Hen Discussion.....

[Setterman]

I shot a bearded hen last weekend. Its the only hen I have ever killed. It was kind of a novelty to me. I don't feel bad about it. I might shoot another one if I feel like it or maybe not. Hate on me and I'll shoot em all LoL just out of spite.

I feel the same way lol. Wish half my hens would go somewhere else. Have way too many

It's not possible to have too many hens, and saying that only shows a lack of understanding in turkeys and honestly turkey hunting.

Granted there are folks who generally don't like turkeys and prefer deer. They believe turkeys affect deer adversely so they want the turkeys gone.

Honestly, I can't believe what I just read, it truly blows my mind that mindset. I guess some of remember the days when seeing a turkey was a great day, and killing one truly epic. We weren't fortunate to start hunting after TWRA and others had worked for decades to restore the populations after people with the above mentality wiped out the native turkey flocks.

The new era of hunter, sheesh....

I guess I never learned the old fashioned way. Never had a mentor. I'm not so silly to think that turkeys are hurting my deer hunting. I'd rather eat a turkey 10 to 1. 70-100 turkeys on 150 acres is way too many. I bumped them several times in the fall and the woods just explode with them. Watched 3 hens raise 26 poults last summer and I'm sure I'll see a ton more this year. Every ridge where I hunt is full of sign.

I may not be an elitist like yourself but if it's legal who cares. If killing a legal bird, deer, coon, mountain lion or panther gets your rocks off I'm happy for you. But your I'm greater than thou attitude because you don't like blinds decoys calls or camo is ridiculous. You've done nothing but bash people for legal tactics.

What exactly makes you qualified to determine how many turkeys are too many?

You can get into the name calling if you like and call me an elitist or whatever makes you feel better.

We didn't have mentors, we went to the store bought calls as teenagers and went to the woods. You know what, we got our butts kicked a ton, but slowly we started to figure it out and consistently kill birds. We learned from our mistakes, we learned to kill henned up birds, we learned to kill field birds, basically we learned to turkey hunt. Sure at times it was frustrating and there were seasons were we didn't kill much, and there were times we were ready to throw in the towel. But the way we were raised, we did things the hard way and you earned your success it wasn't given to you on a silver platter.

None of this makes me better than anyone, and it doesn't make others bad hunters etc etc., it's just a completely different outlook on things. And it's not limited to hunting, in fact it's even worse in other areas of our lives.


From your posts and the way you speak your mentality is completely different from what I can gather. Sure you want to learn but you are more concerned with instant success rather than really understanding this stuff. It really bothers you that there are folks like me who fully believe in the approach of a call, shotgun, and tree is the way turkeys are meant to be hunted. You point and call names when we express we don't like new additions to the turkey hunting market like blinds, decoys, etc etc. Remember some of us began when decoys were illegal and learned to hunt without them.



Please go on and continue to accuse me of bashing, elitism, etc etc it makes zero difference to me.

I'm not lookin for instant success. If that was the case u woulda quit hunting 10 years ago. It's not about the kill. If that was the case I wouldn't own a blind call or decoy. I don't even own the decoys I have. I've used them twice this yr and neither time did it make a difference if they were there or not. But I would burn a ton of gas and shoot em out the window. But that ain't my style.

I'm not doubting your ability and I'm not saying you're a bad hunter. The point I'm making is you bash anyone that uses a legal method to take a legal animal if it doesn't fit your style. There's 13000 members here and you'll get 13000 different opinions. But if 13000 people are doing it the legal way what does it matter. I don't understand what's so bad about blinds and decoys in your book. I can see why some don't like using a blind.

This new age hunter you speak of and put down so much with be the death of hunting. It's not about the kill. I've went home way too many more times empty handed than I ever have with something in the back of the truck. I will agree with you on the hunting shows. I don't watch them because how ridiculous they've become.

Just because I don't hunt with decoys or blinds doesn't mean I'm bashing folks who do use them. We've been through this conversation a million times if you need more info go look it up on my views on this stuff. Get over it, some hunters don't like that form of hunting, I happen to be one of them. But just because we don't like that style doesn't mean we are bashing those who do.

