Cops on trail cam

[TNGunsmoke]

Let me address your rural vs. urban cops (disclaimer, I was a rural deputy), urban cops typically have 5+ calls pending at any given time, relatively speaking depending on the day, time, moon phase and city. Backup is seconds/minutes away. They have the option, most of the time to wait for backup before they initiate contact with the individual. They're interpreting the law quickly and doing "micro investigations" on the spot to determine if a crime has been committed and what the "punishment" should be (i.e. ticket, arrest, warning, etc.). Rural cops on the other hand don't have the luxury, in most cases, of having backup close by and their calls could be a 15 min. drive from each other. They have to have more of a "command presence" when dealing with people initially and then they can taper that off if need be based on the individuals attitude towards them. When your backup is 30 min. away, you have to think differently and don't have much room for error. A truck full of drunk dudes could easily overpower you if they wanted to. THAT'S whey rural LEO's are perceived as "asswipes" often. They will mirror the asswipe they're dealing with or the cooperative person they're dealing with. Remember, LEO's are people, with families and as I've said before, they have a belt full of fun tools they're trained to use to ensure they get home safely.

Side note: A burned out tail light is illegal, might want to get that looked at unless you want to meet the entire police force.

I'll preface this by saying I do some support work with our police department dealing with computer issues, so I do interact with a lot of them on an almost daily basis. Officers that are newer to the job,and typically male, are the more typically gung-ho type a personalities that have the attitude problems. As they get more experience and age, they tend to mellow out enough to be good to deal with. And our city officers seem to have this issue more often than the officers at the Sheriffs Dept. One mitigating factor I have seen, at least locally, is that the exception to that observation, is new officers that are 2nd or 3rd generation police officers. They seem more laid back from the get go and it only helps their careers. Most of the female officers have been more laid back anyhow. I have gotten pulled over on rare occasion, and I try cutting them all a break. Just stay easy going and keep things as simple and polite as I can, regardless of what type officer I get. I want to go home at the end of the day, and so do they. And politeness is free, and goes a long way with anyone in any profession.

 

[UCStandSitter]

Some (notice I said some) people don't have the guts to be a police officer but can sure tell police officers how to do there jobs. Of course they have watched every episode of COPS on TV so they know exactly what they are talking about.

Live PD was kinda good for a laugh now and again. Some episodes of Cops were good. I find that if I watch either for very long it puts me back into the mindset of why I left (well one of the reasons). Hearing the same people whine about the same things and how they are never wrong. I couldn't go back now and wouldn't. I'd pick up road kill by hand first...

I always say, everyone loves the hose draggers and hates the popo. Always cracked me up how certain areas (everyone knows areas like this) don't want cops around until something happens. Then it's "Well if you'd been here doing your job this wouldn't have happened. I pay your salary. You work for me!"

 

[DaveTN]

Let me address your rural vs. urban cops (disclaimer, I was a rural deputy), urban cops typically have 5+ calls pending at any given time, relatively speaking depending on the day, time, moon phase and city. Backup is seconds/minutes away. They have the option, most of the time to wait for backup before they initiate contact with the individual. They're interpreting the law quickly and doing "micro investigations" on the spot to determine if a crime has been committed and what the "punishment" should be (i.e. ticket, arrest, warning, etc.). Rural cops on the other hand don't have the luxury, in most cases, of having backup close by and their calls could be a 15 min. drive from each other. They have to have more of a "command presence" when dealing with people initially and then they can taper that off if need be based on the individuals attitude towards them. When your backup is 30 min. away, you have to think differently and don't have much room for error. A truck full of drunk dudes could easily overpower you if they wanted to. THAT'S whey rural LEO's are perceived as "asswipes" often. They will mirror the asswipe they're dealing with or the cooperative person they're dealing with. Remember, LEO's are people, with families and as I've said before, they have a belt full of fun tools they're trained to use to ensure they get home safely.

Side note: A burned out tail light is illegal, might want to get that looked at unless you want to meet the entire police force.

I was a city cop, and could have multiple backups with me usually within a couple of minutes if I saw something going wrong. Like you experienced, our County Deputies and State Police backup's from their own departments could be 15 minutes or more away. If they were close to the city, we had statewide radios and could go back them up if need be, they did the same for us.

That makes a difference in how you handle/control the situation.

