Harvest numbers

[TheLBLman]

The state turkey managers in KY believe the season should have fewer days, open later, and have half the limit of Tennessee's turkey season.

Why do their "statewide" thoughts on turkey management differ this much?

Should we copy there deer regulations also?

Not wanting that, as I prefer our current 2-buck limit in TN rather than KY's 1-buck limit.

However, it is noteworthy, that back in the late 90's KY had a 1-buck limit,
most KY hunters were happy with it, and remain so today, as KY has had little change in their deer regs,
let's say since 1998.

Since 1998, TN's deer regs have changed much more dramatically.
We went from an 11-buck limit, to a 2-buck limit (just one year, 1998), then to a "modified" 2-3-buck limit, which was simply a 3-buck limit for the more avid deer hunters, and only a 2-buck limit for the "average" deer hunter who at the time only hunted with a modern firearm. Then our buck limit went to 3 for everyone, now back to simply 2 for everyone.

KY has simply had a 1-buck limit, and been much easier to keep up with than our constantly changing regs.

My hope is KY will some day go to a 2-buck limit, and both states will be on the same page :tu:

 

[TheLBLman]

I can see some parallels between Tennessee's once 11-buck limit and Tennessee's current 4-bird turkey limit harming the resources.

Certainly NOT an apples-to-apples comparison, but KY has had a 1-buck limit and a 2-bird limit for a long time
and their deer & turkey resources may be in better shape than ours in TN?

Keep in mind game bag "limits" are only one part of a large equation.
Compared to KY, TN has about twice as many gun-hunting days for deer hunting;
TN has nearly twice as many days in the season for turkey hunting as well.

 

[Andy S.]

I don't know, but I can speak about the virtual collapse of the turkey population in my area practically overnight. Fall/winter of 2017.

I have a close friend that is feeling your pain as well over the last two seasons. He leases 2,000 acres of pretty hardwoods, some cutover and some ag fields in SW Hickman county that used to be covered in turkeys, and he could easily hear 2-4 birds gobbling at various locations on his lease, so 8-10 birds at the beginning of season. They would either be on him, or on his neighbors gobbling first week. He hunted the first four days this year, heard 2 birds total, managed to call one of them up, and it was a gobbling jake. Of course, the jake got the pass. It is very disheartening to pay good money for a turkey lease and basically have zero hope after the first four days of season. He plans to give it a whirl again later in the season, but not sure he could shoot the ONLY one he has heard up until now. If you care about next year, and subsequent years, you do not shoot the only one you have gobbling this year.

 

[poorhunter]

I don't know, but I can speak about the virtual collapse of the turkey population in my area practically overnight. Fall/winter of 2017.

I have a close friend that is feeling your pain as well over the last two seasons. He leases 2,000 acres of pretty hardwoods, some cutover and some ag fields in SW Hickman county that used to be covered in turkeys, and he could easily hear 2-4 birds gobbling at various locations on his lease, so 8-10 birds at the beginning of season. They would either be on him, or on his neighbors gobbling first week. He hunted the first four days this year, heard 2 birds total, managed to call one of them up, and it was a gobbling jake. Of course, the jake got the pass. It is very disheartening to pay good money for a turkey lease and basically have zero hope after the first four days of season. He plans to give it a whirl again later in the season, but not sure he could shoot the ONLY one he has heard up until now. If you care about next year, and subsequent years, you do not shoot the only one you have gobbling this year.

Yep, my farms are all in very SW Hickman as well. Thankfully I don't have to pay to hunt though! I'm blessed to have friends with land that don't hunt.

 

[Bone Collector]

I just checked it. I can't imagine it is a glitch with everyone getting the same types of #'s.

Last year from opening day of Juvi until the Friday after the opener 9,847 birds all in (males and bearded females)
This year same time period 5,250. that is a 46.6% decrease YoY.

 

[TheLBLman]

I do believe the turkey population and the turkey kill will end DOWN again this year.
But, also believe a contributing factor to the early season kill being down this year,
is the winter flocks have been a little behind on breaking up this spring.

There are still vast areas now with relatively few birds,
that will have more birds in another week as the dispuring flocks scatter better around the countryside.

