KY harvest has surpassed TN harvest

[catman529]

The 2 bird limit I hunt in KY is fine and really works on the places I hunt. There's no way we'd have the amazing mornings we do if all of us were killing 4 each year

The biggest advantage to the 2 bird limit is it reduces jake harvests because tags are precious. With 4 tags jakes are fair game as many hunters feel they'll never fulfill all their allotment.

Also for the poaching types that don't stop at 4 and push towards 6 birds here now, they're more likely to push it to 4 if the limit was 2. most won't go past doubling their limit in my experience

Something has to be changed between now and next spring. There's no choice now

poachers are poachers. I used to work with a guy who told me maybe 3 years ago, that two guys he knows went out on opening morning and between the 2 of them killed 8 toms out of one flock. Makes me sick to think of.


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[Roost 1]

As a side note KY now has expanded their lead to over 2000 birds on TN. Good news is maybe with an extra week we can catch up. It's sad, just freaking sad what has been allowed to happen in this state.

I wouldn't read too much into the jump of KY harvest this last weekend. I know several guys who were out hunting and NONE of them got even close to killing a bird...However all the ones who buy into the philosophy that,"a good turkey hunter always has an open tag' just filled their 2nd one because it was the last day....Hopefully you can read between the lines...I am sure TN will have a spike in their harvest this coming weekend since its the last day....these guys will no longer have a need for that extra tag........I would also say TN harvest totals are down due to the ridiculous tagging system that has been implemented the last couple years...However I get what yall are saying about birds not being there like in years past...its the same in my neck of the woods here in west KY.....Since the 2nd week of our season I have known where 1 gobbler was hanging out...I hope he made it, he was the last of the Mohicans!!!!

 

[scn]

The 2 bird limit I hunt in KY is fine and really works on the places I hunt. There's no way we'd have the amazing mornings we do if all of us were killing 4 each year

The biggest advantage to the 2 bird limit is it reduces jake harvests because tags are precious. With 4 tags jakes are fair game as many hunters feel they'll never fulfill all their allotment.

Also for the poaching types that don't stop at 4 and push towards 6 birds here now, they're more likely to push it to 4 if the limit was 2. most won't go past doubling their limit in my experience

Something has to be changed between now and next spring. There's no choice now

IMO, nothing will be done on some restrictions unless it comes from the Tennessee Fish and Wildlife Commission. TWRA recommended no changes in the current season format for the 2015-16 hunting seasons. I think they are content to see it go off the cliff before trying to react when it is already too late.

If you are as concerned as I am about the turkey flock in TN, you really need to be in contact with as many Commissioners as possible between now and May 21 when they meet to set the seasons. Complaining on various forums will do nothing to get a change in the seasons. There is contact information in at least two different threads in the Serious deer forum and on the TWRA website.

My experience from over the years is that the Commission does listen to concerted input from user groups when it is given in a professional manner. Anti-TWRA rhetoric is normally counterproductive. State the facts and reasons behind your request for change. If they receive enough input, they perhaps will not rubberstamp the agency's recommendation. I have watched bear hunters be successful in modifying seasons for over 25 years with that approach.

Beyond an email or a call, I'd suggest packing the TFWC meeting on the 21st. You will be given an opportunity to address the Commission on your concerns. You do not have to be a polished public speaker to get your point across. A short recitation of your facts/reasons will go a long way in letting the Commission know that the concern for the turkey hunting in this state is real and goes beyond one or two people. Again, anti-TWRA attacks at the podium will, IMO, be counterproductive.

The bottom line is that if people don't make some efforts to let the commission know of their concerns in the next few days, we will have the exact same season (with the date changes) as we have had this year. If that suits you, then sit back and let it happen. If you are concerned like I am, you need to get busy. After these seasons are set, it will be almost impossible to get them changed until this time next year. I, personally, don't think we need another year of the current pressure as our flock nears the edge of the cliff.

 

[woodsman87]

For those of you that push for a two bird limit, how many of you hunt or are able to hunt several states each spring? Call me greedy, don't care, but if was limited to only two birds each spring I would fall apart. I would do it to help the resource but it would be tough on me.
Thankfully I hunt some in Alabama, and I am normally helping other people kill turkeys too.

