Closing the deal

[Setterman]

I really think me and you hunt two diff worlds, the birds I hunt in extreme southern middle tn just simply do not adhere the rules you are implying here. If you absolutely would not shoot a bird unless you called him in here you'd be eating tag soup for the most part here. So few birds and they are hunted so hard they simply do not come to calling very often, 10 years ago, diff story

I've hunted all over the Southeast, and I mean all over It. 500 acre Alabama ag fields, Miss River bottoms, rolling hills of west Tn, palmetto swamps of South Georgia, Sand Hills of central georgia, rugged eastern TN mountains and many more.

for decades now I've adhered by my rules of engagement and for decades I've killed 12-14 birds a year. Each and every one gobbled to my call, and came to my set up.

I haven't killed a private Land turkey in TN, Ky, VA, or NC in almost 20 years.

I would suggest reflecting on your tactics, early season methods etc.

Sorry to come across as arrogant, but there's nothing you can throw at me that I haven't dealt with from high pressured, to low bird numbers, to henned up lock jaw, whatever you got I've dealt with. In every instance a bird will gobble if hunted the right way at the right time. You just have to shelve the must kill now mentality.

There's a place near my house called Loyston Point, it has a few birds and every day they get hammered by countless hunters. Within a week of the season opening they go silent from the pressure. 90% of the hunters vacate after the second week. I can go in there the first week of May every single year and call a gobbling bird to my gun. These birds have seen and heard it all, they've been shot at, bumped, spooked, wounded etc. But by hunting them smartly and at the right time they still play the game.

Catoosa is very similar, I've seen a lot of birds die in a very hard hit weird place to hunt

Its you and your hunting mentality is my point. You want instant gratification. you don't want to learn, hunt smart, and adhere to anything other than filling that tag as fast as possible. In your mind it's dang he won't gobble, so I'll sneak up and ambush him. In my mind, he's not gobbling today I'll come back in a week or so, and see if he's ready To play my game.

please don't think every time I walk in the woods they just come running gobbling all the way. There's lots of days, where I get my butt handed to me, nothing gobbled, I setup poorly, made a dumb mistake, or A bird gobbled twice and vanished. Those days are far more common then the dead bird days, but that's what makes this fun. My tags are precious and too valuable as well as the chess match to cheapen the experience by employing some bs tactic

 

[megalomaniac]

I really think me and you hunt two diff worlds, the birds I hunt in extreme southern middle tn just simply do not adhere the rules you are implying here. If you absolutely would not shoot a bird unless you called him in here you'd be eating tag soup for the most part here. So few birds and they are hunted so hard they simply do not come to calling very often, 10 years ago, diff story

Gotta disagree with you there.

I hunt southern middle TN, 75% fields, 25% woods. I do OK, maybe 1 out of 6 birds I work I kill. (And those I kill are usually satellite birds desperate for a hen). I learned a long time ago I couldn't work birds that pitched into the fields early season (unless they pitched right off the roost into gun range), and just left them. But guess what, once the sun gets hot around 10am, those flocks are headed to the shade of the woods, and I could sneak to within 75yds of the flock, cluck, purr, and scratch leaves to get the tom to come to less than 40 to check me out and take him home.

Later on in the season field birds are EASY. Just let them pitch down onto the field, watch the tom breed the hens and they break off to lay as the morning goes on, then call him in late morning. Sure, it might take 4 hours, where reaping him in right off the roost might only take 4 minutes after his feet touch the ground. But you will learn so much about turkey behavior and vocalizations in those 4 hours of waiting than you would learn in 4 years of reaping them with a strutter.

Killing a turkey is supposed to be HARD. Killing one is supposed to be SPECIAL. These aren't just deer that are a dime a dozen that we kill by waiting and ambushing them. These are individual animals with individual personalities that we are supposed to interact with, convince them we are the sexxiest (or hardest to get, depending on his person ality) hen on the planet, and have them contradict what nature tells them to do. Only by doing so can you reach the true nirvana of what turkey hunting is.

Many of us don't look down on those who cheapen the experience by using unfair tactics because we feel we are better than them, but rather feel sorry for those who are missing out on the full experience of what true turkey hunting is.

