arctic_cat
Well-Known Member
Mossy Oak said:
same here. backstraps in the freezer
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How many of you guys have actually......
- Thread starter RackRocker
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same here. backstraps in the freezer
Bottom Hunter
Well-Known Member
130 plus.....dead.
i would not shoot an old buck with less than a certain antler score for two reasons......one, I wouldn't eat it and two, I probably wouldn't mount it either.
I would, instead, put the sight on him, go BANG or TWANG, whatever the case may be, and at that point, I won the game without dropping him.
I kill for two reasons, meat or mounts. meats are alwaus does and bucks need to be 130 plus....since I have enough 120 pluses now.
I don't need kills to stroke my ego, didn't fire a shot last season and easily could have....yet I can't shy away from more horn porn on my wall....lol.
jmo
i would not shoot an old buck with less than a certain antler score for two reasons......one, I wouldn't eat it and two, I probably wouldn't mount it either.
I would, instead, put the sight on him, go BANG or TWANG, whatever the case may be, and at that point, I won the game without dropping him.
I kill for two reasons, meat or mounts. meats are alwaus does and bucks need to be 130 plus....since I have enough 120 pluses now.
I don't need kills to stroke my ego, didn't fire a shot last season and easily could have....yet I can't shy away from more horn porn on my wall....lol.
jmo
Mike Belt
Well-Known Member
Define monster. I've seen a few 4 and 6 pointers that were far larger than many of the 8 and 10 pointers I've seen so number of points tells me nothing. I've passed on bookoos of 115'- 120" bucks over the years that were 2.5 years and up. I'm on board with the notion that killing a 4.5+ year old buck is a feat in itself even without the impressive headgear but I'm greedy. I want the entire package. So to answer your question, yes I'd pass on your above mentioned buck if I thought he was 2.5
boweye91
Well-Known Member
I let a 115 inch 3.5 walk last year on my land, which is a definite shooter in my book, if not a "monster", it is a trophy that I would be stocked about. I passed him because I thought he was only 2.5. Trail cam pictures later showed me that he was a 3.5, but at the time I passed him because he was too young in my eyes.
Biggest 2 1/2 I have ever seen on our lease was probably a 100" eight pointer. I could have shot him with the bow numerous times one morning. I even drew back on him once, but he got a pass. Now, in our area - if he was 120" - I'd have a hard time passing him up. But, that is not likely to happen.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I think you might be surprised.pastorbmp said:
In the "ridge & hollow" lands of Middle TN (and with no agricultural crops where I'm talking about), I've seen quite a few 2 1/2's go over 120 ---- and these are the ones that have the most potential to become real "monster bucks" should they live to 4 1/2 or older. Have also seen a few yearling bucks with antlers wider than 15 inches, even though am told we "just don't have the soils, don't have the agriculture to produce good bucks" in this area.
I suspect the improving buck:doe ratios are also improving herd health to the point of allowing young bucks to express more of their antler potential sooner than in times past when we had poorer buck:doe ratios. My concern is this may be a short-lived phenomena in that deer population densities may be soon rising to the point that hunters are either unwilling or unable to kill enough does, causing the overall herd health to rapidly decrease withing the next few years.
Football Hunter
Well-Known Member
Not me,if I see one that meets my "horn size" criteria,dont care how old he is,just me.And I doubt I would shoot a 5.5 year old with a small rack,just not my thing.
BSK
Well-Known Member
This is one of the highest scoring 2 1/2s I've ever photographed on my property. Might push 120.
Beekeeper
Well-Known Member
Good deer BSK.
I have never regretted killing any deer I have killed but two seasons ago I let a 2 1/2 yo that had at least 8 points with a double main beam on one side walk and I have regretted that.
I have never regretted killing any deer I have killed but two seasons ago I let a 2 1/2 yo that had at least 8 points with a double main beam on one side walk and I have regretted that.
Shed Hunter
Well-Known Member
BSK said:This is one of the highest scoring 2 1/2s I've ever photographed on my property. Might push 120.
Was he ever seen again? Like SEC said, If you got another photo it would be interesting to see how much he grew over a year.
BSK
Well-Known Member
SEC said:
He was a one-year-only buck. Did not photograph him the next year. We got quite a few pictures of him during the hunting season that one year, but no one saw him.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
For a variety of reasons, I've found top-end 2 1/2's like the one BSK posted above have had near 0 survival rates in making it thru deer season, at least in most TN areas under a moderate amount of deer hunting. Should one like this survive to 3 1/2, he is typically very heavily and specifically targeted by multiple hunters, with much less chance than most 3 1/2's to survive to 4 1/2.
Among the antlered buck age classes, I'd even argue that a top-end 2 1/2 is an easier mark than even a yearling buck. They tend to roam far and wide, much in daylight, seeming to have a sense of "dominance" (which they may very well have over a majority of the bucks in the area). Many QDM-minded hunters have no problem repeatedly passing up multiple average 2 1/2-yr-old bucks. But let this top-end 2 1/2 come along but once, and he's usually down.