Do you need a pat on the back or some thing saying it's okay?

I do not respect hen killing, period and see no purpose in it at all. Legal or not I could care less, end of story.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is automatically good and I have to agree. There are thousands of legal things which I flatly don't agree with.

For example....I have serious issues with abortion, gay marriage, legal pot, and others. According to your worldview I'm supposed to just be alright with those because their "legal".

Apologies, and call me an elitist if it makes you feel better, but just because something is allowed doesn't mean I have to be okay with it.

 

[Jcalder]

I shot a bearded hen last weekend. Its the only hen I have ever killed. It was kind of a novelty to me. I don't feel bad about it. I might shoot another one if I feel like it or maybe not. Hate on me and I'll shoot em all LoL just out of spite.

I feel the same way lol. Wish half my hens would go somewhere else. Have way too many

It's not possible to have too many hens, and saying that only shows a lack of understanding in turkeys and honestly turkey hunting.

Granted there are folks who generally don't like turkeys and prefer deer. They believe turkeys affect deer adversely so they want the turkeys gone.

Honestly, I can't believe what I just read, it truly blows my mind that mindset. I guess some of remember the days when seeing a turkey was a great day, and killing one truly epic. We weren't fortunate to start hunting after TWRA and others had worked for decades to restore the populations after people with the above mentality wiped out the native turkey flocks.

The new era of hunter, sheesh....

I guess I never learned the old fashioned way. Never had a mentor. I'm not so silly to think that turkeys are hurting my deer hunting. I'd rather eat a turkey 10 to 1. 70-100 turkeys on 150 acres is way too many. I bumped them several times in the fall and the woods just explode with them. Watched 3 hens raise 26 poults last summer and I'm sure I'll see a ton more this year. Every ridge where I hunt is full of sign.

I may not be an elitist like yourself but if it's legal who cares. If killing a legal bird, deer, coon, mountain lion or panther gets your rocks off I'm happy for you. But your I'm greater than thou attitude because you don't like blinds decoys calls or camo is ridiculous. You've done nothing but bash people for legal tactics.

What exactly makes you qualified to determine how many turkeys are too many?

You can get into the name calling if you like and call me an elitist or whatever makes you feel better.

We didn't have mentors, we went to the store bought calls as teenagers and went to the woods. You know what, we got our butts kicked a ton, but slowly we started to figure it out and consistently kill birds. We learned from our mistakes, we learned to kill henned up birds, we learned to kill field birds, basically we learned to turkey hunt. Sure at times it was frustrating and there were seasons were we didn't kill much, and there were times we were ready to throw in the towel. But the way we were raised, we did things the hard way and you earned your success it wasn't given to you on a silver platter.

None of this makes me better than anyone, and it doesn't make others bad hunters etc etc., it's just a completely different outlook on things. And it's not limited to hunting, in fact it's even worse in other areas of our lives.


From your posts and the way you speak your mentality is completely different from what I can gather. Sure you want to learn but you are more concerned with instant success rather than really understanding this stuff. It really bothers you that there are folks like me who fully believe in the approach of a call, shotgun, and tree is the way turkeys are meant to be hunted. You point and call names when we express we don't like new additions to the turkey hunting market like blinds, decoys, etc etc. Remember some of us began when decoys were illegal and learned to hunt without them.



Please go on and continue to accuse me of bashing, elitism, etc etc it makes zero difference to me.

I'm not lookin for instant success. If that was the case u woulda quit hunting 10 years ago. It's not about the kill. If that was the case I wouldn't own a blind call or decoy. I don't even own the decoys I have. I've used them twice this yr and neither time did it make a difference if they were there or not. But I would burn a ton of gas and shoot em out the window. But that ain't my style.

I'm not doubting your ability and I'm not saying you're a bad hunter. The point I'm making is you bash anyone that uses a legal method to take a legal animal if it doesn't fit your style. There's 13000 members here and you'll get 13000 different opinions. But if 13000 people are doing it the legal way what does it matter. I don't understand what's so bad about blinds and decoys in your book. I can see why some don't like using a blind.