I really do feel sorry for those who measure turkey hunting by number of kills, how fast they limit out, how many FB likes they get, etc... because they are too consumed by the easy kill rather than enjoying interacting with the most valiant animal on the planet...

And this is coming from a guy who used to be all about stacking them cordwood high (limits respected). But that was when the population seemed limitless on my farms. I've since just learned to appreciate the wonder of a roost gobble, a shy hen single clucking to my calls, and especially a worthy adversarial tom whom I convince he just HAS to give me one look because of my calling. I DONT want to kill out/ tag out. Because it means I'm not truly in the game for the rest of the season. And it's a game I just can't put down and walk away from.

 

[woodsman04]

I just simply think that if you don't play the turkey game by calling them up you don't deserve it and you cheapen the hunt. Your taking a bird the easy way and stealing it from the next guy trying to work it.
Supposed to be hard. Supposed to earn them. For every 10 I shoot, I have only have one or two flash hunts. I like to think the flash hunts are birds that I've paid for in full over the years of the hard ones that I never get.

I don't give a rip what anyone thinks. Wild turkeys are special. Should be treated better than to use a fake turkey.

 

[ttf909]

The theory (with a lot of credible backing, data, and common sense) is that we are killing too many gobblers too early in the breeding cycle. That problem is compounded when you kill a lot of the dominant gobblers with harems of hens that would normally handle a big percentage of the breeding.

Not everyone agrees with that theory. But lets assume it to be true just for the sake of argument. The solution to that problem is to limit the number of gobblers killed in (roughly) the first two weeks of April, with particular concern for dominant breeder males.

Reducing the limit accomplishes nothing towards that goal. I'm aware of two viable options. (1) delay the season 2 weeks, or (2) prohibit decoys (or at least male decoys) for the first 2 weeks.

I prefer option 1. I'm happy to hear anyone's thoughts on why I'm wrong. Any why it's snobbish.

Want more turkeys? Stop the fall season. Drop limit to one bird .

 

[2in1shot]

I'm going to sum up this argument. The SINGLE greatest factor in killing turkeys is TIME.
We saw that last year with the Covid kill numbers increase across the state. Most hunters do not have the passion that Setterman does for turkey hunting. He hunts many days a year compared to the normal guy because he loves it, not because he has a hard time killing turkeys. Guys with less time want to "get the job done" quickly and as efficiently as possible. Most guys can't and will not hunt everyday for 10-20 days straight; much less that many days in a season. Decoys make it easier on the guys with less time to fill the same number of tags as the guy who hunts 4x as many days without them.
Did I used to think Setterman was an arrogant punk? Heck yes! But if you truly have a passion for traditional turkey hunting, you know he is right.

 

[woodsman04]

Want more turkeys? Stop the fall season. Drop limit to one bird .

Haha. Fall season. Like 4,000 are killed statewide. I do think hens should be illegal no matter what, beard, no beard, quadruple beard, fall, spring and everything in between.

Biologically fall is the best time to "harvest" turkeys because that's when there are the most adults/half grown juveniles in the population. You also aren't disturbing the courtship and mating. Not tromping around the woods busting hens off nest. If you kill a gobbler and he is the "dominant," his brothers and buddies have a few months to work it out.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Want more turkeys? Stop the fall season. Drop limit to one bird .

They already stopped the fall season. I don't think a 1 bird limit is necessary yet. I think 2 is justified, but I we keep pounding gobblers starting 3 weeks before hens are bred and ignoring the consequences, we'll be there soon.

 

[megalomaniac]

Want more turkeys? Stop the fall season. Drop limit to one bird .

Im totally against killing hens and jennies in the fall.... but I don't think that is a problem any longer (it WAS a serious problem back when you got a quota tag for 6 hens in the fall, and could get leftovers for 6 more, and again, and again, and again. I knew a guy that legally killed 4 dozen hens in the fall). Sure we lose a few hens in the fall, and a few more bearded hens in the spring, but those numbers pale in comparison to the number of hens predated while setting.

A 1 bird limit may help marginal populations, but will unnecessarily limit those areas with good populations. Theoretically, a limit isn't even necessary if only adult males are removed AFTER all the hens have been bred.

The easiest solution is to open season after all hens have been bred, make jakes off limits, and just hope a gobbler or two makes it through to breed the jennies in mid May.

