Harvest numbers don't reflect the season

[Shooter77]

All this talk about turkey numbers down had me wondering if this was true. This season has been the worst for me. I've only had 1 day that I heard gobbling on the roost. Only 2 hunts did I pick up gobbling on the ground. One was 2 hours after sunup and the other was late in the afternoon. One farm is the called "The Turkey Farm" because of the amount of birds on it. This 80 acre track, held 7 gobblers last spring, along with 6 jakes & numerous hens. This year, I've seen 3 jakes on it. My 4 trail cams have shown me the 3 jakes and 1 hen all year. My VA farms have been the same way. I had 5 gobblers on it last year. I killed 1 & dad killed 1. This year, I've heard 1 bird on 4 hunts. This AM was a perfect condition for birds to be hammering. Zero gobbles. So i was wondering if harvest totals have been as bad as my season and others I know have been for upper East TN. Below is the chart data since 2006. Trend actually shows a increase or stable for 5 of the 7 counties. Sad thing, Greene has went from 1100 birds in 2006 to 696 this year.Hawkins has seen a drop since 2010. I still have a huge concern about the state's turkey population. I do feel it's decreasing and sent a email and called about changes in the new hunting regs.

 

[Setterman]

I agree harvest numbers don't neccessarily equate to the state of our population, and in some regards neither do what we as hunters see/hear. However, there's no doubt things are declining where I hunt.

This has been the toughest I've ever seen TN, and there's nothing even remotely close. It's a struggle to find a gobbling bird on the virtually unlimited acreage I hunt.

I can and did travel just 5 miles away into KY quite a bit, and in basically the same habitat and terrain gobbling birds were plentiful throughout their season. I could leave KY with birds hammering drive a few miles back to TN and was always greeted with silence.

We've exploited our resource to much and are suffering because of it. Sure nature played a part, but TWRA got over zealous with their limits.

Harvests will remain fairly high though because most hunters now sit camped in fields with decoys, any bird that is the least bit dominant will get killed whether he gobbles or not. Therefore kills will continue because the direction the sport has headed. Rather than leaving a few birds to insulate the population now even the toughest to kill are being killed, many times by hunters who would never stand a chance.

It's a really bad trend, and I for one appreciate your willingness to speak out.

 

[TheLBLman]

We've exploited our resource to much and are suffering because of it. Sure nature played a part, but TWRA got over zealous with their limits.

I'm afraid you a correct, and most unfortunately, very few have recognized what's been happening to our turkeys. It's not just the limits, but the fact we have a very long turkey season. Many seem so focused on attacking the messengers that they fail to realize the validity of the messages. It is a really big revelation that the "average" KY hunter has a higher success rate in killing "a" turkey, even though that KY season is half as long and has a 2-bird limit. Of course, no KY hunter kills more than two, but the revelation is that more of them kill one than do in TN.

Among those failing to see the severity of the issue, those who believe they're only taking a "reasonable" percentage of "their" turkeys on the "farms" or land they're hunting. IMO, most are failing to appreciate just how much turkeys move around, and that those turkeys don't know where one farm ends and another begins. For every one of us who it thinking something such as, "Hey, there are 4 longbeards on this farm, and I'm only going to take 2 of them," well, there's another guy on the adjoining farm thinking those same 4 longbeards are "his", and he's only going to take a couple of them. So each of them kills a couple (wiping out all four birds), then they both move over to another farm and repeat the process.

While my 2015 turkey hunting has been limited to a single county that has historically had a fairly stable turkey flock, despite widespread habitat improvements, the turkey population seems to be less than in 2014 and 2013. For certain, I heard the least gobbling this year in probably over 20 years of my turkey hunting many of these same areas of this county. My 2015 season was either the worst or 2nd worst turkey hunting I've had in the past 20 years. The sky may not be falling, but I believe we're trending the wrong direction. And concerning me every bit as much as the statewide declines, is the appearance that TWRA's top turkey folks are so oblivious to there being a problem, much less that they may be a part of it.

IMO, TWRA should never have increased the spring limit above 3, and they should never have started a fall season. They could easily reverse this, and they have much more hard data to support a reduction than they ever had to support their increases.

 

[Setterman]

My good gracious Wes, outstanding post and perfectly sums up everything I feel.

Your perspective on how an individual hunter sees their flock is also spot on.

My hands are dirty like a bunch of others, as I've killed 4 every year since the limit was raised. I would never consider myself greedy, but in reality I have been around here, things seemed fine and like a light switch its not fine, it's freaking sad how few birds I've heard gobble in TN compared to past years.

This year I've heard less gobbling in TN then any other seasons I've hunted here which go back to when we had a 2 bird limit. These same places that are silent now, used to erupt every morning with gobbling birds. A few miles away there seemed to be more birds then ever before, nothing but a state line being the difference

What frustrates me the most is the arrogant, oblivious staff paid for by us to manage our population. The staff that hides behind closed doors and never addresses any concerns. I firmly believe they think we are so beneath them intellectually that we aren't worth their effort or time to listen to. It's such a dramatic contrast to the folks who manage the deer herd that it's shocking. The deer folks clearly communicate the ins and outs of every aspect of their plans.

Sadly we pay their salaries but have zero ability to fire all of them for their actions or lack there of. Something is really wrong with this imo.

It's past time for those in charge to open their doors and address the issue. Heck, our elected officials as worthless as they are even take time to face the public. Why can't our turkey biologists?