I am addicted to hunting and shooting turkeys, but I also want to be able to put back and help turkeys more so than I take them.

I am just saying if ALL I had to hunt was a 2 bird limit in Tennessee, it would drive me insane, and I would have to move elsewhere.

What I mean by all of this, if we were to drop it down to two birds, I wonder how many people would quit doing habitat improvements for turkeys, because that isn't enough bang for their buck? That could lead to even more decline because the average joes wouldn't do their part to help manage for turkeys. Myself will always try to help them out, no matter the limit.
But what if the limit was five? Then lots of sportsmen would do lots of habitat work to increase numbers. If everybody would create better nesting and brooding habitat we would be so much better off. With low limits, the deer hunter first, turkey hunter second people would let turkeys go the wayside.

My philosophy may be backwards to yall, but it makes sense to me.

I don't compare deer and turkey management at all, but just think if every hunter took care of turkeys like they do deer. Still may not be as good because all of the predators and weather that gets poults, but it would be better than it was.

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[Boll Weevil]

If everybody would create better nesting and brooding habitat we would be so much better off.

Agree 100%.

While I understand that everyone doesn't own property and/or have the resources required to assist their local flock through habitat improvement, it still surprises me how few people do anything to help the birds. Limits, season length, start/end date are all part of the equation but so is predator control, good nesting/bugging areas, and adequate winter food sources. The State has a responsibility to help manage some aspects of a healthy population but I feel very strongly that we also have a role.

Several of us on here have been putting these practices to the test and I for one, will tell you the effort pays off. There will be costs (way more time than money), progress is slow, you'll sweat your tail off, have busted knuckles, and some seriously sore muscles. On properties where you are able, start NOW while you still have a "seed flock" to work with and don't wait for the situation to get more dire. There are numerous online resources for guidance and I (or I'm sure others who decided to try and encourage a comeback) will be happy to help along the way.

There's a saying in business, "You can't save yourself to profitability." Cost cutting may help to some extent, but a company still has to make more than it spends to become profitable. All this talk of lower limits and shorter seasons is one thing but if you want more birds to hunt, create a turkey factory that sustains or (hopefully) grows the population.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

I agree that proper management would solve 90% of the population problems. Boll Weevil, your posts alone have inspired me to do what I can in my area and I havent got started good yet. I've done a little but not a lot yet.

I do know I haven't gotten a nest raider on cam since January.

The biggest problem with the management prospective is, once turkey season ends 99.999% of people never think about turkeys again until February, therefore they don't care about habitat.

My hunting partner loves to turkey hunt as much as I do, but I can't persuade him to work on anything turkey related as long as it's nice enough weather to fish.

People put so much time into hunting and then forget it as long as season isn't open and it doesn't make since to me.

I think the state could do some sort of incentive to make trapping and management worthwhile but they wont.

 

[Boll Weevil]

People put so much time into hunting and then forget it as long as season isn't open and it doesn't make since to me.

Just blows my mind. On this site alone, take a look at the number of "Where have all the turkeys gone?" topics and posts. There's more chatter about this single topic than just about anything else...from one end of the state to the other.

I encourage people to start somewhere (ANYWHERE!) but start...develop a plan and go from there:
1) If you've got the ground and/or permission call a few friends, fire up your chainsaws, start dropping cedars, and leavin'em where they fall yields instant benefit for both nesting hens and brooding when little grasses/forbs pop up because they're no longer shaded out.
2) Get a couple of kill traps (they aren't expensive) and run'em this winter in places you've seen coons, skunks, possums, armadillos etc. You don't have to make a job of it just run a few and you'll be surprised how many you catch.
4) Pick a few little openings to either burn or if you have the equipment lightly disc this summer; no need to plant anything as Ma Nature will take care of the rest.

Even though you're possibly already doing it for deer don't think you have to plow tons of money in to equipment, lime, seed, fertilizer, and fuel to help the birds. Manipulate habitat to become a baby turkey factory and give it a few years. The greatest "drawback" is I now have to out-compete so many dang hens every spring but that's a tradeoff I'll gladly accept.

