Poleaxe
Well-Known Member
Setterman":fnew8r65 said:
Does any other states have restrictions or outlaw decoy, blind, and fanning?
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Does any other states have restrictions or outlaw decoy, blind, and fanning?
callemquacktn
Well-Known Member
Did anyone watch the latest TWRC/Twra meeting on 4/15/16? It's on TWRA TV.
Setterman
Well-Known Member
Poleaxe":3tbpwxz3 said:
Several, but I'm braindead this morning and can't remember. They were illegal in Alabama forever until about 5 years ago, and that's when their population went into the tank. It's the root problem across the country and worse when recruitment suffers due to bad hatches
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
DECOYS . . . . ? . . . . 
First, I'm not disagreeing with Setterman about the negative ramifications of decoys, but do question whether or not they might be the "root problem". Perhaps in Alabama, those poor hatches were more the root problem, and too many hunters simply killing too many turkeys was a bigger problem than the use of decoys?
My take on some of those negative ramifications mainly involve the hunters who exclusively use decoys maybe never learning some of the more refined skills of just "hunting" period (without the use of blinds, decoys, etc.) But then I guess, similar might could be said of others who rely on purchased turkey calls (box, slate, diaphragm, etc.), as opposed to just learning to make the turkey calling sounds with our bare mouths (without a store-bought call).
I'm sure those decoy ramifications vary greatly from region to region, as do the opportunities for more traditional turkey-hunting tactics.
But in most the general areas where I'm hunting, the majority of turkeys being killed do not appear to get killed around decoys. More seem to get killed by the more avid, more accomplished turkey hunters, with most of them either not using decoys, or using decoys less of the time when they kill a turkey. Many hunters are just "flexible", and may sometimes use a decoy, but like me, see decoys as much a hunting liability as a hunting asset. I often believe the use of decoys can prevent more kills than they might help you make.
Yes, decoys may be worse a problem when recruitment suffers from bad hatches.
But then so are all the other factors worse problems when recruitment suffers from bad hatches.
When any avid hunter limits out with his 4 birds every spring, to what extent killing that many birds might be harmful to the population, it's definitely much worse following bad hatches. So is fall hunting and shooting hens.
Personally, I don't care whether decoys remain legal or become illegal. I can do fine without them, even though I do sometimes use one in certain circumstances, just as often regretting having done it when a bird hangs up out of range upon seeing that decoy. I'm just questioning if there's much true need to outlaw decoys. I'd rather outlaw a 4-bird limit and fall hunting first, then just let those who believe they need decoys continue to have that option.
My personal opinion, from a regulatory stance, to keep things simple, to provide the most opportunity to the most hunters, while improving our turkey population:
Simply do away with fall turkey hunting, and reduce the spring gobbler limit.
I would prefer a simple 2-bird limit, and don't care one way or the other whether jakes remain legal.
The best years of turkey hunting I've ever experienced in Tennessee were back when we had a 2-bird spring limit, and no fall hunting. In these same areas, the habitat has improved, not declined, and remains about the same huntable acreage as during the 90's. Due to improved nesting habitat, nesting success SHOULD have improved. One would have expected the turkey population to increase rather than decline.
Yes, we occasionally have a year or two of poor nesting success from a variety of causes; happens everywhere. But we do not have 10 -15 consecutive years of poor nesting success, and what I'm seeing does not appear to be primarily caused by poor nesting success. In fact, for 2015 & 2014, my areas appeared to have above average nesting success, yet the turkey hunting this spring (at least for me) has not been as good as it was back in the 1990's and maybe up until about 2005.
The only significant changes I can put a finger: The spring gobbler limit was doubled from 2 to 4; fall turkey hunting picked up. Even more ironic, we probably have slightly fewer turkey hunters in my primary areas, albeit they may be more "effective" hunters than they were two and three decades ago (more experience, more tactical options, longer-range guns, better turkey shells, better turkey calls, etc.)
Many are in part blaming the population decline (or perception of decline) on increased coyote predation. In my areas, I see little difference in the coyote population now vs the decade of the 90's. But I do believe coyotes and other predators have adapted a little to focus more on turkeys, while the turkeys have adapted a little to focus on not being prey, perhaps resulting in less gobbling, and the birds adapting to using more heavier cover areas (and getting out in fields and open areas less).