 

[Levee Jumper]

My two cents.... I have hunted 6 of the first 7 days of season pretty hard. I've only hunted public but have hunted multiple wma's and put in around 35-40 miles on the boots. The birds are definitely behind this year and still flocked up but seem at least a week behind schedule. I was fortunate to kill a 3 yr. old on day 1 around 11:30 that was subordinate but in the bubble of 15 or so hens. Day 2 and 3 was quiet and the birds I did find were henned up terribly bad. Day 4 produced a fired up 3 or 4 year old at 12:30 (Textbook hot henless turkey). Day 5 yielded nothing but frustration. The only interested bird was on private and henned up. Day 6 I didn't hear a bird until 11:05 but when I did strike one it was a textbook 2 yr. ready to die. It covered 400 yards through the timber in about 15 min.

In all I saw 5 gobblers on public (3 of which are now dead) and ran into 13 hunters in the 6 days. 1 of the 3 turkeys was previously shot with what looked like copper plated 6's. Best I could tell it was last year. IMO for as flocked up as the birds are I am Concerned with the lack of hens/jakes that I have ran into. I think the good years of turkey hunting are just about over. I certainly hope that the regs change before it becomes hard to even hear one gobble.

For what it's worth I'm all for moving the season back two weeks and reducing the limit to two. I'm also all for outlawing decoys because I don't find them effective in the woods enough to justify carrying them around.

 

[BackwoodsBoy]

The limits are too liberal, at least they finally cut back on the insane fall season. The spring gobbler limit needs reduced to two IMO.

 

[Levee Jumper]

Roughly 6162 through juvy hunt and the first 8 days of regular season, must be the bad weather again....

 

[Setterman]

Roughly 6162 through juvy hunt and the first 8 days of regular season, must be the bad weather again....

That's a horrifying number. Weather has been really pretty stellar this year so that can't be used.

If this sticks I'm not sure what we do

 

[poorhunter]

Roughly 6162 through juvy hunt and the first 8 days of regular season, must be the bad weather again....

That's a horrifying number. Weather has been really pretty stellar this year so that can't be used.

If this sticks I'm not sure what we do

If it continues for another week(can't see any reason it will change though) I'm all for closing the season. Stop the bleeding, and change the regs next year.

 

[AT Hiker]

Nah, looks like we are gonna start from scratch. [emoji20]


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[TheLBLman]

Before the mob mentality burns the TWRA turkey biologist(s) at the stake,
just a few more observations . . . . . . . .

Despite TWRA's apparent deficiencies in responding quicker to dwindling turkey numbers,
I do believe any reasonable regulatory changes may have made only a small effect,
and we would still have seen dwindling turkey numbers (and lower reported turkey harvests by hunters).

As evidence, just take a look at the same dwindling turkey population at LBL,
where the turkeys have been much better managed (via hunting regs), in fact,
already having done for years what many of us think should be done with TN's statewide regs.

LBL's turkey hunting begins about 2 weeks later than TN's statewide.
The annual limit is two birds.
Both the turkey population and the hunter kills have been going down here over the past few years.
Just saying, the hunting regs are one of many factors, albeit one of the few we have some control.
Yet, LBL has experienced dwindling turkey populations, even with these regs.

 

[TheLBLman]

Regarding the correlation of reported harvest to dwindling turkey numbers,
I do not believe the population has "dwindled" as much as the reported harvest (to date).

When hunters perceive less opportunity, on average, they collectively tend to go back hunting less often, and often don't hunt as long or as hard. By contrast, when hunters perceived more birds, more opportunity, they tend to go back hunting sooner, often even extend the number of days on a particular outing.

If hunters collectively hunt more, they kill more of what's there.
If hunters collectively hunt less, they kill a smaller percentage of what's there.
Just saying, I believe hunters are hunting less so far this spring, and that is a factor in the lower reported kill numbers.

My thinking is the slower than normal dispersal of winter flocks has led to the perception of fewer turkeys.
Again, we do seem to have fewer turkeys, but it may not be as bad as the initial perceptions.

