Is Your County This Bad?

[rem270]

It's interesting so many counties, such as Weakley & Obion, are counties late to have huntable turkey populations. Many these counties seem "ok" at present.

I used to do a lot of quail hunting in Weakley & Obion county when both had lots of quail, but zero turkey. Had to travel farther east to go turkey hunting. But today, quail are near extinction in those same two counties, while the turkeys seem to be doing ok.

Where I hunt in Obion up until 12 years or so ago we had 0 turkeys whatsoever. The place I hunt I deer hunted from about 1995 until about 2007 and never seen the first turkey. I lost permission to deer hunt it in 2007 then about 2010ish started seeing turkeys around the surrounding properties. Not many then but they kept getting more and more. I gained permission to turkey hunt the same place 3 years ago and was able to hunt just 3 days since I lived out of town and killed 2. Then one last year and 2 this year. Each year there were at least 4-5 gobblers in there when I was hunting and lots of hens. I'm hoping they keep staying in there but I'm always cautious and try to go off sight and sound of how many are in the area and that determines how many I will kill off a property if given the chance.

 

[LA man]

I live in van buren county, I haven't seen a gobbler in 7 years at my place. Years ago I would see hundreds of birds and now I'm lucky to see a single hen

 

[FTP]

Me.

We need to take some major steps,
but not destroy the sport with unreasonable shut-downs.
That's how the government destroyed our economy.

So you really believe that closing the season for just a year would destroy turkey hunting in the state? Wow. I can't possibly envision how the turkey population would not be better off after a sabbatical for one year.

 

[TheLBLman]

Where I hunt in Obion up until 12 years or so ago we had 0 turkeys whatsoever.

And it's counties like this, and portions of counties, they are making up a significant percentage of today's turkey harvests. Meanwhile, the counties, and portions of counties, where turkeys had been decades longer established, they have experienced steadily declining populations.
I rest my case.

 

[TheLBLman]

So you really believe that closing the season for just a year would destroy turkey hunting in the state? Wow. I can't possibly envision how the turkey population would not be better off after a sabbatical for one year.

No, it would not destroy turkey hunting in our state.
But completely eliminating the turkey season would unnecessarily destroy the opportunity of everyone in our state to turkey hunt who is unable or unwilling to travel to some non-resident state for turkey hunting.

No reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

To what extent you think closing the entire season would be effective in saving turkeys,
opening the season only a week or two later would likely do 50% as much "saving" (and enhancing nesting success) WITHOUT destroying the opportunity for residents to keep enjoying the turkey hunting. This would mainly just reduce non-resident turkey hunting in TN.

 

[rem270]

And it's counties like this, and portions of counties, they are making up a significant percentage of today's turkey harvests. Meanwhile, the counties, and portions of counties, where turkeys had been decades longer established, they have experienced steadily declining populations.
I rest my case.

Wonder what the main reason that that is? Pressure drives then away slowly over the years? Yes I know turkey numbers are down but I've seen the same you're talking about with places that used to be loaded are scarce. I know predators kill a bunch but for people to see 0 at places do you think pressure from over hunted places have drove them to other places ?

 

[FTP]

No, it would not destroy turkey hunting in our state.
But completely eliminating the turkey season would unnecessarily destroy the opportunity of everyone in our state to turkey hunt who is unable or unwilling to travel to some non-resident state for turkey hunting.

No reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

To what extent you think closing the entire season would be effective in saving turkeys,
opening the season only a week or two later would likely do 50% as much "saving" (and enhancing nesting success) WITHOUT destroying the opportunity for residents to keep enjoying the turkey hunting. This would mainly just reduce non-resident turkey hunting in TN.

So you would have to go a year without getting to turkey hunt. Is that too much to ask for something you love? Make you appreciate it more.

 

[TheLBLman]

So you would have to go a year without getting to turkey hunt. Is that too much to ask for something you love? Make you appreciate it more.

Just unnecessary.
Before a 6-week-long season with a 3-bird limit, greatly exploited by non-resident turkey killers, should be completely cancelled,
how about just opening it a week or two later instead?
Maybe reduce that 3-bird limit to a 2-bird limit?

 

[TheLBLman]

Wonder what the main reason that that is? Pressure drives then away slowly over the years? Yes I know turkey numbers are down but I've seen the same you're talking about with places that used to be loaded are scarce. I know predators kill a bunch but for people to see 0 at places do you think pressure from over hunted places have drove them to other places ?

Rem270, I honestly don't know that there is a "main" reason.
It's a multitude of factors.
In certain areas, some are more significant than others.

What's going on with the turkey populations is remarkably comparable to what has happened quicker with the quail. In both cases, and in most places, hunting hasn't been the main reason for these declines.

In the area of Stewart County where I killed my first wild turkey back in the 1980's, the amount contiguous wooded acreage is little changed (thousands of contiguous wooded acres). In fact, by all we're told by the turkey experts, it is now better turkey habitat than it was 35 years ago. But we had more turkeys there in the late 80's and thru the 1990's than we do now. Also in this location, human hunting was not a main factor in the decline. Not sure if there has been a "main" factor, but biggest single one I can see is raptor predation.

Coyotes are but one of many factors, and I don't think they're even close to a "main" factor. I'd like to get shed of every one of them, but doubt it would make much difference with the turkeys. In fact, getting rid of all the coyotes might cause an explosion in the bobcat population, resulting in even greater harm to the turkey population.