 

[muddyboots]

I complained the first year the limit went to 4. No one wanted to hear it. I hope we fix it.

 

[Setterman]

I complained the first year the limit went to 4. No one wanted to hear it. I hope we fix it.

We were complaining together if I recall, and we got blasted for it also as I recall

 

[Gravey]

Just voice your opinions. I sent an email today with my opinions on deer and turkeys. Since we're in the turkey forum I'll say I asked that the limit be reduced to 2 male birds, eliminate the fall season, and remove the ability to ever kill a hen. We'll see what happens.

 

[dogman1702]

I hunted Greene county and seen a ton of gobblers. Gobbling was way down. But they were there the Washington county numbers surprised me. I ai t done no good there since 06.. I would like to see a 2 bird limit though.

 

[callemquacktn]

I complained the first year the limit went to 4. No one wanted to hear it. I hope we fix it.

We were complaining together if I recall, and we got blasted for it also as I recall

Both of yall say that yall complained about the increase in limit to 4 but how many yrs have you went ahead and still killed your 4 even though you was " against" it? Just because the limit is 4 doesn't mean you have to kill it.
If memory serves me correctly it was 2 yrs ago the Muddy was saying this was the best season ever for his lease and they was slaying them left and right.

 

[Setterman]

I complained the first year the limit went to 4. No one wanted to hear it. I hope we fix it.

We were complaining together if I recall, and we got blasted for it also as I recall

Both of yall say that yall complained about the increase in limit to 4 but how many yrs have you went ahead and still killed your 4 even though you was " against" it? Just because the limit is 4 doesn't mean you have to kill it.
If memory serves me correctly it was 2 yrs ago the Muddy was saying this was the best season ever for his lease and they was slaying them left and right.

Time and again I've said my hands weren't clean, I don't understand why you can't comprehend or read the words I've written a hundred times or more.

 

[callemquacktn]

I say the OP is correct for me too but in the other direction. I say the kill numbers were not enough for as good as the season was for me. In 24 seasons this was one of my top 5 if not top 3 ever.
Not only from size of birds I killed but from the amount of times I was " in the game" . Gobbling was above average too. The one down side I would say was the competition was heavier this yr as I think more people are losing private ground and having to hunt public but that is the way it goes.

 

[callemquacktn]

It's one thing to say your hands a dirty as a hind sight to what has become, but it is another thing for the 2 of yall to claim to be against something from the beginning but still partake in it.

For me that makes yall a hypocrite. Not trying to call names just saying what it is called.

For me I was a guilty one. I didn't see the limit increase as a bad thing and we killed the crap out of turkeys on this 1 farm until about 8 yrs ago I seen the writing on the wall so to speak about what killing too many birds from one area could do. That yr we only seen 2 gobblers when the yr previously we was seeing well over a dozen. That yr we did not kill a bird there. We got our 4 a piece we just hunted else where. From that yr on we only killed 1 or 2 birds a piece until we seen number like they used to be. When we lost that farm to it being sold we lost one of the best turkey farms in Bedford county.

I think there is more of a issue with over hunting areas and the amount of jakes killed as anything.

 

[Setterman]

Again if you read previous posts by me I called myself a hypocrite. Now my situation is very different then most hunters, but I'm still hypocritical but also recognize that the limit is too high

 

[callemquacktn]

I will admit I haven't read everything in these threads. It's just too much to keep up with. Lol

 

[woodsman87]

I still do not believe the limits of 4 have alot to do with it. It has some effect though.

It is all about nesting success, and we haven't had it.

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[Roost 1]

I don't see how you couldn't believe over-harvest isn't part of the problem....I'll say it again, we can't control poor hatches but we can or should have a say about the bag limits....if everyone wasn't trying to out-do their buddy there prolly wouldn't be an issue...... Somewhere along the way we, as hunters, have to take responsibility..... Bottom line...

 

[Vermin93]

Serious question - do you think the TWRA wildlife managers and turkey biologists read this forum? To be more specific, I wonder if Daryl Ratajczak and Roger Applegate are following all of these recent threads about the perceived decline of turkey hunting in TN?

 

[woodsman87]

I don't see how you couldn't believe over-harvest isn't part of the problem....I'll say it again, we can't control poor hatches but we can or should have a say about the bag limits....if everyone wasn't trying to out-do their buddy there prolly wouldn't be an issue...... Somewhere along the way we, as hunters, have to take responsibility..... Bottom line...

Im still a believer that gobblers can be killed after breeding with little effect, as long as jakes are not killed or hens.

Maybe they do not breed as good as some biologist say though, so my beliefs may change.

I think they should forfiet the season in southern middle for the next two years and see what happens





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[woodsman87]

Serious question - do you think the TWRA wildlife managers and turkey biologists read this forum? To be more specific, I wonder if Daryl Ratajczak and Roger Applegate are following all of these recent threads about the perceived decline of turkey hunting in TN?

I have always wondered this. Although they got the degree, they aren't out there living our life either. They have no clue, and probably never heard of the area names i hunt....





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[woodsman87]

I don't see how you couldn't believe over-harvest isn't part of the problem....I'll say it again, we can't control poor hatches but we can or should have a say about the bag limits....if everyone wasn't trying to out-do their buddy there prolly wouldn't be an issue...... Somewhere along the way we, as hunters, have to take responsibility..... Bottom line...

I Think when, if ever, we get two or three good hatches we will be like we once were, regardless of harvest limits. If it were to coincide with each other, I may sway my thinking some but overall I will not.





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