Best buck to doe ratio is 1:2... change my mind

[BSK]

I absolutely agree with this statement.... every property is different and managers have different goals.....no way are we shooting 1 doe per 40 acre.... honestly...we haven't seen the need to shoot a single doe in many years....but again, our circumstances are different than others.

Pre-2007-EHD-outbreak, we used to HAMMER the does. Because we could and it made little difference. Post-2007-EHD-outbreak, in combination with Earn-A-Buck harvest rules on a very large neighboring property, we have shot few does, because we didn't need to, and doing so would have been detrimental. Harvest practices need to change with the circumstances.

 

[tellico4x4]

3500 acres under management for 19 yrs. Two adjacent clubs add another 8500 acres for 12k total continguous acres.
We too strive for 1:1.5 buck to doe. Members are required to shoot as many does as they do bucks each year. In addition & based on survey, we have the option to require 1-2 mandatory does per membership each year. This year survey showed us at 1:1.9, so we initiated the additional 1 mandatory rule. If a membership does not kill their quota, then they can't kill a buck the following year until their shortfall is caught up.
We strongly encourage that does be killed as early as possible during season & can only be shot on plots during bow, ML & the special private season in Jan after regular season closes.
This works very well for us & is adjusted each year as needed. After the 2007 EHD, we didn't kill a doe for 2 yrs & then slowly ramped it back up as surveys indicated.
Lots of mature (4-1/2+) bucks are killed each year on plots following does out & rut is usually intense with lots of chases being seen.
In past 19yrs we've killed 581 deer including 191 bucks, 374 does & 16 buttons. I didn't start recording age until 2006, so since then the 145 racked bucks killed have been:
2-1/2 yrs - 19
3-1/2 yrs - 51
4-1/2 yrs - 44
5-1/2+ yrs - 31
The above does not include bucks less than 2-1/2 yrs mostly killed by first time hunters (youth & wives) which alot of were spikes & such, maybe another 20 or so. Have the info but not with me right now...
This year we should kill 15-18 bucks & 30-40 does.

 

[Snake]

Different properties requires different tactics IMO . Let's take our property we used to have in Giles Co. Listened to this shoot all the does you can tactic so you could get your ratio as close to 1: 1 you could . Shot alot of does for several years and started letting the young bucks walk well most of us did . Didn't help one bit , actually our total deer sightings were down and the larger bucks just didn't show up. Got another property and we quit shooting does plus still let the young bucks walk . Years started getting better with older bucks taking two or three top end 2.5 and 3.5 bucks . Right before we lost it I could just about guarantee a decent buck from this measly 93 acres every year . Neighbors kept killing does but our place kept a decent population of does and it drawed the surrounding bucks to our place during rut time . Killing all the does you could trying to help your ratio buck to doe actually hurt that place !! Think some places it may be good but others not so much .

 

[diamond hunter]

That sounds perfect to me

 

[Boll Weevil]

On my 750ac we average killing 6.3 does and 0.8 bucks 5.5+ each year over the last 10 years. To date, in any given year we've removed as many as 10 does and 3 bucks. For a couple of reasons I believe my farm is a bit of a "doe sink."

1) Our habitat enhancement activities has created a favorable place to take up residence when compared to surrounding properties. It's all we can do to keep up with both reproduction by the resident herd and newcomers.
2) Significant habitat changes on neighboring properties...primarily clearcuts. I know deer will begin to use clearcuts more as they grow up and get thick but many deer still seem to find their new core area favorable and just never leave. This summer a new 400ac clearcut was created across the road...I now get pictures like this all the time and in various locations around the farm.

I have noticed over the years killing mature bucks has indeed become more consistent for us than early in our management journey.

 

[BSK]

Just my opinion (from years of looking at hard data), but it's "dangerous" to equate harvest practices on small properties to long-term results. What I'm getting at is the harvests on a 75-acre property will have little impact on the deer of the local area, as deer can have very large home ranges. On the other hand, the harvest practices on 3,000 acres will absolutely have a serious impact on the local population, as many deer on that 3,000-acre tract never leave it.

 

[poorhunter]

I agree 125,000 %, yes percent. You can over harvest your does to a point where the standing herd deer density is WAAAAAY below carrying capacity, hunting is little to no fun, and the number of bucks on the landscape are less than what they could/should be and still allow maximum potential with age. I have not traveled the entire USA, but I have yet to see an area where the browse line was so bad that the deer herd was TRULY OVER CARRYING CAPACITY. I am sure they exist, but I have never hunted one. I am not a fan of kill all the does at all costs, and I am seeing fewer and fewer areas in SW TN that need more does killed/removed than bucks.

I've only seen browse lines in two places in my life. In the Upper Peninsula Michigan I saw several spots with a distinct browse line, and on a Campground I Southern Indiana that hadn't allowed hunting for decades. It got really bad there and they finally opened it up to hunting by draw a few days a year. Your point is correct, VERY few areas reach carrying capacity IMO.

 

[BSK]

Browse lines are not the sign of a deer herd at carrying capacity. Browse lines begin to appear - to a trained eye - at any time after a herd is at about 2/3rds of carry capacity. Very, VERY rarely will an area ever reach carrying capacity. At that point, the entire herd is extremely unhealthy. I've only seen a carrying capacity herd a couple times in my all years in the business, and they were always areas that were unhunted for a significant period of time (usually a decade or more).