This new age hunter you speak of and put down so much with be the death of hunting. It's not about the kill. I've went home way too many more times empty handed than I ever have with something in the back of the truck. I will agree with you on the hunting shows. I don't watch them because how ridiculous they've become.

Just because I don't hunt with decoys or blinds doesn't mean I'm bashing folks who do use them. We've been through this conversation a million times if you need more info go look it up on my views on this stuff. Get over it, some hunters don't like that form of hunting, I happen to be one of them. But just because we don't like that style doesn't mean we are bashing those who do.

Do you need a pat on the back or some thing saying it's okay?

I do not respect hen killing, period and see no purpose in it at all. Legal or not I could care less, end of story.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is automatically good and I have to agree. There are thousands of legal things which I flatly don't agree with.

For example....I have serious issues with abortion, gay marriage, legal pot, and others. According to your worldview I'm supposed to just be alright with those because their "legal".

Apologies, and call me an elitist if it makes you feel better, but just because something is allowed doesn't mean I have to be okay with it.

The new generation and the way you bash them is what I have a problem with. And my worldview is nothing like you say lol

 

[Setterman]

I shot a bearded hen last weekend. Its the only hen I have ever killed. It was kind of a novelty to me. I don't feel bad about it. I might shoot another one if I feel like it or maybe not. Hate on me and I'll shoot em all LoL just out of spite.

I feel the same way lol. Wish half my hens would go somewhere else. Have way too many

It's not possible to have too many hens, and saying that only shows a lack of understanding in turkeys and honestly turkey hunting.

Granted there are folks who generally don't like turkeys and prefer deer. They believe turkeys affect deer adversely so they want the turkeys gone.

Honestly, I can't believe what I just read, it truly blows my mind that mindset. I guess some of remember the days when seeing a turkey was a great day, and killing one truly epic. We weren't fortunate to start hunting after TWRA and others had worked for decades to restore the populations after people with the above mentality wiped out the native turkey flocks.

The new era of hunter, sheesh....

I guess I never learned the old fashioned way. Never had a mentor. I'm not so silly to think that turkeys are hurting my deer hunting. I'd rather eat a turkey 10 to 1. 70-100 turkeys on 150 acres is way too many. I bumped them several times in the fall and the woods just explode with them. Watched 3 hens raise 26 poults last summer and I'm sure I'll see a ton more this year. Every ridge where I hunt is full of sign.

I may not be an elitist like yourself but if it's legal who cares. If killing a legal bird, deer, coon, mountain lion or panther gets your rocks off I'm happy for you. But your I'm greater than thou attitude because you don't like blinds decoys calls or camo is ridiculous. You've done nothing but bash people for legal tactics.

What exactly makes you qualified to determine how many turkeys are too many?

You can get into the name calling if you like and call me an elitist or whatever makes you feel better.

We didn't have mentors, we went to the store bought calls as teenagers and went to the woods. You know what, we got our butts kicked a ton, but slowly we started to figure it out and consistently kill birds. We learned from our mistakes, we learned to kill henned up birds, we learned to kill field birds, basically we learned to turkey hunt. Sure at times it was frustrating and there were seasons were we didn't kill much, and there were times we were ready to throw in the towel. But the way we were raised, we did things the hard way and you earned your success it wasn't given to you on a silver platter.

None of this makes me better than anyone, and it doesn't make others bad hunters etc etc., it's just a completely different outlook on things. And it's not limited to hunting, in fact it's even worse in other areas of our lives.


From your posts and the way you speak your mentality is completely different from what I can gather. Sure you want to learn but you are more concerned with instant success rather than really understanding this stuff. It really bothers you that there are folks like me who fully believe in the approach of a call, shotgun, and tree is the way turkeys are meant to be hunted. You point and call names when we express we don't like new additions to the turkey hunting market like blinds, decoys, etc etc. Remember some of us began when decoys were illegal and learned to hunt without them.



Please go on and continue to accuse me of bashing, elitism, etc etc it makes zero difference to me.

I'm not lookin for instant success. If that was the case u woulda quit hunting 10 years ago. It's not about the kill. If that was the case I wouldn't own a blind call or decoy. I don't even own the decoys I have. I've used them twice this yr and neither time did it make a difference if they were there or not. But I would burn a ton of gas and shoot em out the window. But that ain't my style.