Side note: I've never written a burned out taillight. But I have used that and other violations to stop a vehicle in citizens neighborhood's where I thought they may be criminals. If they checked out okay, they were sent on their way with a warning. As you know that's being proactive instead of reactive to burglaries etc. I'm sure you have done the same thing as have many other good cops. It also causes the "I was stopped over a taillight!" or when cops shoot violent criminals it's "He was shot for running a stop sign!" When things turn bad, the cause for the stop is usually irrelevant. Of course many are laser focused on that narrative.

 

[348Winchester]

It's not an assumption. You stated MANY. What do you do for a living? What if I said most *insert job description here* are bad? Painting with a broad brush is ignorant. By your own admission you've not had real problems with officers in your past so why the hate?

Obviously, I cannot translate the word "many" into a concrete number or even a percentage. It would most likely vary from region to region. As stated in another response, I believe rural cops are better overall. However, in policing, where liberty and life are often at stake, the fewer the better in terms of undesirable characters. Even a small percentage should not be tolerated. Therefore, police should be heavily scrutinized and diligently monitored by the public they serve. I am a teacher and a gunsmith. I have been teaching for 27 years and smithing for about 25 years. Yes, most definitely, I have seen very bad teachers. Over the years, I have encouraged some of those to seek other work. I confronted one privately when I saw something very inappropriate. So if you said many teachers were bad I would agree with you because many really are. In my building there are 45 teachers and many are not good teachers. Some are unorganized, some are not very personable, some have no management skills, and some are outright incompetent. Some are competent, some are good, and a few are exemplary. Painting with a broad brush is unwise but I genuinely do not believe I am. My observations where police are concerned are not based solely on my own interactions as for the most part they have been fine. I do not "hate" the police as you accuse me of doing. To me they are public servants, like I am as a teacher, paid from the public trough and need to be accountable for their actions as their decisions can deprive one of liberty and/or life.

 

[UCStandSitter]

I was a city cop, and could have multiple backups with me usually within a couple of minutes if I saw something going wrong. Like you experienced, our County Deputies and State Police backup's from their own departments could be 15 minutes or more away. If they were close to the city, we had statewide radios and could go back them up if need be, they did the same for us.

That makes a difference in how you handle/control the situation.

Side note: I've never written a burned out taillight. But I have used that and other violations to stop a vehicle in citizens neighborhood's where I thought they may be criminals. If they checked out okay, they were sent on their way with a warning. As you know that's being proactive instead of reactive to burglaries etc. I'm sure you have done the same thing as have many other good cops. It also causes the "I was stopped over a taillight!" or when cops shoot violent criminals it's "He was shot for running a stop sign!" When things turn bad, the cause for the stop is usually irrelevant. Of course many are laser focused on that narrative.

Preferred the city if I'm honest helped some with county stuff but wasn't a fan. Being 35 mins from backup on a hot call isn't fun. Especially when you are trying to control a situation with multiple morons all hopped up on something.

As for the burned out taillight stuff, you can't make folks happy. You cite em you're a jerk. You let em go, you should've never stopped em to begin with. You find something else in the car because you knew they were turds from the jump, you're racist and profiling. It's not profiling if I watch you leave a known drug house folks... Point is, you can't win. Folks don't like when people point out they are behaving badly. No different than parenting teens. Same mentality. "I hate you, I can't wait till I'm a big boy and can do what I want with my life!"

 

[UCStandSitter]

Obviously, I cannot translate the word "many" into a concrete number or even a percentage. It would most likely vary from region to region. As stated in another response, I believe rural cops are better overall. However, in policing, where liberty and life are often at stake, the fewer the better in terms of undesirable characters. Even a small percentage should not be tolerated. Therefore, police should be heavily scrutinized and diligently monitored by the public they serve. I am a teacher and a gunsmith. I have been teaching for 27 years and smithing for about 25 years. Yes, most definitely, I have seen very bad teachers. Over the years, I have encouraged some of those to seek other work. I confronted one privately when I saw something very inappropriate. So if you said many teachers were bad I would agree with you because many really are. In my building there are 45 teachers and many are not good teachers. Some are unorganized, some are not very personable, some have no management skills, and some are outright incompetent. Some are competent, some are good, and a few are exemplary. Painting with a broad brush is unwise but I genuinely do not believe I am. My observations where police are concerned are not based solely on my own interactions as for the most part they have been fine. I do not "hate" the police as you accuse me of doing. To me they are public servants, like I am as a teacher, paid from the public trough and need to be accountable for their actions as their decisions can deprive one of liberty and/or life.

