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Anonymous
Guest
is ready or almost ready? Does the level of estrogen have anything to do with this?
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AlabamaSwamper
Well-Known Member
I always thought it had more to do with that the urine passed over after it left her body but I may be wrong.
pheromones. actually a rise in progesterone and LH signal ovulation has occurred
BSK
Well-Known Member
AlabamaSwamper said:
Correct. Some really fascinating studies have been done on doe urine at UGA. They found that urine collected directly from the bladder (with a catheter) of an estrus doe elicited no breeding response from bucks, but urine excreated (peed out normally) did elicit a breeding response. What it is that bucks are "smelling" in the urine is primarily coming from what the urine passes over as it leaves the body (downstream of the bladder). Exactly "what they are smelling" is most likely the ratio of specific hormones present in other bodily fluids from the reproductive tract.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Of course, deer biology and animal perceptions are highly complicated. Another interesting research project conducted at UGA involved how much of doe estrus determination by bucks is based on the sense of smell versus vision.
The rearchers built a tunnel shaped like a big "Y." Bucks entered the tunnel and the bottom end of the "Y," and as the moved up the tunnel, the got to the fork where the single tunnel split into two tunnels. At the end of each upper side tunnel (the top of the "Y") would be a doe, one in estrus the other not. The buck then could choose which doe to move towards.
In one experiment, the tunnel was absolutely black-dark, so vision could not be used by the buck to decide which arm of the "Y" to travel up. However, fans were used to blow air over the two does and force their scent down the tunnel. The buck had to choose which arm of the "Y" to move up (which doe to move towards) purely by his sense of smell. Predictably, the buck would choose the estrus doe the vast majority of the time, as he could smell she was in estrus.
However, the amazing finding was that when the experiment was reworked so that no air could move down the tunnel (does were in plexiglass boxes and the bucks had had their noses cauterized to eliminate their sense of smell), but light was shined on the does so they buck could see the does but not smell them, the bucks still chose the estrus does the majority of the time. It appears bucks can not only tell an estrus doe by her smell, but also by sight. What they are "seeing" that tells them a doe is in estrus is unknown.
The rearchers built a tunnel shaped like a big "Y." Bucks entered the tunnel and the bottom end of the "Y," and as the moved up the tunnel, the got to the fork where the single tunnel split into two tunnels. At the end of each upper side tunnel (the top of the "Y") would be a doe, one in estrus the other not. The buck then could choose which doe to move towards.
In one experiment, the tunnel was absolutely black-dark, so vision could not be used by the buck to decide which arm of the "Y" to travel up. However, fans were used to blow air over the two does and force their scent down the tunnel. The buck had to choose which arm of the "Y" to move up (which doe to move towards) purely by his sense of smell. Predictably, the buck would choose the estrus doe the vast majority of the time, as he could smell she was in estrus.
However, the amazing finding was that when the experiment was reworked so that no air could move down the tunnel (does were in plexiglass boxes and the bucks had had their noses cauterized to eliminate their sense of smell), but light was shined on the does so they buck could see the does but not smell them, the bucks still chose the estrus does the majority of the time. It appears bucks can not only tell an estrus doe by her smell, but also by sight. What they are "seeing" that tells them a doe is in estrus is unknown.
Interesting study Bryan, thanks for sharing the summary. That is the first I have ever heard of that one. Good stuff.
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Anonymous
Guest
Thanks for all great info! I don't think the old ladies estrogen spray would work after all. Haha!
What I found interesting about he tunnel experiment was that there was any surprise to it at all. To me, the results were exactly as I would expect and I can't imagine any biologist thinking otherwise.
TNDeerGuy
Well-Known Member
BSK, what are they seeing�the darkness of the glands on the doe's legs?
:grin:peytoncreekhunter
Well-Known Member
TNDeerGuy said:
Not to be funny but in human terms, don't guys kinda know by a woman's body posture, manner, etc. if she may be "willing"?
That could have something to do with it.
BSK
Well-Known Member
bowriter said:
The surprise was that bucks can identify an estrus doe purely by sight. No one really expected that.
BSK
Well-Known Member
TNDeerGuy said:
No one knows. Probably something involving body posturing, as not all estrus does have dark tarsals.
BSK
Well-Known Member
peytoncreekhunter said:
Exactly. Probably very subtle clues in body posturing.
My thoughts exactly. If you think about it, non-receptive does are always trying to elude testosterone filled bucks during the pestering/chasing phase, they just want to be left alone. Then one day the buck looks over and notices that the doe looks approachable for a change. For once, she is not trying to flee for her life as she had been the previous two weeks.BSK said:
Winchester
Well-Known Member
Body language no doubt, and yes Im sure it was a very surprising find!!
BSK said:
This is precisely what I was referring to.
Deer convey so much by body language, I would have thought that would be a no-brainer.
Wow thats interesting. What do you think they see when they see a doe decoy?
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
That is an interesting study and didnt know that was tested. I cerainly believe them looking at a doe "giving them the eye", that they would make a move towards them. Have you ever had a doe come by you knowing that there was a buck behind her? I certainly have. It could be 30 seconds, or an hour. It's just a sense of reading their body language. Sometimes its easy and sometimes we have no clue. Thats what "they" know and can read. This is where paying attention to detail could possibly pay off. Obviously it is more visible to them and not to us, BUT this is definitely interesting. Just saying there are probably a few clues that could trigger our eyes to recognizing an estrous doe. I have seen certain things that are kind of "off" with a doe passing through and there always seems to be a buck behind them at some point. Though sometimes, we are wrong, but who knows, she may be hot and there just happens to be nothing trailing her. This is when I see the does modify their ranges to a smaller tract of land. When I see one that I think is hot, I try to stay in that general area that has the highest probability of travel....aka - funnels or travel corridors