I believe fall hunting causes more bird deaths than just what the fall turkey hunters "check in" per TWRA, as every time human hunters break up a flock, they increase the opportunity for predation by the non-human hunters. Not to mention all those birds that end up with a pellet in their gut, dying a few days later with the guy who pulled the trigger never knowing. (This "collateral" damage is more an issue with fall turkey hunting than spring hunting.)
Setterman":17hrm2u8 said:
First, I'm not disagreeing with Setterman about the negative ramifications of decoys, but do question whether or not they might be the "root problem". Perhaps in Alabama, those poor hatches were more the root problem, and too many hunters simply killing too many turkeys was a bigger problem than the use of decoys?
My take on some of those negative ramifications mainly involve the hunters who exclusively use decoys maybe never learning some of the more refined skills of just "hunting" period (without the use of blinds, decoys, etc.) But then I guess, similar might could be said of others who rely on purchased turkey calls (box, slate, diaphragm, etc.), as opposed to just learning to make the turkey calling sounds with our bare mouths (without a store-bought call).
I'm sure those decoy ramifications vary greatly from region to region, as do the opportunities for more traditional turkey-hunting tactics.
But in most the general areas where I'm hunting, the majority of turkeys being killed do not appear to get killed around decoys. More seem to get killed by the more avid, more accomplished turkey hunters, with most of them either not using decoys, or using decoys less of the time when they kill a turkey. Many hunters are just "flexible", and may sometimes use a decoy, but like me, see decoys as much a hunting liability as a hunting asset. I often believe the use of decoys can prevent more kills than they might help you make.
Yes, decoys may be worse a problem when recruitment suffers from bad hatches.
But then so are all the other factors worse problems when recruitment suffers from bad hatches.
When any avid hunter limits out with his 4 birds every spring, to what extent killing that many birds might be harmful to the population, it's definitely much worse following bad hatches. So is fall hunting and shooting hens.
Personally, I don't care whether decoys remain legal or become illegal. I can do fine without them, even though I do sometimes use one in certain circumstances, just as often regretting having done it when a bird hangs up out of range upon seeing that decoy. I'm just questioning if there's much true need to outlaw decoys. I'd rather outlaw a 4-bird limit and fall hunting first, then just let those who believe they need decoys continue to have that option.
My personal opinion, from a regulatory stance, to keep things simple, to provide the most opportunity to the most hunters, while improving our turkey population:
Simply do away with fall turkey hunting, and reduce the spring gobbler limit.
I would prefer a simple 2-bird limit, and don't care one way or the other whether jakes remain legal.
The best years of turkey hunting I've ever experienced in Tennessee were back when we had a 2-bird spring limit, and no fall hunting. In these same areas, the habitat has improved, not declined, and remains about the same huntable acreage as during the 90's. Due to improved nesting habitat, nesting success SHOULD have improved. One would have expected the turkey population to increase rather than decline.
Yes, we occasionally have a year or two of poor nesting success from a variety of causes; happens everywhere. But we do not have 10 -15 consecutive years of poor nesting success, and what I'm seeing does not appear to be primarily caused by poor nesting success. In fact, for 2015 & 2014, my areas appeared to have above average nesting success, yet the turkey hunting this spring (at least for me) has not been as good as it was back in the 1990's and maybe up until about 2005.
The only significant changes I can put a finger: The spring gobbler limit was doubled from 2 to 4; fall turkey hunting picked up. Even more ironic, we probably have slightly fewer turkey hunters in my primary areas, albeit they may be more "effective" hunters than they were two and three decades ago (more experience, more tactical options, longer-range guns, better turkey shells, better turkey calls, etc.)
Many are in part blaming the population decline (or perception of decline) on increased coyote predation. In my areas, I see little difference in the coyote population now vs the decade of the 90's. But I do believe coyotes and other predators have adapted a little to focus more on turkeys, while the turkeys have adapted a little to focus on not being prey, perhaps resulting in less gobbling, and the birds adapting to using more heavier cover areas (and getting out in fields and open areas less).
I believe fall hunting causes more bird deaths than just what the fall turkey hunters "check in" per TWRA, as every time human hunters break up a flock, they increase the opportunity for predation by the non-human hunters. Not to mention all those birds that end up with a pellet in their gut, dying a few days later with the guy who pulled the trigger never knowing. (This "collateral" damage is more an issue with fall turkey hunting than spring hunting.)
