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baiting in Tennessee

Pilchard said:
Yes you hurt my feelings. I am taking this very personal :) I'm not sure how I'll carry on.

If you read back through our interactions I stated my position and your reactions have been:

  • Telling me I use terrible logic
  • Saying to read a dictionary
  • Saying I appear uneducated
  • Telling us you have a big fishing rod and that you use it to destroy vaginas
  • Citing your authority due to your degree
  • Never once intelligently reacting to the explaination of my thinking other than saying you're a debate expert
You should have your students read this thread as part of your curriculum.

One last genuine question and then I'll be done out of respect for the actual conversation happening in this thread:
If bait is the same thing in hunting and fishing, why can you be successful without bait in hunting but it is a requirement to have a successful day of fishing?
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I don't mean to sound disrespectful, and I have no interest in baiting deer, but, how can you say that bait is necessary for a successful day of fishing? There are all kinds of methods to catch fish. Nets, spear fishing, grappling, bowfishing, etc. None of which use bait. baiting a hook is one method of fishing, just like baiting deer is one method of successfully killing deer.
 
I won't get into the current debate of the definition of a word. However, to me, the name of the game is conservation. A food plot regardless of how big or small provides food for a larger variety of wildlife than a pile of corn in my opinion. Additionally, come July, that overgrown wheat and rye provides nesting cover for poults and fawns as well as other animals. The corn pile just provides food to several species of animals but no cover, no real nutrients, or soil improvement. I think both have their respective places for use in a conservationist's toolbox. So long as a person's legal, I have zero issues with how they manage their land and their respective goals.
 
DMD (formerly pastorbmp) said:
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, and I have no interest in baiting deer, but, how can you say that bait is necessary for a successful day of fishing? There are all kinds of methods to catch fish. Nets, spear fishing, grappling, bowfishing, etc. None of which use bait. baiting a hook is one method of fishing, just like baiting deer is one method of successfully killing deer.
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I thought it was assumed we were talking about angling with a rod and reel given the original comparison and mention of bait.

Edited to add the original comment that this was in reaction to:

FTP said:
Using logic and reason... it's NO different than using bait fishing. Y'all caught any crappie on an empty hook?
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When I first got my little place, 7.2 acres, I got a couple feeders up, and some salt blocks in. The feeders were non auto, so they had to manually release the corn, I have to say I don't think a single deer hit the feeder, and it was up for about 2-3 months before season opener. An auto feeder may have produced better results but the mineral blocks worked out great and have not needed a feeder at all.
 
Thelonegoose said:
I won't get into the current debate of the definition of a word. However, to me, the name of the game is conservation. A food plot regardless of how big or small provides food for a larger variety of wildlife than a pile of corn in my opinion. Additionally, come July, that overgrown wheat and rye provides nesting cover for poults and fawns as well as other animals. The corn pile just provides food to several species of animals but no cover, no real nutrients, or soil improvement. I think both have their respective places for use in a conservationist's toolbox. So long as a person's legal, I have zero issues with how they manage their land and their respective goals.
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"A food plot regardless of how big or small provides food for a larger variety of wildlife than a pile of corn in my opinion. Additionally, come July, that overgrown wheat and rye provides nesting cover for poults and fawns as well as other animals. The corn pile just provides food to several species of animals but no cover, no real nutrients, or soil improvement."

^^ Well said....great points to consider in this conversation.
 
Thelonegoose said:
I won't get into the current debate of the definition of a word. However, to me, the name of the game is conservation. A food plot regardless of how big or small provides food for a larger variety of wildlife than a pile of corn in my opinion. Additionally, come July, that overgrown wheat and rye provides nesting cover for poults and fawns as well as other animals. The corn pile just provides food to several species of animals but no cover, no real nutrients, or soil improvement. I think both have their respective places for use in a conservationist's toolbox. So long as a person's legal, I have zero issues with how they manage their land and their respective goals.
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That's worth noting. Corn offers little in the way of nutritional value aside from carbohydrates. I might add there's a difference between supplemental feeding and baiting with corn. While corn is often included in supplemental feed, it also commonly has other grains and protein pellets which do actually provide nutrition. I'm not advocating one way or the other, just pointing out that baiting and supplemental feeding are two very different things.
 
