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Can You Have Too Much Land To Hunt?
- Thread starter Mike Belt
- Start date
godores
Well-Known Member
I hunt 53 acres, and I love it. We have 3 stands that we hunt based on the wind, and I feel like I know the entire property like the back of my hand. Given that it is 45 minutes away and I only get to go out there 15-20 times a year, it has taken me a few years to get to that comfort level. I have a nice year round creek at the edge of my property, and cattle farmers next door have made sure the deer have very little other cover to get to the creek which forces them to go through my little wooded property. All of my neighbors also live and work on their properties, so my little plot has become a human-fee and therefore safe highway to reliable water.
That being said, I can't really do any QDM practices on my plot. I have an almost entirely wooded rocky top with a ton of beautiful rock outcroppings and caves, which are great to look at and explore, but not suitable for food plots. It would be great if there were some nice big fields to switch things up with and build a shoot house on for those 12 degree mornings like last Saturday. For a part time hunter living in the city working full time and raising a family, QDM is probably more fun as a thought experiment than as a practice, though.
I guess my conclusion is that if you are hardcore and have a lot of time to scout each year and really put in the work to find that one special buck, more land is always better. If you are a weekend warrior like myself, I would prefer getting a very high quality small spot that you know and understand intimately and can always control the pressure on. I'm not holding a ton of deer and most deer I shoot I do not recognize from my cameras, but that means that I don't have to do as much habitat work and I always have hope that a big boy is living nearby and is just going to pass on through to get a drink.
That being said, I can't really do any QDM practices on my plot. I have an almost entirely wooded rocky top with a ton of beautiful rock outcroppings and caves, which are great to look at and explore, but not suitable for food plots. It would be great if there were some nice big fields to switch things up with and build a shoot house on for those 12 degree mornings like last Saturday. For a part time hunter living in the city working full time and raising a family, QDM is probably more fun as a thought experiment than as a practice, though.
I guess my conclusion is that if you are hardcore and have a lot of time to scout each year and really put in the work to find that one special buck, more land is always better. If you are a weekend warrior like myself, I would prefer getting a very high quality small spot that you know and understand intimately and can always control the pressure on. I'm not holding a ton of deer and most deer I shoot I do not recognize from my cameras, but that means that I don't have to do as much habitat work and I always have hope that a big boy is living nearby and is just going to pass on through to get a drink.
easy45
Well-Known Member
Ok I have to get in on this discussion, I hunt land that borders Ames and I have some opinions even though some folks will fight me on them, i think the biologists that Ames has are to be completely honest, very sub-par. The over harvesting of does has been absolutely ridiculous, deer sightings are down ten fold, not only for us but for Ames Hunter's that I talk to, which in turn reduces rutting action and mature buck sightings because if there are no does around then there aren't gonna be bucks. There management scale, 125" or 4.5 is good and bad. It's nice that their hunters have the option of killing a mature, under developed buck but the vast majority of their bucks killed are 3.5 and even 2.5, most, not all of their hunters are shooting every decent buck they see not caring how old it is, that is leading to a serious high grading problem. We see twice as many mature deer with smaller than average antlers than we use to which has a direct correspondence to the high grading. We had a very large 2.5 year old deer last season that was one the do not shoot list that was shot on Ames that scored right at 130". As far as the large number of bucks Ames hunters kill that don't meet the size limits, the fines are a joke, making the fines bigger or disqualifying the hunter for the year would make them look at a deer a lot harder. Just my two cents but even though I've never hunted on Ames I've hunted beside it for 16 years and have watched the changes over the years. New management is needed.
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tree_ghost
Well-Known Member
There's never to much land to hunt...there may be too much land to intimately learn all of it but that doesn't mean it can't be effectively hunted...
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Mike Belt
Well-Known Member
I really don't know Dr. Carlisle. From what I gather he's purely a bird dog man and I don't know that he has any interest in the deer. Alan Houston does deer hunt and is involved in our deer hunting but he's primarily the timber man. I don't know if all our program is based entirely on his word or if he answers to the Board of Directors who listen closely to the farmer's complaints. In any event I do feel they might ought to look at tweaking a couple of things. I do think there are and have been too many does killed although according to Ames, their numbers dispute that. I think this year our buck kill is down from where it should be and half of those killed didn't score or age and most were 2.5 years old. That doesn't bode well for our future buck hunting. Maybe screening hunters better? Maybe heavier fines? Maybe one buck that falls into that category and you lose your second buck? I don't know but entirely too many bucks that don't score and are only 2.5 are being killed. Many of these are by new members and I realize you have to start somewhere but after 12 or so years under our program the major change I see is less deer.
easy45
Well-Known Member
That's the biggest issue, the biologist that are running the deer hunting couldn't care less about deer hunting, Ames would be better off with someone like me lol (before anybody says anything about me not knowing any better, it was meant as a joke but I do have a degree in Natural Resources Management and my main management concern is deer hunting). Also you better believe stiffer fines and losing a buck tag would decrease the number of young bucks taken. And there numbers might show high doe numbers but I'm willing to bet there surveys occur only in certain areas, not property wide, heck they might even do them in safety zones , just speculation of course, either way they are doing way more damage than good.