Beard Buster
Well-Known Member
IMO decoys and fanning will not become illegal
too much money in the decoy industry
IMO 2 bird limit statewide will allow for hunters to kill how they like
and if it gets the fanning and decoy hunters out of the woods faster
the better we all will be
too much money in the decoy industry
IMO 2 bird limit statewide will allow for hunters to kill how they like
and if it gets the fanning and decoy hunters out of the woods faster
the better we all will be
letsgohunting
Well-Known Member
"Simply do away with fall turkey hunting, and reduce the spring gobbler limit.
I would prefer a simple 2-bird limit, and don't care one way or the other whether jakes remain legal."
BINGO!!!
I would prefer a simple 2-bird limit, and don't care one way or the other whether jakes remain legal."
BINGO!!!
Tennessee Lead
Well-Known Member
Outlaw decoys you'll have less hunters afield which results in less birds killed problem solved
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Seriously, I don't think that would happen to the extent implied.Tennessee Lead":3uhturld said:
I think more of what would happen is the hunters just stop using decoys, and are then amazed at how little difference they made regarding whether they kill or don't kill turkeys.
Lots of turkey-killing opportunities are lost simply to "messing" with decoys (carrying them, placing them, retrieving them, being less mobile because of them, etc.); then, lots of birds coming into a call, hang up upon seeing a decoy, and would have been killed without a decoy. But, yes, decoys can be an asset about half the time, a liability the other half, but generally more trouble than they're worth imo.
Tennessee Lead
Well-Known Member
Some guys probably couldTheLBLman":2x1mqo3y said:
However it would eliminate a lot of the what I would call "Lazy" hunters who won't take the time to learn how to hunt turkey's that camp in a tent over a strutting decoy and kill 3-4 birds a year. Just think of how many that would save. Then it could also free up places to hunt again since Joe cool can't give dirt naps anymore and decides he can still be Mr cool and start fishing tournaments instead.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I totally understand your line of thought, and it would definitely be correct regarding some hunters.Tennessee Lead":1ypj8lfz said:
I just believe the majority of those "lazy" hunters would still end up going hunting and killing about as many turkeys without their decoys as they did with them.
Also, they're not all "lazy". For many, it's an issue of only having a small tract to hunt, and it may not make sense to be walking around simply running off the birds onto the adjoining tract you cannot legally hunt. Many hunters are simply adjusting their tactics to their circumstances.
Tennessee Lead
Well-Known Member
I do realize that about the small tracts of land. That's why I no longer run hounds at night. Changing of the times but doesn't mean I still have to like it [emoji1].TheLBLman":3se4rntz said:
Decoys have been legal in Alabama since 2005, so there goes that theory 
. And, they were the last state to legalize them. There are no states where they are illegal.
It's ironic that they were made legal the same year Bama legalized crossbows
!
I thought this was funny in the article I found from former Auburn football coach, Pat Dye. At Thursday's hearing, hunters seemed evenly divided on the issues.
Dye spoke up in favor of legalizing crossbows and turkey decoys.
"There ain't a damn thing that says you have to take a decoy out there and set it up if you don't want to," Dye said. "But if you want to use one, you ought to be able to."
Dye said the most important issue was getting more people involved in hunting. He believes the additional opportunities provided by crossbows and turkey decoys could do that.
. And, they were the last state to legalize them. There are no states where they are illegal.It's ironic that they were made legal the same year Bama legalized crossbows
!I thought this was funny in the article I found from former Auburn football coach, Pat Dye. At Thursday's hearing, hunters seemed evenly divided on the issues.
Dye spoke up in favor of legalizing crossbows and turkey decoys.
"There ain't a damn thing that says you have to take a decoy out there and set it up if you don't want to," Dye said. "But if you want to use one, you ought to be able to."
Dye said the most important issue was getting more people involved in hunting. He believes the additional opportunities provided by crossbows and turkey decoys could do that.
SKFOOTER
Well-Known Member
I sure do miss Jack Murray!!!!! 