Many teachers you know are bad so cops are bad? That's the argument you just made.

I don't wish to out myself but I will say, I worked with one bad officer. Myself and another officer saw to it he got gone. Most LEOs feel the same way. They don't want the badge tarnished by losers and stand up for what is right. The idea that these folks are tolerated isn't a correct assumption. I have no regrets about how that situation went down. Would do it the same way again because it was what was right.

 

[DaveTN]

Live PD was kinda good for a laugh now and again. Some episodes of Cops were good. I find that if I watch either for very long it puts me back into the mindset of why I left (well one of the reasons). Hearing the same people whine about the same things and how they are never wrong. I couldn't go back now and wouldn't. I'd pick up road kill by hand first...

I always say, everyone loves the hose draggers and hates the popo. Always cracked me up how certain areas (everyone knows areas like this) don't want cops around until something happens. Then it's "Well if you'd been here doing your job this wouldn't have happened. I pay your salary. You work for me!"

Live PD is back, it's now called "On Patrol".

I watch that and not a lot has changed in the last decades other than... They have computers in the cars. Everyone runs. They handcuff a lot of people that they don't arrest. They ask permission to search a lot of cars. However, I understand we are only seeing most interesting stuff they have going at the time.

People ask me if I miss it. I tell them "No, expect sometimes when I'm driving."

I do wish however that people like some of us could talk to young people and answers questions that they are getting a lot of bad info about. Parents should do this, but most aren't and when they do they are sometimes just giving the same old bad info. It's not fair to the kids.

 

[Rabbitkil]

You, of course, are entitled to your opinion and yes, there are no accounts in every walk of life. I wonder how many truly good ones there are when they tolerate the actions of the bad ones. There seems to be a significant difference between rural and urban cops. Rural cops tend to be more level headed on the whole. The militarization of police has attracted an unsavory element to their ranks. In the end, however, they are public servants paid by the taxpayer and need to be held to a very rigid standard of conduct. I have no desire to police others but any respect will be earned not blindly given.

I believe you meant to say that organizations such as BLM has made it where more bad ones are slipping in because of more openings because no one wants to put on the badge for the crumbs they get paid, and like you said rural cops are generally still a little more level headed because overall rural areas still respect law enforcement so the mass exodus of officers has happened like it has in the bigger cities

 

[UCStandSitter]

Live PD is back, it's now called "On Patrol".

I watch that and not a lot has changed in the last decades other than... They have computers in the cars. Everyone runs. They handcuff a lot of people that they don't arrest. They ask permission to search a lot of cars. However, I understand we are only seeing most interesting stuff they have going at the time.

People ask me if I miss it. I tell them "No, expect sometimes when I'm driving."

I do wish however that people like some of us could talk to young people and answers questions that they are getting a lot of bad info about. Parents should do this, but most aren't and when they do they are sometimes just giving the same old bad info. It's not fair to the kids.

Truth.

As part of teaching young men at church, I'd always get questions related to my time in law enforcement. I didn't want to get off topic too often but would commonly take time at the end of the lesson to answer questions and provide advice. Most folks get their legal advice from YouTube these days. Sad...

 

[348Winchester]

I was a city cop, and could have multiple backups with me usually within a couple of minutes if I saw something going wrong. Like you experienced, our County Deputies and State Police backup's from their own departments could be 15 minutes or more away. If they were close to the city, we had statewide radios and could go back them up if need be, they did the same for us.

That makes a difference in how you handle/control the situation.

Side note: I've never written a burned out taillight. But I have used that and other violations to stop a vehicle in citizens neighborhood's where I thought they may be criminals. If they checked out okay, they were sent on their way with a warning. As you know that's being proactive instead of reactive to burglaries etc. I'm sure you have done the same thing as have many other good cops. It also causes the "I was stopped over a taillight!" or when cops shoot violent criminals it's "He was shot for running a stop sign!" When things turn bad, the cause for the stop is usually irrelevant. Of course many are laser focused on that narrative.

Many teachers you know are bad so cops are bad? That's the argument you just made.

I don't wish to out myself but I will say, I worked with one bad officer. Myself and another officer saw to it he got gone. Most LEOs feel the same way. They don't want the badge tarnished by losers and stand up for what is right. The idea that these folks are tolerated isn't a correct assumption. I have no regrets about how that situation went down. Would do it the same way again because it was what was right.