Also common, as the hunter walks up to the downed deer, he immediately sees ground shrinkage. Top-end 2 1/2's will nearly always have lots of "ground shrinkage" since their not yet fully developed skeletal system (typically small body compared to a 3 1/2 or older) makes their antlers appear larger. Put a 110-class rack on a small-bodied buck, and in the absence of an older buck, that 110 may "appear" more like a 130-class on a large-bodied buck. This is part of why many hunters are now focusing so much on age as their primary "shooter buck" criteria, since this can help prevent accidentally killing a top-end 2 1/2 thought to have larger antlers than he had. If the focus is mainly on antlers, you can overlook the fact that the buck is so young, with great potential to become a true "monster" buck.
Among the antlered buck age classes, I'd even argue that a top-end 2 1/2 is an easier mark than even a yearling buck. They tend to roam far and wide, much in daylight, seeming to have a sense of "dominance" (which they may very well have over a majority of the bucks in the area). Many QDM-minded hunters have no problem repeatedly passing up multiple average 2 1/2-yr-old bucks. But let this top-end 2 1/2 come along but once, and he's usually down.
Also common, as the hunter walks up to the downed deer, he immediately sees ground shrinkage. Top-end 2 1/2's will nearly always have lots of "ground shrinkage" since their not yet fully developed skeletal system (typically small body compared to a 3 1/2 or older) makes their antlers appear larger. Put a 110-class rack on a small-bodied buck, and in the absence of an older buck, that 110 may "appear" more like a 130-class on a large-bodied buck. This is part of why many hunters are now focusing so much on age as their primary "shooter buck" criteria, since this can help prevent accidentally killing a top-end 2 1/2 thought to have larger antlers than he had. If the focus is mainly on antlers, you can overlook the fact that the buck is so young, with great potential to become a true "monster" buck.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Should add, I don't have a problem with anyone taking (assuming legal) any buck that's a "trophy" or a "shooter buck" to them, and don't mean to come across as imposing my standards for a "shooter". Each of us may define a "trophy" buck very differently, as well as changing over time.
But am saying that if what you want more are large antlered 3 1/2 and older bucks, the ones that grow the largest antlers at 3 1/2 and older are usually the ones with the largest antlers at 2 1/2. With this mindset, these largest antlered 2 1/2's are the ones to protect most from harvest. Unfortunately in this regard, even in most QDM clubs, they tend to be the most heavily harvested bucks (in part because their antlers will exceed most antler "guidelines" defining a minimal shooter buck).
Needless to say, I believe antler restrictions are often counter-productive from their believed-to-be purpose by the hunters using them. This is particularly the case with the number of antler "points", such as must have "4 on a side", "8 points", and the very worst of all, "9 points". Usually, the largest-antlered yearling bucks become the largest-antlered 2 1/2's, and these best yearlings will usually have "4 on a side" or "8 points". These best yearlings then commonly become top-end 2 1/2's with 9 or 10 antler points. By contrast, if the hunter would simply use an age of 3 1/2 or older to define a shooter, these particular top-end young bucks become more protected from harvest.
Since I'm personal prone to making mistakes, lots of them, I usually use 4 1/2 or older as the first criteria in defining a "shooter buck" for myself. My thinking is that if I misjudge the buck's age, hopefully, he'll still be at least 3 1/2. When I was using 3 1/2 or older, I killed some top-end 2 1/2's that I would have let walk if had known they were 2 1/2.
But am saying that if what you want more are large antlered 3 1/2 and older bucks, the ones that grow the largest antlers at 3 1/2 and older are usually the ones with the largest antlers at 2 1/2. With this mindset, these largest antlered 2 1/2's are the ones to protect most from harvest. Unfortunately in this regard, even in most QDM clubs, they tend to be the most heavily harvested bucks (in part because their antlers will exceed most antler "guidelines" defining a minimal shooter buck).
Needless to say, I believe antler restrictions are often counter-productive from their believed-to-be purpose by the hunters using them. This is particularly the case with the number of antler "points", such as must have "4 on a side", "8 points", and the very worst of all, "9 points". Usually, the largest-antlered yearling bucks become the largest-antlered 2 1/2's, and these best yearlings will usually have "4 on a side" or "8 points". These best yearlings then commonly become top-end 2 1/2's with 9 or 10 antler points. By contrast, if the hunter would simply use an age of 3 1/2 or older to define a shooter, these particular top-end young bucks become more protected from harvest.
Since I'm personal prone to making mistakes, lots of them, I usually use 4 1/2 or older as the first criteria in defining a "shooter buck" for myself. My thinking is that if I misjudge the buck's age, hopefully, he'll still be at least 3 1/2. When I was using 3 1/2 or older, I killed some top-end 2 1/2's that I would have let walk if had known they were 2 1/2.
bow-hunter
Well-Known Member
I will pass regardless of the rack size if I think he is 2.5. Although I have never seen a 2.5 yr old 12 point in my area. The best 2.5 I have seen is 8,9, & 10 points that would go 115-120. Them are defiantly the ones to let go though.