Most of you guys have forgotten more about deer, deer hunting, deer management, etc than I'll ever know. That said, corn has little, if any, nutritional value to any animal, human, deer, or others. I've read it can also be harmful to a deer's digestive tract. Think about it, although entirely different animals and digestive tracts, if you eat a lot of corn, corn meal, corn chips, high fructose corn syrup, and generally a corn-based diet (which most Americans have, whether they know it or not), you are most likely overweight and unhealthy. I think there's gotta be some correlation. But like I said, I'm by no means an expert.
 
I just wish the twra had enough man power to enforce the laws. I know someone is baiting near me, and have a good idea who it is, I believe there are now more than just the one I gave our warden an idea who I thought it was and where, but it would have been like him looking for a needle in a haystack in some nasty crap.

Now with cwd in our county, it would seem even more serious. I don't know our new game warden yet. Sure do wish the baiting around us would be stopped though. It is not fair to those of us who don't sit in piles of corn. Hunting shouldn't be about competition of who has the deepest pockets with the biggest corn piles. Unfortunately I am fairly certain that it is happening, and the only way I could prove it would be to trespass, which I am not going to do. For a while one man up the road had a bunk feeder in front of his blind, he didn't have any livestock to feed.

Not really fair to those of us who put in our time. I see those who engage in baiting where it's not legal as nothing more than cheats, they are not "hunting" fairly at all.

I have killed deer in late December that were full of corn, when corn from local crops is long gone. I have watched a couple guys pull in our road with side by sides on their trailers with buckets in the back. Have even watched one with bagged "deer corn" in the back of their side by side.
 
AT Hiker said:
Another question(s) somewhere in the discussion could be "what does the supportive,non-hunting, voting public think of it"
Will it benefit hunting as conservation?
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This is an interesting question I had not considered. While the sample is incredibly low, my wife(non-hunter) would not be supportive of hunting over bait.

We feed deer in our back yard. Some corn and fruit trees. The deer are not hunted so they have no reason to be fearful but this is what one non-hunter equates with bait. I could shoot deer literally all year long with a bow from my master bedroom window over bait. She would not stand for it(and neither would I)
 
Pilchard said:
This is an interesting question I had not considered. While the sample is incredibly low, my wife(non-hunter) would not be supportive of hunting over bait.

We feed deer in our back yard. Some corn and fruit trees. The deer are not hunted so they have no reason to be fearful but this is what one non-hunter equates with bait. I could shoot deer literally all year long with a bow from my master bedroom window over bait. She would not stand for it(and neither would I)
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My wife would make derogatory comments about my lack of hunting abilities if I shot one like that. For instance; we had backpacked into a mountain lake once, I was throwing every fly I could trying to catch a Golden Trout…I made a comment about using live bait and she replied "would that make you feel like a a man"….she can be pretty abusive about things. 😀

Fact of the matter, she just wanted trout for dinner and didn't care how we acquired them.
 
Yeah I appreciate all yall who are expert woodsmen who wouldny lower yourself to using corn. Thats just not the case with me however. When all the does disappear during the rut year after year I was just wishing I could slow them down long enough .Ill go to Saskatchewan again this fall and shoot one over beans and alfalfa.
 