 

[jmf]

3500 acres under management for 19 yrs. Two adjacent clubs add another 8500 acres for 12k total continguous acres.
We too strive for 1:1.5 buck to doe. Members are required to shoot as many does as they do bucks each year. In addition & based on survey, we have the option to require 1-2 mandatory does per membership each year. This year survey showed us at 1:1.9, so we initiated the additional 1 mandatory rule. If a membership does not kill their quota, then they can't kill a buck the following year until their shortfall is caught up.
We strongly encourage that does be killed as early as possible during season & can only be shot on plots during bow, ML & the special private season in Jan after regular season closes.
This works very well for us & is adjusted each year as needed. After the 2007 EHD, we didn't kill a doe for 2 yrs & then slowly ramped it back up as surveys indicated.
Lots of mature (4-1/2+) bucks are killed each year on plots following does out & rut is usually intense with lots of chases being seen.
In past 19yrs we've killed 581 deer including 191 bucks, 374 does & 16 buttons. I didn't start recording age until 2006, so since then the 145 racked bucks killed have been:
2-1/2 yrs - 19
3-1/2 yrs - 51
4-1/2 yrs - 44
5-1/2+ yrs - 31
The above does not include bucks less than 2-1/2 yrs mostly killed by first time hunters (youth & wives) which alot of were spikes & such, maybe another 20 or so. Have the info but not with me right now...
This year we should kill 15-18 bucks & 30-40 does.

Thanks for sharing your personal experience.

 

[megalomaniac]

3500 acres under management for 19 yrs. Two adjacent clubs add another 8500 acres for 12k total continguous acres.
We too strive for 1:1.5 buck to doe. Members are required to shoot as many does as they do bucks each year. In addition & based on survey, we have the option to require 1-2 mandatory does per membership each year. This year survey showed us at 1:1.9, so we initiated the additional 1 mandatory rule. If a membership does not kill their quota, then they can't kill a buck the following year until their shortfall is caught up.
We strongly encourage that does be killed as early as possible during season & can only be shot on plots during bow, ML & the special private season in Jan after regular season closes.
This works very well for us & is adjusted each year as needed. After the 2007 EHD, we didn't kill a doe for 2 yrs & then slowly ramped it back up as surveys indicated.
Lots of mature (4-1/2+) bucks are killed each year on plots following does out & rut is usually intense with lots of chases being seen.
In past 19yrs we've killed 581 deer including 191 bucks, 374 does & 16 buttons. I didn't start recording age until 2006, so since then the 145 racked bucks killed have been:
2-1/2 yrs - 19
3-1/2 yrs - 51
4-1/2 yrs - 44
5-1/2+ yrs - 31
The above does not include bucks less than 2-1/2 yrs mostly killed by first time hunters (youth & wives) which alot of were spikes & such, maybe another 20 or so. Have the info but not with me right now...
This year we should kill 15-18 bucks & 30-40 does.

Data at this kind of level of detail is worth its weight in gold! Kudos for working so hard to obtain it! Very informative and significant!

 

[Bodine270]

I can read through these types of threads for hours. Thanks for all the info. This is a great place to always learn something new.

 

[TX300mag]

After several years of hammering does (cooperative effort with neighbors), we made significant progress. Rut became much more visible (although shorter in duration). I remember one neighbor (a member here) telling me of watching 4 or 5 bucks chase a single doe and realizing the progress we made.

One downside was fewer deer to "watch" to pass the time. Another was the amount of bucks we had with busted up antlers.

I turned over hunting to my kids a few years ago, they kill fewer than I did. Everybody backed off some. The last three fawn crops have been strong and just like that we're back to doe sink status. Rut might not be as visible/defined but hunting is good for the kids.

 

[megalomaniac]

One downside was fewer deer to "watch" to pass the time. Another was the amount of bucks we had with busted up antlers.

This is a very real problem with a 1:1 ratio. Much more intense competition for the estrus does results in much more fighting. Broken racks high on the beam are no big deal, but buck mortality from fighting skyrockets with a 1:1 ratio.

 

[BSK]

This is a very real problem with a 1:1 ratio. Much more intense competition for the estrus does results in much more fighting. Broken racks high on the beam are no big deal, but buck mortality from fighting skyrockets with a 1:1 ratio.

I would agree with that.

 

[TheLBLman]

Lots of great perspectives on this thread!

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

You needed to be with me when I started working deer management in the Southeast, especially the Deep South. Browse lines like I never hope to see again. And I saw them in western TN as well, but not as severe as in the Deep South (primarily Alabama and Mississippi). Luckily, QDM was adopted much more thoroughly by hunters than I ever imagined. That has greatly improved herd densities across the region since the "bad old days" of the early 2000s.

Have some taken doe harvests too far? Absolutely. You can shoot the deer density down below desirable numbers from a hunting standpoint real quick. But I have also seen properties where animal quality sky-rocketed after deer densities were reduced to a biologically sound level. In fact, I can say with good conviction that we are seeing the fruits of that in much of TN now.

I agree