 

[Wrangler95]

Just unnecessary.
Before a 6-week-long season with a 3-bird limit, greatly exploited by non-resident turkey killers, should be completely cancelled,
how about just opening it a week or two later instead?
Maybe reduce that 3-bird limit to a 2-bird limit?

Yes,that would be something that can be done now and should be done to hopefully save the turkeys in counties like mine(Clay).We will see if they care anything about the turkey when they set the season,some counties like mine can't wait for a 6 or 7 year study to take place.

 

[Planking]

I think opening up the trapping would be a move that wouldn't hurt. There's several that could be added to the year around list.

 

[megalomaniac]

From a biological standpoint, there is no reason NOT to remove adult toms after breeding has taken place (as long as jakes are spared to do the breeding the following year). The problem in TN (and in MS) is we are killing over half the adult toms in the first 9 days of the season, well before peak breeding.

Once populations become almost unhuntable, TN could still have a 2 week season May 1 thru 14th without impacting reproduction significantly (again, as long as jakes are off limits). I'd much rather see that than completely close the season altogether.

 

[deerfever]

So you would have to go a year without getting to turkey hunt. Is that too much to ask for something you love? Make you appreciate it more.

I am getting so old the Lord may not give me next season to hunt much less shut it down. TN is in nowhere near bad enough shape to shut down a whole season. They want to tweek the dates some that is fine by me, shut it down absolutely not. Turkey in my area have not dropped off at all but actually seem to be expanding. Keep in mind I am not one that will say I used to hear multiple birds per morning, however turkeys are now in places they were not 10/15 years ago. It's very strange to me it almost seems like a cycle with areas that had lots of birds dropping off and others that weren't as good actually getting better.

 

[mike243]

Laying a egg a day i dont think a week difference is going to make a lot of difference, there is something going on and it's not just in Tn it looks like

 

[Joe2Kool]

Interesting comment about failure of hunters to report kills. Which isn't hunting, it's poaching. Anyway, when did the online check in system in TN start?

 

[PWoody]

I see the following:
1) Agree 100% that while some TN counties have been decimated, others are still gaining birds, like where I live in east TN. Makes a one size fits all solution impossible.
2) While TWRA has done an admirable job in most cases with wildlife, they have failed with turkey…primarily in communication. I think they care and are competent. What they haven't done is explain their plan. What they think now, what they are trying to figure out, and how they are doing it, with updates as appropriate.
3) As for what's wrong, your guess is as good as mine. All arguments and causes make sense; none seem to be the smoking gun.

 

[arkwaterfowler]

They pay no attention to turkey hunters,we know more about the turkey situation than they do but it falls on deaf ears.At least most states in the southeast are lowering limits and starting the opener a week or so later so most hens have a chance to bred.I now have a bad opinion of the TWRA because they are doing nothing!

Complain complain complain. do you want TWRA to just do something or do you want them to figure out the problem? Determining a problem takes study and time. Rash actions don't create desired results. Why would an agency that brought the wild turkey back want to sit and watch its decline? Get involved or hush.

 

[Wrangler95]

You obvisously dont live in a county that is suffering the fate of Clay county and many other counties in Tennessee.You have it good in Williamson county.Things can be done immediatly to save the turkey's in these hard hit counties,push opener back two weeks,lower the limit to 1 turkey,we will see what is done when the seasons and limits are set this summer!Clay county and the many other counties that have lost most of their turkey's cant wait for a 6 or 7 year study to be done!!

 

[Wrangler95]

Don't know if this apply's or not but in my county I noticed when the racoon hunter's all quit coon hunting that is when the turkey population started going down hill.It's kinda like your checking account at the bank,you keep writing checks and never putting money back in you will soon go broke!In my county you hardly ever see poult's with hens!

 

[TheLBLman]

You obvisously dont live in a county that is suffering the fate of Clay county and many other counties in Tennessee.You have it good in Williamson county.Things can be done immediatly to save the turkey's in these hard hit counties,push opener back two weeks,lower the limit to 1 turkey,we will see what is done when the seasons and limits are set this summer!Clay county and the many other counties that have lost most of their turkey's cant wait for a 6 or 7 year study to be done!!

Good points, but . . . . . .

Our hunting regulations are but one of the many factors that have gone against turkeys thriving in many TN counties. In fact, our hunting regulations may be very secondary to many other factors TWRA cannot control.

Ongoing, the single biggest factor may be how weather effects annual nesting success. This usually works out ok over time, but I believe more consideration should be given to subsequent seasons following years of poor nesting success (with tweaks in the hunting regs happening more often).

Another factor, quite possibly the biggest single factor going against turkeys thriving, is raptor predation. It literally seems to be the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. These are birds such as owls, hawks, and eagles given federal protection. TWRA can do nothing about this, and raptor numbers not only continue to increase, but their hunting behavior appears to be evolving, particularly with the bald eagles.

And, these raptors hunt year round, killing far more turkeys annually than us human hunters.
Yes, coyotes also kill some turkeys, but I do not believe they're as big a factor as most seem to think. And, if we killed every coyote that lives, raptor predation would likely just increase even faster.

Turkey hunting regulations are very important. And just because we cannot do anything about some other factors is no reason not to do what we can to help. But turkey hunting regulations remain just one of the factors.