No, that is not the argument I just made. I was agreeing with you that there are many "bad" in all professions. See how things get escalated? It seems experience is at work here!

 

[348Winchester]

Let me address your rural vs. urban cops (disclaimer, I was a rural deputy), urban cops typically have 5+ calls pending at any given time, relatively speaking depending on the day, time, moon phase and city. Backup is seconds/minutes away. They have the option, most of the time to wait for backup before they initiate contact with the individual. They're interpreting the law quickly and doing "micro investigations" on the spot to determine if a crime has been committed and what the "punishment" should be (i.e. ticket, arrest, warning, etc.). Rural cops on the other hand don't have the luxury, in most cases, of having backup close by and their calls could be a 15 min. drive from each other. They have to have more of a "command presence" when dealing with people initially and then they can taper that off if need be based on the individuals attitude towards them. When your backup is 30 min. away, you have to think differently and don't have much room for error. A truck full of drunk dudes could easily overpower you if they wanted to. THAT'S whey rural LEO's are perceived as "asswipes" often. They will mirror the asswipe they're dealing with or the cooperative person they're dealing with. Remember, LEO's are people, with families and as I've said before, they have a belt full of fun tools they're trained to use to ensure they get home safely.

Side note: A burned out tail light is illegal, might want to get that looked at unless you want to meet the entire police force.

See how something can be escalated? A burned out bulb is illegal and there are those that are itching to turn it into something more and call all the "force" ( appropriate choice of words) to use their "fun tools".

 

[UCStandSitter]

No, that is not the argument I just made. I was agreeing with you that there are many "bad" in all professions. See how things get escalated? It seems experience is at work here!

No. Not escalated. This is you not taking responsibility for an irresponsible comment you made earlier in this thread. If I came in a thread on education and said, "Ya know what I'd do? I'd take my kids out of public schools because MANY teachers are just plain bad and can't be trusted", you would be frustrated with that. As a teacher I expect you've taken your share of lumps from an ignorant public over the years as well. Folks who have never walked a mile in your shoes but feel qualified to tell you exactly how it is and how you should operate (and that they pay your salary). I would expect someone with that somewhat similar shared level of experience would understand why what you said earlier was over the line.

 

[Rabbitkil]

See how something can be escalated? A burned out bulb is illegal and there are those that are itching to turn it into something more and call all the "force" ( appropriate choice of words) to use their "fun tools".

You realize all those big drug busts coming in from Mexico, murders and various other major criminals are typically caught because of something as simple as a burnt out taillight

And you also realize once one burns out that only leaves 1 left wanna guess how often those bulbs are installed at the same time and what happens when they both burn out? I'd bet you would be surprised how many thousands of stops are made a day just to give them heads up a bulb is burned out and nothing more than that is said it's a courtesy as much as anything

 

[UCStandSitter]

See how something can be escalated? A burned out bulb is illegal and there are those that are itching to turn it into something more and call all the "force" ( appropriate choice of words) to use their "fun tools".

Primary stop violation...

What if they had your family member kidnapped in the trunk or a sack full of fentanyl they planned to sell to the kids you teach? How else are the officers supposed to make contact and discover those offenses? Think they are just gonna turn themselves in?

I like you brother. I really do but, you definitely have a problem with law enforcement for some reason and are trying to rationalize it. It isn't rational.

 

[Pilchard]

@348Winchester serious question. I suppose based on your comments that you are in favor of body cams for our police force. How do you feel about teacher cams so parents can review classroom footage?

 

[348Winchester]

No. Not escalated. This is you not taking responsibility for an irresponsible comment you made earlier in this thread. If I came in a thread on education and said, "Ya know what I'd do? I'd take my kids out of public schools because MANY teachers are just plain bad and can't be trusted", you would be frustrated with that. As a teacher I expect you've taken your share of lumps from an ignorant public over the years as well. Folks who have never walked a mile in your shoes but feel qualified to tell you exactly how it is and how you should operate (and that they pay your salary). I would expect someone with that somewhat similar shared level of experience would understand why what you said earlier was over the line.

I take responsibility for saying there are many bad cops! I truly believe there are. That is not "over the line"! I have never disagreed with anyone that wished to remove their children from public schools. It's their choice. If what I said is not true and I'm mistaken it will not be the first time that has ever occurred. As a public school teacher I must listen to those that "pay my salary" and I try my best to teach children to learn. It's not over the line to criticize the police.