Time to open predator trapping year round, not just the winter.

 

[woodsman04]

Im totally against killing hens and jennies in the fall.... but I don't think that is a problem any longer (it WAS a serious problem back when you got a quota tag for 6 hens in the fall, and could get leftovers for 6 more, and again, and again, and again. I knew a guy that legally killed 4 dozen hens in the fall). Sure we lose a few hens in the fall, and a few more bearded hens in the spring, but those numbers pale in comparison to the number of hens predated while setting.

A 1 bird limit may help marginal populations, but will unnecessarily limit those areas with good populations. Theoretically, a limit isn't even necessary if only adult males are removed AFTER all the hens have been bred.

The easiest solution is to open season after all hens have been bred, make jakes off limits, and just hope a gobbler or two makes it through to breed the jennies in mid May.

Time to open predator trapping year round, not just the winter.

That's probably all it takes.

Im glad all of my areas open up April 17. Im going to hurt for places to hunt and time to go, but it'll be beneficial and should see a difference in two or three years.

 

[Setterman]

And I might add gobblers here simply DO NOT just come waddling into decoys either

Ma

I'm going to sum up this argument. The SINGLE greatest factor in killing turkeys is TIME.
We saw that last year with the Covid kill numbers increase across the state. Most hunters do not have the passion that Setterman does for turkey hunting. He hunts many days a year compared to the normal guy because he loves it, not because he has a hard time killing turkeys. Guys with less time want to "get the job done" quickly and as efficiently as possible. Most guys can't and will not hunt everyday for 10-20 days straight; much less that many days in a season. Decoys make it easier on the guys with less time to fill the same number of tags as the guy who hunts 4x as many days without them.
Did I used to think Setterman was an arrogant punk? Heck yes! But if you truly have a passion for traditional turkey hunting, you know he is right.

i am an arrogant prick not punk, haha. Not really but I am firm in my beliefs. I am fortunate to be able to hunt a lot. It's a choice for me, I stopped deer hunting, duck hunting as I save that time for turkeys. With that said, even if I only had a handful of days each year I'd still want to do it a particular way. Punching the tag isn't as important as the game to Me. I'd rather play the game with a bird and lose, than just kill a bird by any legal means.

You are correct that I absolutely love the chess match. I love hearing a bird fire off, strategizing on my approach and setup, then moving into position and calling that bird to me. It's an amazing experience unlike any other

LIke mega, my outspoken nature comes from a place of realizing how much other hunters are missing by cutting corners just to get that kill. It's hard for me to understand how others cannot see the magic of playing the turkey game with only a call, gun, and tree. It's the freaking best

 

[deerfever]

If decoys and fans just scare Gobblers away , Why in the world would anyone tote the things around? TN would be doing guys a favor if they ban decoys since they just seem to scare birds off most of the time as some believe and are not effective. As Southern sportsman pointed out you have two options start later or ban decoys . I am not a fan of the later start but would definitely do it if it helps. Now you do a combination of both, you got something! Start a week later and ban decoys for 10 days you probably keep both arguments for more turkeys happy and you let the decoy people have at it after more breeding has taken place. I also like no jakes to save those birds to mature for the next season and Kill , trap, predators early and often!

 

[Southern Sportsman]

If decoys and fans just scare Gobblers away, why in the world would anyone tote the things around?

I've been really anxious for an answer to this. Some wish decoys were banned. Those rallying to the defense of decoys insist that decoys are not a big advantage, they rarely work, and perhaps they even scare away more turkeys than they lure in.

The tens of thousands of TN turkey hunters lugging around 30 lbs and hundreds of dollars worth of decoys have apparently been hoodwinked. Tricked into spending their hard earned money on a gimmick that actually decreases their chances of killing turkeys.

In other news, the consumption of alcohol actually decreases the rate of promiscuity among college students.

 

[timberjack86]

The theory (with a lot of credible backing, data, and common sense) is that we are killing too many gobblers too early in the breeding cycle. That problem is compounded when you kill a lot of the dominant gobblers with harems of hens that would normally handle a big percentage of the breeding.

Not everyone agrees with that theory. But lets assume it to be true just for the sake of argument. The solution to that problem is to limit the number of gobblers killed in (roughly) the first two weeks of April, with particular concern for dominant breeder males.