That said, TWRA still needs to get off their laurels and make some changes in the regs.
We don't need a multi-year study to know we need some significant reg changes, and we needed them last year.

 

[poorhunter]

Regarding the correlation of reported harvest to dwindling turkey numbers,
I do not believe the population has "dwindled" as much as the reported harvest (to date).

When hunters perceive less opportunity, on average, they collectively tend to go back hunting less often, and often don't hunt as long or as hard. By contrast, when hunters perceived more birds, more opportunity, they tend to go back hunting sooner, often even extend the number of days on a particular outing.

If hunters collectively hunt more, they kill more of what's there.
If hunters collectively hunt less, they kill a smaller percentage of what's there.
Just saying, I believe hunters are hunting less so far this spring, and that is a factor in the lower reported kill numbers.

My thinking is the slower than normal dispersal of winter flocks has led to the perception of fewer turkeys.
Again, we do seem to have fewer turkeys, but it may not be as bad as the initial perceptions.

That said, TWRA still needs to get off their laurels and make some changes in the regs.
We don't need a multi-year study to know we need some significant reg changes, and we needed them last year.

Yes, but we're not talking about a drop of 10-15 percent from last year (which was considerably lower than the year before), we're looking at a 50% drop in one year. That number screams trouble. Now, at the same time, turkeys are very much able to recover quickly with good hatches and poult survival. Question is, why did the population take such a hit over the past few years? Doesn't seem like TWRA has any idea why. Not blaming them, just sayin.

 

[Spurhunter]

Before the mob mentality burns the TWRA turkey biologist(s) at the stake

TWRA has turkey biologists??? If this is true they all should really look for other careers.




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[Spurhunter]

Just saying, I believe hunters are hunting less so far this spring, and that is a factor in the lower reported kill numbers.

I believe you are 100% incorrect. The weather has been excellent, and there are more and more turkey hunters every year. 20 years ago I didn't know a handful of turkey hunters. Now everyone I know turkey hunts.

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[PalsPal]

My thinking is the slower than normal dispersal of winter flocks has led to the perception of fewer turkeys.
Again, we do seem to have fewer turkeys, but it may not be as bad as the initial perceptions.

B I N G O !!!

Most hunters, myself included, only want to hunt gobbling turkeys. Look at how many people have posted about not hearing anything early, but stuck it out and finally got on one around lunch or so. Most people have already given up and gone to the house by then.

With that said, I do know that the number of birds has declined, and in some areas, drastically. However, I have no faith in the check-in system.

I hesitate to post this, as it will just turn into a TWRA bashing. But, that is not my intention, just what actually happened early last week.

I called the number listed for the wildlife division and told the lady I wanted to speak with someone concerning the harvest numbers being reported with the online system. She didn't know who I should speak with, and transferred me to someone else in a different division. This lady, also, did not know who I should speak with and suggested that I call the Wildlife division. I told her that they sent me to her. She then tried to figure out who might could help me, but I told her that was OK not to bother. They were both very nice, but how can they not know who would have the answers?

 

[PickettSFHunter]

The decline has been happening in my area for many years, not just the last couple.


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[JCDEERMAN]

I don't know, but I can speak about the virtual collapse of the turkey population in my area practically overnight. Fall/winter of 2017.

I have a close friend that is feeling your pain as well over the last two seasons. He leases 2,000 acres of pretty hardwoods, some cutover and some ag fields in SW Hickman county that used to be covered in turkeys, and he could easily hear 2-4 birds gobbling at various locations on his lease, so 8-10 birds at the beginning of season. They would either be on him, or on his neighbors gobbling first week. He hunted the first four days this year, heard 2 birds total, managed to call one of them up, and it was a gobbling jake. Of course, the jake got the pass. It is very disheartening to pay good money for a turkey lease and basically have zero hope after the first four days of season. He plans to give it a whirl again later in the season, but not sure he could shoot the ONLY one he has heard up until now. If you care about next year, and subsequent years, you do not shoot the only one you have gobbling this year.

Yep, my farms are all in very SW Hickman as well. Thankfully I don't have to pay to hunt though! I'm blessed to have friends with land that don't hunt.

Same exact thing we are seeing/hearing in SW Hickman