 

[DaveTN]

Obviously, I cannot translate the word "many" into a concrete number or even a percentage. It would most likely vary from region to region. As stated in another response, I believe rural cops are better overall. However, in policing, where liberty and life are often at stake, the fewer the better in terms of undesirable characters. Even a small percentage should not be tolerated. Therefore, police should be heavily scrutinized and diligently monitored by the public they serve. I am a teacher and a gunsmith. I have been teaching for 27 years and smithing for about 25 years. Yes, most definitely, I have seen very bad teachers. Over the years, I have encouraged some of those to seek other work. I confronted one privately when I saw something very inappropriate. So if you said many teachers were bad I would agree with you because many really are. In my building there are 45 teachers and many are not good teachers. Some are unorganized, some are not very personable, some have no management skills, and some are outright incompetent. Some are competent, some are good, and a few are exemplary. Painting with a broad brush is unwise but I genuinely do not believe I am. My observations where police are concerned are not based solely on my own interactions as for the most part they have been fine. I do not "hate" the police as you accuse me of doing. To me they are public servants, like I am as a teacher, paid from the public trough and need to be accountable for their actions as their decisions can deprive one of liberty and/or life.

I was only on one PD, so I can't speak for many or all. But we had a citizens complaint procedure in place that was very good. If you walked in and wanted to make a complaint on an Officer, you would be given a "packet" with instructions on how to file your complaint. If you didn't want to write your complaint out a secretary would take your complaint, type it up and ask you to sign it. If a Command Officer was available they may speak to you. But never would they refuse to take a complaint, and the Chief of Police saw all complaints.

There were legitimate complaints, but many were those wanting to argue a ticket or a search. Those were usually handled by the District Attorney's office.

People want something done right then. There are three sides to every story. The Officer, the Citizen, and what actually happened. That requires investigation.

Many people that are treated poorly don't want to make a complaint for fear of retaliation or just don't want to take the time to do it. I get that.

If you think you are talking to a bad cop, don't provoke them; that's not smart. Deal with it later.

As far as an Officers actions impacting liberty and/or life, you are absolutely correct. But teachers impact the young lives far more than cops do. And just like many not liking what they are seeing with cops… many of us don't like what we are seeing being taught to kids.

 

[UCStandSitter]

I take responsibility for saying there are many bad cops! I truly believe there are. That is not "over the line"! I have never disagreed with anyone that wished to remove their children from public schools. It's their choice. If what I said is not true and I'm mistaken it will not be the first time that has ever occurred. As a public school teacher I must listen to those that "pay my salary" and I try my best to teach children to learn. It's not over the line to criticize the police.

Well then I guess all I can say to you is good luck brother. I said what I believe and you said what you believe.

If you are content with disparaging folks without cause, nothing I can say will change that. I genuinely hope you never require assistance from any of these horrible officers.

 

[348Winchester]

@348Winchester serious question. I suppose based on your comments that you are in favor of body cams for our police force. How do you feel about teacher cams so parents can review classroom footage?

I think the money spent on them for cops and teachers is a further burden for us tax slaves but I understand the rationale behind it.

 

[348Winchester]

I was only on one PD, so I can't speak for many or all. But we had a citizens complaint procedure in place that was very good. If you walked in and wanted to make a complaint on an Officer, you would be given a "packet" with instructions on how to file your complaint. If you didn't want to write your complaint out a secretary would take your complaint, type it up and ask you to sign it. If a Command Officer was available they may speak to you. But never would they refuse to take a complaint, and the Chief of Police saw all complaints.

There were legitimate complaints, but many were those wanting to argue a ticket or a search. Those were usually handled by the District Attorney's office.

People want something done right then. There are three sides to every story. The Officer, the Citizen, and what actually happened. That requires investigation.

Many people that are treated poorly don't want to make a complaint for fear of retaliation or just don't want to take the time to do it. I get that.

If you think you are talking to a bad cop, don't provoke them; that's not smart. Deal with it later.

As far as an Officers actions impacting liberty and/or life, you are absolutely correct. But teachers impact the young lives far more than cops do. And just like many not liking what they are seeing with cops… many of us don't like what we are seeing being taught to kids.

Excellent! I do not like what is being taught to kids either. Even more so, I despise what is NOT being taught and that is to question everything and to use reason to deduce the best answer.