Reducing the limit accomplishes nothing towards that goal. I'm aware of two viable options. (1) delay the season 2 weeks, or (2) prohibit decoys (or at least male decoys) for the first 2 weeks.

I prefer option 2 I'm happy to hear anyone's thoughts on why I'm wrong. Any why it's snobbish.

Agreed!

 

[lothar]

A lot of these posts sound like liberalism at its finest! I don't use decoys, so I don't think you should either. I don't like ground blinds, so I don't think you should either. I'm sure everybody complaining about season opening up too soon don't start hunting until the last 2 weeks of season. I'd guess they only shoot one turkey and they're done for the year. If it bothers you that much, take a camera instead of a gun. Use a blade of grass instead of a man made call. I've killed turkeys about every way you can kill one. Some with and some without decoys. There's excitement either way. To each his own!

 

[kbradley]

I got tired of watching college basketball so watched a few outdoor shows and noticed that with strutter decoys once the tom sees it, done deal. In the timber for instance, the caller actually has him fooled before he hits the logging road 90 yards out but once he sees the deke, doesn't even call anymore and let's the fake close the deal. In fields they don't call AT ALL and in several cases the gobbler actually left his hens to die.

I don't watch many of these shows but this was absolutely eye opening and there's just no way plastic strutters don't represent an unfair advantage. No choosing the perfect setup so when the shooter sees the bird he's in killing range, no soft calling, no scratching in the leaves, no throwing calls behind or to the side to give the impression the yet unseen hen is "over there." None of that to ensure success and close the deal. To me the last few yards embodies the real essence of turkey hunting...and it's all lost when a strutter deke is used.

If legal and ethical , do it if you like . Myself , I do not use decoy's because I just rather call and pull the sneak on them if a chance . To me , that is the most rewarding and fun . Sometimes win and sometimes lose .

 

[Boll Weevil]

The SINGLE greatest factor in killing turkeys is TIME.

The single greatest factor in killing turkeys is having turkeys to kill. That being said, I'm in agreement with the remainder of your post.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

A lot of these posts sound like liberalism at its finest! I don't use decoys, so I don't think you should either.

Yep. The age old liberal mindset of encouraging people to accomplish things through work and dedication to a craft rather than shortcuts.

This is not a political issue. But if we're drawing comparisons to liberalism, one group realizes that many people aren't skilled enough, and don't want to put in the years of effort required to clear the traditional learning curve, to kill turkeys with woodsmanship and calling. So they insist those people should be able to use an alternative means to reach the same result without the same skill and effort. Sound familiar?

 

[timberjack86]

Yep. The age old liberal mindset of encouraging people to accomplish things through work and dedication to a craft rather than rather than shortcuts.

This is not a political issue. But if we're drawing comparisons to liberalism, one group realizes that many people aren't skilled enough, and don't want to put in the years of effort required to clear the traditional learning curve, to kill turkeys with woodsmanship and calling. So they insist those people should be able to use a alternative means to reach the same result without the same skill and effort. Sound familiar?

Yep go ahead and keep taking the shortcuts. Shame on us for trying to teach anyone how to hunt traditional!

 

[artwork001]

Ok maybe in west Tennessee I'm wrong. I have never hunted west Tennessee I hunt in thick woods on the mountains here in East Tennessee and in southern Florida in the swamp and both places I e had gobbling Toms get to where they could see a Jake decoy or my strutting Tom and they turned tail and ran so I'm gonna use the strutter one more time this season and if a bird runs away I'll use the decoy to check my choke pattern lol. Here in East Tennessee like I said I see Toms blown up with hens all around them for the last two weeks so there has to be breeding going on right? I'm asking that seriously because I'm not a biologist and haven't really studied the matter so if somebody can enlighten me I would appreciate it thanks.

 

[2in1shot]

The single greatest factor in killing turkeys is having turkeys to kill. That being said, I'm in agreement with the remainder of your post.

There are non-quota WMAs all over the state and all over the south that are full of turkeys. Take the TIME and energy to go chase them if there are low numbers in your area. Guys like the hunting public show it can be done with success all over the eastern US. They have the time and desire (either for the love of turkey hunting or the love of the YouTube views) to find a bird, figure out his routine, and devote several days to kill him.