Mescalero said:
Most of you guys have forgotten more about deer, deer hunting, deer management, etc than I'll ever know. That said, corn has little, if any, nutritional value to any animal, human, deer, or others. I've read it can also be harmful to a deer's digestive tract. Think about it, although entirely different animals and digestive tracts, if you eat a lot of corn, corn meal, corn chips, high fructose corn syrup, and generally a corn-based diet (which most Americans have, whether they know it or not), you are most likely overweight and unhealthy. I think there's gotta be some correlation. But like I said, I'm by no means an expert.
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Corn has a lot more nutritional value than say the grass a deer eats. If corn harms the digestive system of a deer, I'd say we'd have a lot of sick and unhealthy deer here in Iowa, but we don't. I'm not for baiting, my brother does have a feeder he runs during off season and the deer and turkeys know where it's at. Agree a good food plot is way better than just putting out a pile of corn or apples like a lot of people do in Iowa during season. It's a stiff fine if caught, but doesn't stop a lot of people from doing it.
 
iowavf said:
Corn has a lot more nutritional value than say the grass a deer eats. If corn harms the digestive system of a deer, I'd say we'd have a lot of sick and unhealthy deer here in Iowa, but we don't. I'm not for baiting, my brother does have a feeder he runs during off season and the deer and turkeys know where it's at. Agree a good food plot is way better than just putting out a pile of corn or apples like a lot of people do in Iowa during season. It's a stiff fine if caught, but doesn't stop a lot of people from doing it.
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You got GMO deer in Iowa. LoL.

I'd think there's a big difference in nutritional value between corn on the cob/corn on the ground post-harvest and corn after processing into feed corn.
 
iowavf said:
Corn has a lot more nutritional value than say the grass a deer eats. If corn harms the digestive system of a deer, I'd say we'd have a lot of sick and unhealthy deer here in Iowa, but we don't. I'm not for baiting, my brother does have a feeder he runs during off season and the deer and turkeys know where it's at. Agree a good food plot is way better than just putting out a pile of corn or apples like a lot of people do in Iowa during season. It's a stiff fine if caught, but doesn't stop a lot of people from doing it.
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No doubt the carbs corn provides can be of some benefit certain times of the year....but certainly not a healthy year around food source.....and I believe there is a considerable difference between a standing corn field which is harvested with some spillage or waste occuring verses a big pile of potentially molded "yellow gold" deer corn.....in the harvested corn field deer are spread out searching for corn (in moderation)....verses a bait station where they are packed in tight feeding heavy....and I agree with you....a food plot, when done correctly, is a healthier option for a variety of wildlife.
 
DoubleRidge said:
No doubt the carbs corn provides can be of some benefit certain times of the year....but certainly not a healthy year around food source.....and I believe there is a considerable difference between a standing corn field which is harvested with some spillage or waste occuring verses a big pile of potentially molded "yellow gold" deer corn.....in the harvested corn field deer are spread out searching for corn (in moderation)....verses a bait station where they are packed in tight feeding heavy....and I agree with you....a food plot, when done correctly, is a healthier option for a variety of wildlife.
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Well the corn my brother uses comes from the guy up the road right out of the bin, so yes probably is a difference. Iowa deer aren't only eating the spillage in the fields, but some people loose up to forty acres in places with large deer numbers, all that's left is a bare stalk of corn.
 
iowavf said:
Well the corn my brother uses comes from the guy up the road right out of the bin, so yes probably is a difference. Iowa deer aren't only eating the spillage in the fields, but some people loose up to forty acres in places with large deer numbers, all that's left is a bare stalk of corn.
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The amount of damage deer, and other critters like coons, can do to ag crops can be mind boggling.
 
Hillbilly Hunter said:
A one acre food plot can give as much food as 100 acres of mature hardwoods.
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Most food plots are not even a Acre in my area not even close. or what people call food plots atleast

Most people I know and many I don't just use the Throw and grow method in little patches around the stand/area. Maybe plant a old road bed or so. My neighbor plants clover and winter wheat in a little 50x50 area by his tripod every year. We put out a couple small polts a year nothing close to a Acre

They are way way way more of those then Acre+ food plots people are actually hunting over.

I just don't think there is much a difference in someone buying a bag of seed at the co-op for $20 throwing it out in patches in front of there treestand for the sole purpose of baiting a deer to that spot, and someone putting up a corn feeder.
 
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