Setterman
Well-Known Member
PalsPal":15y1pdpd said:Decoys have been legal in Alabama since 2005, so there goes that theory
It's ironic that they were made legal the same year Bama legalized crossbows
I thought this was funny in the article I found from former Auburn football coach, Pat Dye. At Thursday's hearing, hunters seemed evenly divided on the issues.
Dye spoke up in favor of legalizing crossbows and turkey decoys.
"There ain't a ***** thing that says you have to take a decoy out there and set it up if you don't want to," Dye said. "But if you want to use one, you ought to be able to."
Dye said the most important issue was getting more people involved in hunting. He believes the additional opportunities provided by crossbows and turkey decoys could do that.
As a life long Auburn fan and Auburn grad along with being family friends with the entire Dye family going back to his home town in Georgia all the way to today. I can say with 100% certainty his knowledge of turkeys ranks right about 0. He doesn't hunt them not care and thinks they negatively Impact quail numbers. I've had the luxury to hunt his land for decades in Auburn.
Decoys are a crutch and they allow lesser skilled hunters to have great success when these same hunters would fail without them. Thus removing birds from the flock which lowers the numbers of birds carrying over each year. there's no way to deny this and there's zero defense as well. Be my guest if you can
Poleaxe
Well-Known Member
I'm new to Turkey hunting but veteran smelling BS. If little Jonny wants to go use a decoy let him use it. It's better for the other man that wants to shed a tear over it to set back and stick a cork in it. Maybe we might have a problem with population. That's fine. Your greed and jealously that thinks everyone should hunt like you if not if gives them to much of an advantage is beyond hilarious. At the end of the day we don't give a flip how someone turkey hunting is successful.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I'd like to be your guest, then. :tu:Setterman":351fyowc said:Decoys are a crutch and they allow lesser skilled hunters to have great success when these same hunters would fail without them. Thus removing birds from the flock which lowers the numbers of birds carrying over each year. there's no way to deny this and there's zero defense as well. Be my guest if you can
I will agree with you that decoys can be a "crutch" and allow lesser skilled hunters to have killing success at times they otherwise wouldn't. But we must also acknowledge the fact that decoys are often a liability, for hunters of all skill levels.
I will agree with you that removing birds from the flock, no matter how, the end result is same.
Where you do the most of your hunting and observations may have been very different than mine, so I'm not going to attack you for your beliefs. Just saying I'm seeing some of your decoy issue a little different.
I see a lot of accomplished turkey hunters, this would include you, almost every year limiting out on turkeys in TN, with our current 4-bird limit. Meanwhile, those lowly skilled hunters using decoys appear to be averaging far fewer birds per hunter, and by my count, not even averaging a single bird a year. Yet it would be unheard of for me and you to not kill multiple birds every year.
Just saying I believe we could remove fewer birds from the flock, if more hunters like me and you were willing to have a lower bag limit, and not be so upset about those using decoys. I believe many of them will stop using decoys on their own, should they continue to turkey hunt over time. Others, unlike me and you, are mainly hunting small tracts where there is little opportunity to engage in the more "traditional" style of turkey hunting you and I enjoy most.
Currently, I just try to make it work to my advantage when I'm hunting in areas where other hunters are believed to be using decoys. One positive (for me), is I can determine their location, and they're not so directly competing with my preferred style of turkey hunting. This can be particularly true on public land when you observe a truck parked near where you were parking, then see their "tent" out in a field where they're walking around setting out their decoys (never realizing the birds are watching them, maybe hearing them). They can just have that spot, as I move on to greener pastures.
Beard Buster
Well-Known Member
Like I said before
Decoys are here to stay
way too much money involved
Put a two bird limit on us and let the decoy hunters have at it
Like a lot of people have said
most of these decoy hunters have access to large farms where they
pop up a tent and put out decoys and kill in the first 15 minutes after fly down
Decoys are here to stay
way too much money involved
Put a two bird limit on us and let the decoy hunters have at it
Like a lot of people have said
most of these decoy hunters have access to large farms where they
pop up a tent and put out decoys and kill in the first 15 minutes after fly down
Tennessee Lead
Well-Known Member
^^^^ Everyone ain't interested in a 2 bird limit.
No need in it here. The sky ain't falling. Turkeys are thick as fleas on a dog. Not interested in 2 and done.
No need in it here. The sky ain't falling. Turkeys are thick as fleas on a dog. Not interested in 2 and done.