I'm not doubting your ability and I'm not saying you're a bad hunter. The point I'm making is you bash anyone that uses a legal method to take a legal animal if it doesn't fit your style. There's 13000 members here and you'll get 13000 different opinions. But if 13000 people are doing it the legal way what does it matter. I don't understand what's so bad about blinds and decoys in your book. I can see why some don't like using a blind.

This new age hunter you speak of and put down so much with be the death of hunting. It's not about the kill. I've went home way too many more times empty handed than I ever have with something in the back of the truck. I will agree with you on the hunting shows. I don't watch them because how ridiculous they've become.

Just because I don't hunt with decoys or blinds doesn't mean I'm bashing folks who do use them. We've been through this conversation a million times if you need more info go look it up on my views on this stuff. Get over it, some hunters don't like that form of hunting, I happen to be one of them. But just because we don't like that style doesn't mean we are bashing those who do.

Do you need a pat on the back or some thing saying it's okay?

I do not respect hen killing, period and see no purpose in it at all. Legal or not I could care less, end of story.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is automatically good and I have to agree. There are thousands of legal things which I flatly don't agree with.

For example....I have serious issues with abortion, gay marriage, legal pot, and others. According to your worldview I'm supposed to just be alright with those because their "legal".

Apologies, and call me an elitist if it makes you feel better, but just because something is allowed doesn't mean I have to be okay with it.

The new generation and the way you bash them is what I have a problem with. And my worldview is nothing like you say lol

Don't know what to say other than I don't like the new mentality that's invaded hunting. I don't think they provide anything of value to sport whatsoever.

And no I'm not referring to the blind decoy hunters.

 

[AT Hiker]

What will make it extinct is all the bickering and judgment between fellow sportsmen, emphasis on sportsmen.

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but if so, you've misread my intentions.

Took me a minute to figure out why you thought I was directing this to you...now I realize the connection with your screen name! Haha, no sir I was not aiming at you...prime example of wrong place at the wrong time.

I was actually talking of people that call themselves sportsman but dont follow the name sake.

 

[AT Hiker]

The jack leg you quoted is absurd to say he would kill them just out of spite, actually I feel his hunting tag should be revoked for life. The animals we pursue are due all the respect we can give them, to blatantly disrespect them is a disgrace to wildlife conservationist worldwide.

Guess you missed my post were I said I was just teasing and explained why I killed it.

I stand corrected then, though joking about these things on a public forum is easily misunderstood.

 

[AT Hiker]

Setterman,

I tend to agree with you on a lot of things but for the life of me I can not understand your relentless comments on the "new era of hunter". What exactly is the old hunter?

The new era in my view is a kill at all cost only concerned with punching a tag and nothing else. They care nothing about the actual hunt and a hunt is only successful if it ends with death. Killing is the only fun thing to them about hunting.

Turn on the outdoor channel most any day and you can see an endless parade of this type.

The old breed and most everyone I know that hunts sees things completely different. Sure we love punching tags and punch a ton each year, but the hunt is as important as the killing if not more.

There's almost no way to describe in words the new era, but it's not hard to spot them or understand the traits I refer to. There is a new generation and on this hen thing many times they view them as a nuisance causing them to not kill the gobbler, therefore they need to die so it makes it easier for them to tag that longbeard. They could just learn how to hunt and deal with henned up birds, but that's too hard, it's easier to take the shortcuts to kill said longbeard.

Face it there's not enough meat on a turkey, especially a hen to make that the sole reason any of us hunts them. Granted they are delicious, I hunt turkeys to play the chess game and deceive a gobbler or the whole flock into coming to me. This is what turkey hunting was and still is where I come from and for the folks I interact with daily. Without the chess game, it's just killing IMO

I see, and I know exactly what your talking about. Its the duck hunter mentality of killing numbers, not quality of hunt.