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fairchaser
Well-Known Member
easy45":kra2bpbo said:
This is definitely an off year at Ames Easy45 but not because of poor management. A hot and dry fall along with a late leaf drop has made hunting conditions very tough. The increase in small bucks harvested is due to the influx of a bunch of new members and the frustration of other hunters needing to kill something while they had time off to hunt. I doubt we will catch up on our buck kill this year but we are right on schedule for killing does which would indicate we have plenty. I expect this off year will help our mature buck population next year and maybe several years. So maybe this is a good thing for our future. I'm guessing some new members with stars in their eyes may re evaluate their decision after this season and seek greener food plots elsewhere. Ames has some of the best minds and experts in the field and their success is well known nationally and admired. You are entitled to your opinion but I disagree.
easy45
Well-Known Member
fairchaser":3r6bn9yo said:
We will have to disagree then, but a hot dry fall has nothing to do with the last several years combined and your gonna have to explain to me how an increase in the harvest of small bucks is gonna help the mature bucks. Who are your biologist who set the harvest goals for Ames.
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fairchaser
Well-Known Member
easy45":31dp1bpe said:
I figured you would know who Dr. Alan Houston, Dr Carlisle and Dr Craig Harper were since you are calling for their heads. Some of the up and coming 2.5 year olds scoring in the mid teens have been killed, two scoring 2.5 yo and several 4.5 yo management bucks along with a fewer than normal scoring 3.5 and 4.5 year olds. Those extra scoring bucks that have escaped the gun so far will be great bucks next season. Instead of only a few who make it through, there could be an extra 10 scoring bucks that survive another year. That will put a damper on some of the high grading that occurs. I'm hoping it could have somewhat of a snowball effect for some years to come since each year they escape they become a little harder to kill. But I'll leave those conclusions for the management.
easy45
Well-Known Member
I actually do know Houston and Carlisle, at least know of them, I went to high school with Carlisle's sons, only problem is neither of those to are focused on deer, now I'll admit I have no clue of Craig Harper is, all I see is the results of there management plan.
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BULL MOOSE
Well-Known Member
Craig Harper is da man on habitat management. He did a great podcast on wired to hunt.
fairchaser
Well-Known Member
easy45":2prml8jy said:
I would suggest you consider coming to Ames annual banquet where the management plan and the results are discussed and explained thoroughly. The banquet is open to non members if invited by a member. You can come as my guest if you like.
easy45
Well-Known Member
fairchaser":2v8jbohl said:
I might do that.
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Winchester
Well-Known Member
I dont know much about Ames but I have a question? Is there a shortage or lack of food for the deer overall on the property? Is the buck to doe ratio out of wack? Serious questions as I understand they have a very aggressive plan in place to kill does?
dgb7mm
Well-Known Member
No shortage of a meal anywhere on the place! Crop damage in certain areas every year!
dgb7mm
Well-Known Member
One of the biggest issues happening that I see is pressure on top of pressure! The older class of bucks are nocturnal! And now that the does are being hammered the older class of does are relating to the pressure. This I think resembles an over harvest. As Mike Belt has mentioned we have vast areas that are not accessible, to thick to hunt. Let me make it clear I believe we have over harvested in certain areas of the place! Just by the way the place lays out most members are not going to fool with does miles from parking. Maybe some assistance from the farm managers in retrieval since this seems to be the driving factor. Reality is this we hunt on a farm managed for bird trials not whitetails!
fairchaser
Well-Known Member
dgb7mm":2b876ds1 said:
You've touched on a lot of good issues DGB. The does are there just not in the easy areas necessarily. The mature bucks are nocturnal except when they are behind a hot doe. They feel the pressure which is intense. I've run into more hunters, stands and cameras at every turn. One hunter per 160 acres doesn't seem like too much until you start eliminating open crops, dense pine thickets, impenetrable cutovers, grass lands, pastures etc,etc. Then you have hunters on top of one another. I wish there were fewer members personally and would be willing to pay a little more if the number were intentionally limited. I'm not sure anything can be done about hunting pressure because we have a lot of dedicated hunters putting in a lot of hours. Fewer hunters would help. Over killing of does is an easy fix and certainly easier than the opposite problem. I'm not saying we have killed too many but they are reacting to the pressure. Even in remote areas the deer move mostly under the cover of darkness. My daylight to dark pics are about 1 in 10, even during the rut. Survival for a whitetail is much easier when you move mostly at night. Overall, management is doing a good job but whitetails adapt to whatever is thrown at em. Some of the new members may have decided that killing one of those good ones ain't easy at all! Sometimes it seems impossible.