BowGuy84
Well-Known Member
I passed this buck 2 years ago at 70 yards with a rifle.
Year before I passed another 2.5 110-115 deer.
I also passed a 3.5 110 this year on our land this year. For mid october he just wasn't big enough for my tag. A few days before I let a deer I now believe to be PY 10 go on public land thinking he was either 2.5 or 115. I know think it was early and he hadn't swelled yet (Oct. 21 I think). The buck I eventually shot I thought was 125 and turned out to be mid 140s...gotta work on my scoring from a treestand.
So in total over the past 3 seasons we have let 2 2.5 110+ deer go, 2 110+ 3.5 and about 6 less than 90" 2.5.
I've also let 4 115" deer go on public land...one I believe was bigger and now wish I would have shot.
Yes I will let a young deer in the sub 125 range go.
In my experience most people thing 110-115 is acually PY (125) and the separation gets even worse the bigger the deer get. I tend to make mistakes thinking deer are smaller than they are.
Year before I passed another 2.5 110-115 deer.
I also passed a 3.5 110 this year on our land this year. For mid october he just wasn't big enough for my tag. A few days before I let a deer I now believe to be PY 10 go on public land thinking he was either 2.5 or 115. I know think it was early and he hadn't swelled yet (Oct. 21 I think). The buck I eventually shot I thought was 125 and turned out to be mid 140s...gotta work on my scoring from a treestand.
So in total over the past 3 seasons we have let 2 2.5 110+ deer go, 2 110+ 3.5 and about 6 less than 90" 2.5.
I've also let 4 115" deer go on public land...one I believe was bigger and now wish I would have shot.
Yes I will let a young deer in the sub 125 range go.
In my experience most people thing 110-115 is acually PY (125) and the separation gets even worse the bigger the deer get. I tend to make mistakes thinking deer are smaller than they are.
BowGuy84
Well-Known Member
Side note: Took me awhile to get to the point of passing 115" deer. My first 2 years in KY I killed one in this range. One was at least 3.5 and I'm very happy with him.
The following year, I killed this buck that I believe was 2.5 off our land (scores 111"). Since then I've been very careful on 2.5s and feel that in KY if you hunt a fair amount a 115 is doable every year...so I elevated my standards a little.
The following year, I killed this buck that I believe was 2.5 off our land (scores 111"). Since then I've been very careful on 2.5s and feel that in KY if you hunt a fair amount a 115 is doable every year...so I elevated my standards a little.
Guilty as charged. :grin:RackRocker said:
This is about the EXACT view I had (except skyline/treeline in background) when this guy walked out on me in some thick undergrowth. I was sitting on a stool ground hunting that morning. This exact view at 15 yards, no body to look at for reference (blocked by weeds, grasses, shrubs, etc), him walking parallel but quartering away from me and a five second window of opportunity resulted in me shooting this very top end 2.5 year old. Only way I can explain it is my instinct prevailed as I was trying to digest it all and convince myself that I was making the right choice.
Note the "doe neck" on him. He field dressed 108 lbs WITH his antlers attached.
Note enamel wider than dentine (enamel basically touching for the most part)
Permanent "2-cusp" tooth still emerging (indicates he was a young 2.5)
Shot was about 15-20 yards as I was sitting on my stool. As I said, I could only see his neck, head and rack, undergrowth had everything else blocked. I have often wondered if that morning would have turned out different if I had been jacked up a tree 25' with a good view. It could have went two ways: 1) I could have seen his above average rack on his 100 lbs body, thus making his rack "appear" even bigger than it really is, and in turn shooting during the split second you typically get because I had over judged him based on his rack to body size ratio, or 2) if I were a little better hunter, just studied his body characteristics (should be rule #1 in QDM, but it is easier said than done) and possibly let him pass. I have discussed the "what if" scenarios of that morning a million times with my closest hunting buds. I'll conclude by saying I seriously doubt I would have let him walk no matter what the circumstances would have been, mainly because in the heat of the moment your instinct takes over and voila, the deed is done, or isn't (you let the deer walk).
Cannot say I have. FWIW, I have not seen that many monsters in my 19 years of deer hunting.RackRocker said:
I agree. One will never truly know for certain how he or she will handle a particular situation until he or she is put in that exact situation. To further complicate things, if one faces a similar situation repeatedly over a period of time, the outcome of each unique situation may vary depending on all of the "other factors" that go along with each unique situation. Other factors could be time of year the situation was encountered (opening day versus to last day), success or failure rate before encountering the situation (having a good/bad year), uncertainty of future (will I still be hunting this land next year, or the next), among other things. My point is one should not be so quick to proudly say how he or she will handle a unique situation unless he or she has encountered that situation many times over and reacted in a similar manner with similar overall outcomes. Until this happens, my answer will most likely be "it depends."RackRocker said:
Trail cam picture I got of the young'un a week or so before I killed him. I did not check the camera and realize I had this picture until AFTER I had shot him. Cameras were taking a back seat to me hunting, so I was running behind so to speak. Needless to say, it was a pleasant surprise when I came across this pic two weeks after I killed him.