 

[megalomaniac]

How many undeveloped eggs were in that hen? 3? 4? could you identify 5? (the earliest would be very, very small with no shell)

The way female reproduction in poultry works is that the eggs are in variable stages of development at a given time. The hen will ovulate internally, fertilize the ovum with stored sperm from the gobbler, then begin to form the yolk to feed the embryo. As the fertilized ovum travels down the oviduct to the cloaca, the yolk further develops, and the albumin (the 'white') begins to be deposited around the yolk. Finally, towards the end of the oviduct, the calcium shell is deposited and becomes thicker resulting in a shell strong enough to withstand a few bumps and bruises during laying and setting. One successful copulation is enough to fertilize around 7 eggs, occasionally more, but fertility drops rapidly after 7 days without copulation. The hen will initiate the nest, then continue to lay a single egg daily (a day off here and there, I believe ovulation actually occurs every 26-27 hours and not 24, but I can't remember that for sure in turkeys- may be chickens I'm thinking of) until she reaches her preprogrammed clutch size (usually 12-14). At that point her body temperature will increase slightly, ovulation ceases, and she begins to set. The eggs in the nest were actually fertilized 3-4 days (and the embryos grow inside her) before she starts setting on them, but it then takes an about 27-28 days of setting (incubating) for the embryos to fully develop into poults and hatch. A mature hen (most jennies are incapable of reproduction their first year) will lay eggs regardless whether they are fertilized or not. If they set a clutch of infertile eggs, they usually realize it around day 10-14 and abandon the nest of infertile eggs. Sometimes, they may then mate successfully and reinitiate a new nest, but more often than not, are finished for the season and it'll be a new year for a chance at fertile eggs.

Many people who are 'henned up' late in the season do not realize that the majority of those hens are not actually hens, but jennies. The mature laying hens should have already started setting by the end of the season, yet the gobblers will follow the jennies around like lapdogs hoping they will squat for them. Fortunately for hunters, (and unfortunately for the gobblers) those jennies are easy to call pulling the gobblers right behind them to the gun.

As far as comparing deer populations to turkey populations, herd density, carrying capacity, etc... one simply cannot extrapolate what they know to be true about deer to turkeys. Turkeys reproduction is population independent, and it is nearly impossible to exceed biological carrying capacity of habitat due to their extreme varied diet. In other words, biologically, you CANNOT have too many turkeys. There is just no such thing. Now 'social carrying capacity' is a totally different thing. Sometimes there can be too many turkeys for humans to share the environment with, but the turkeys will be just as healthy if we tripled (or quadrupled) the TN population.

So... what makes a turkey population increase or decrease? Seems like a simple answer, right? The more birds that hatch, the more birds you will have in the future. And it is that simple. But there is a little more to it than just that. Biologists have determined the best time to count new poults for population models is in August (because at this time, most poults are old enough to fly and roost in trees, and therefore mortality drops rapidly thereafter). It turns out that it takes 2.2 poults per hen observed during the August brood surveys just to maintain the population in an UNHUNTED area. Fewer than that number, and the population will be smaller the following year than the year prior, even if no birds are removed by hunters. More than that, and the population can increase (as long as hunter kill doesn't exceed the excess reproduction over 2.2 poults per hen). The problem with much of TN is that we've had hatches that fell right at 2.2 or LESS for the past 10 years. Add on top of that the removal of nearly 35,000 birds in the spring and fall each year. That right there is the reason for the decline in the population.

But the real question is WHY are our hatches so poor? The weather is the primary factor, but there are other factors which may be more at play recently in TN. What if the predator/ scavenger population has exploded and are raiding nests and setting hens? What if gobblers are removed prior to nest initiation and hens are laying infertile eggs? Whatever the reason (and I still think one of the biggest problems is that we are removing gobblers too early from the flock; but that is just a hypothesis), until we get back to brood surveys with 4-5 poults per hen, we won't see a big rebound in turkey numbers. For that reason, I think elimination of hen hunting is most prudent.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

The originally posted picture had 4-5 larger developing eggs and several more which got progressively smaller. I'm going from one look at the picture, but I'm fairly certain there were more than 10 total. I really wish thicket would repost it. I had never seen turkey eggs in the development stage like that.

 

[pass-thru]

I would much rather call in a hen and shoot it, than shoot the biggest gobbler in the woods that's just running in to a gobbler decoy....or God forbid reap anything or shoot from a tent blind.