transitioned from still hunting to a comfortable hang-on or ladder stand from a 20-foot elevation, then you're just as guilty as I am for making it easier to bring home the venison...yet, I'm still just as passionate about it and love it just as much as when we did it like Indians...lol, well, almost anyway.

The point is, YES, a pile of corn will add to the list of making it easier to bring home venison, but so have many other things we ALL do know and take for granted. Excluding the argument that it's detrimental to the health of deer, turkeys, etc. (which apparently isn't an issue in the many other states that allow it, but maybe TN will be different :rolleyes:), it will no doubt add to the list of making it easier like many other things have...primarily easier to bag does and small bucks if that's the way you roll. I echo his last statement, "I don't care how others choose to hunt as long as it's done legally." Legalize it or don't; we'll be okay, guys. You'll add it to your already long list of ways that make it easier to bag a deer, or you won't. Meanwhile, my wife and I are about to head to Hopkinsville, KY for the weekend to move some of those 21' tall ladder stands and make them ready for summer, while riding across 1,000 acres on our SXS, and checking trail cameras for the last inventory check of the season to see which bucks survived...none of which I could have done in my younger years because they didn't exist. They dang sure make it easier to get to the best spots and on the bigger bucks, and we're going to love every second of it. And, when season arrives, if there's corn involved (since it is legal), it will likely enhance the hunting experience just like the ATVs, trail cameras, crossbows, in-line muzzleloaders, fancy deer stands, and all the other ways we've chosen to increase our chances at bagging the smartest animal in North America over the decades. But hey, I'd vote in a heartbeat to go to an archery only season...imagine what that thread would sound like...LOL!
Great post but some will be blinded to your response.
 
Debating prostitution vs poaching was never my intent.

Just using that comparison to point out how being "legal" is not the same as being "ethical".

Almost any unethical behavior can, at the stroke of a pen, be made "legal".
But that doesn't mean it's suddenly a good idea just because it's made "legal".

Most unfortunately, almost nothing is clearly either a 100% good or a 100% bad thing?
So just about every issue becomes a conflict, with some supporting, some not.
THAT's the case with both legalized prostitution and legalized killing over bait.

Legal or not,
proclaiming sex with a prostitute is the same as "love",
is no less disingenuous than say killing a deer over a corn pile is "hunting"?
You sir have stepped beyond the line. Having immoral sex in no way biblically called "love" especially with a prostitute ! Now some may think they fall in love with their prostitute but she loves money , period ! Actually it's a double sin not just wrong and not just unethical. Your comparison needs an adjustment , please .
 
Where you put a foodplot were there wasn't one naturally ..hummm don't guess that's God given but man made , right ? Please most of the things I'll agree with but don't humor me with this type of God given stuff . Opening up the canopy isn't natural either ! My gosh will it not end to think of the things you dream up to bash those who want to bait/feed wildlife . There is no way most of you all's hunting property is natural as God intended so please stick with your other tactics which is scientific factual.
If you know the book of Genesis you know the good Lord told man to be stewards of the land and cultivate it. So how can you compare habitat improvement and cultivation of the land to feeders and corn piles?
 
If you know the book of Genesis you know the good Lord told man to be stewards of the land and cultivate it. So how can you compare habitat improvement and cultivation of the land to feeders and corn piles?
His post said it was the way God intended , right ? Now hindsight if he didn't deer hunt would he put out a foodplots ? Answer that within yourself and I'll accept the answer. I could be wrong and I am I'm human but I do believe God was talking about feeding themselves .
 
His post said it was the way God intended , right ? Now hindsight if he didn't deer hunt would he put out a foodplots ? Answer that within yourself and I'll accept the answer. I could be wrong and I am I'm human but I do believe God was talking about feeding themselves .
I'm sorry but I don't follow you. Even if the motive behind someone's kill plots and someone else's baiting are the same, only one is quite possibly detrimental to the wildlife while the other opens up canopy to provide edge habit where all kinds of wildlife thrive for many months outside of deer season. So doesn't one demonstrate stewardship while the other does not?
 
Where you put a foodplot were there wasn't one naturally ..hummm don't guess that's God given but man made , right ? Please most of the things I'll agree with but don't humor me with this type of God given stuff . Opening up the canopy isn't natural either ! My gosh will it not end to think of the things you dream up to bash those who want to bait/feed wildlife . There is no way most of you all's hunting property is natural as God intended so please stick with your other tactics which is scientific factual.
Snake....with all due respect....closed canopy forest are not necessarily natural in the southeast...not at all....research southeastern grasslands, oak savanahs, and native prairies in the southeast...yes blocks of forest are natural!!..but continuous closed canopy forest is not great for wildlife at all...think diversity....we stopped allowing fire on the landscape years ago and we plowed under every grassland we have....then we dont burn or allow fires to burn...and many dont harvest or manage timber....canopys close up and its actually not natural....for the area I'm in anyway....Im not in the mountains.
And I'm not dreaming this stuff up either.
Go ahead and support baiting...you feel good about it...and thats ok...I think its a terrible idea....and thats ok....we will never agree on this topic....and thats fine too....no disrespect meant...just sharing what I've studied over the years and what I've seen work.
 
We many pages past on this thread went from the "baiting" topic
to way off into the weeds?

Count me among the guilty into turning this thread into one about religion, prostitution, and now snakes in the grass.

Snake....with all due respect....closed canopy forest are not necessarily natural in the southeast...not at all....research southeastern grasslands, oak savanahs, and native prairies in the southeast...

As recently as as the mid-1800s, and going back hundreds if not thousands of years prior to that, much of Tennessee & Kentucky were vast grassland prairies, not vast forests.

Until about 1850, much of what is now LBL was a vast oak savannah, i.e more grasslands than woods.

But the weed was good weed.
😃
There was no johnsongrass, no fescue.

Currently, efforts are ongoing to restore native oak savannas within parts of LBL, the Catoosa WMA, and other both public & private land tracts in Tennessee.
 
I'm sorry but I don't follow you. Even if the motive behind someone's kill plots and someone else's baiting are the same, only one is quite possibly detrimental to the wildlife while the other opens up canopy to provide edge habit where all kinds of wildlife thrive for many months outside of deer season. So doesn't one demonstrate stewardship while the other does not?
Did not doubt that asked a question that wasn't answered but that's ok . Once again and to you as well would you spend the money and time for foodplots if you didn't hunt the deer ?
 

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