 

[Bone Collector]

Bone collector, if you don't have time to drive the next county over, how can you say for certain middle Tn is fine and nothing should be done? On your readyville property, what was your population 15 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 2 years ago?

I bought the property in 2012, so I don't know what the population was before that. I have consistently seen between 20-30 birds on a regular basis since then. I hunt them and a farm over hunts them. I am talking from the standpoint of driving around on my side of town (Blackman area). I see flocks of 50+ in more than one area.

I drive down hwy 96 into Franklin every day and see tons of turkeys. I have friends and family in Wilson Co and see plenty there too.

I also hunt Priest and have seen about the same amount as normal. I should be tagged out, but screwed up twice and lost opportunities. the last one on Priest, I called and had a bird gobbling and strutting. he went quiet and I thought he had left. I eased out from my hiding spot and he and 4 other toms (I didn't realize were there) were 60 yds out. They all flew away.

 

[Spurhunter]

I would also say TN harvest totals are down due to the ridiculous tagging system that has been implemented the last couple years...

The tagging or lack there of is a problem. I hear guys say "I throw them in the truck and head home to tag them later, but usually forget to." In Missouri you get 2 tags printed out when you buy your license. You punch the day like we used to, then check it in online. I think we should get tags and if you are caught with an untagged bird or hunting without a valid tag it's a $1000 fine and a 3 year suspension of hunting and fishing privledges. That would stop 90% of the nonsense.

 

[woodsman87]

I would also say TN harvest totals are down due to the ridiculous tagging system that has been implemented the last couple years...

The tagging or lack there of is a problem. I hear guys say "I throw them in the truck and head home to tag them later, but usually forget to." In Missouri you get 2 tags printed out when you buy your license. You punch the day like we used to, then check it in online. I think we should get tags and if you are caught with an untagged bird or hunting without a valid tag it's a $1000 fine and a 3 year suspension of hunting and fishing privledges. That would stop 90% of the nonsense.

I agree. Retarded decision to make it like it is now. Yes it is easier, and yes I use it, but it is so easy for a guy to put an animal in the truck and never tag it. Bad decision, but I do not believe it is effecting our population.

If anything, the kill numbers may be skewed, people are just not tagging them.







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[MickThompson]

I think the state could do some sort of incentive to make trapping and management worthwhile but they wont.

The state does- there are 4 private lands biologists that cover the state- they are available (you may have to wait a while) to help you develop a plan to improve the deer, turkey, wombat, etc etc habitat on your farm. The state also has a small pot of money available to use on these projects. The USDA swings the big hammer money-wise though. CRP and EQIP programs are available to landowners and offer cost share assistance to put habitat on the ground. Each county gets an allotment from NRCS, and there are state allotments as well for forestry, wildlife, crop, etc. They will help you develop a plan, and do all they can to make sure your project has the best chance of getting funded.

As far as trapping is concerned, that's on your own. Bounties have been tried and failed. Bounties incentivize someone to almost trap out the offending spp, and incentivize dishonest people to bring kills from outside the bounty area for payment. How would you feel about a MO trapper bringing his coyotes to TN for payment? What benefit has that yielded to the wildlife and sportsmen of TN?

I'll say this- if I could change 1 aspect of farm/lands management, it would be recreational mowing, especially during nesting/brooding season. How many farmers/landowners bushhog for the sake of running the tractor? How many acres are cut for hay and the hay goes unused? We destroy acres upon acres of brood cover, nests, hens, and broods for no good reason and then scratch our heads and wonder where all our turkeys went.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Well duh I guess I had a brain fart while I was posting, we just had 40,000 pines planted through the state. That should be some good nesting habitat.

I'm just beginning to start on my 85 acres and improving on my dad's property (200)

 

[Setterman]

I'll say this- if I could change 1 aspect of farm/lands management, it would be recreational mowing, especially during nesting/brooding season. How many farmers/landowners bushhog for the sake of running the tractor? How many acres are cut for hay and the hay goes unused? We destroy acres upon acres of brood cover, nests, hens, and broods for no good reason and then scratch our heads and wonder where all our turkeys went.

This is something that is never talked about enough IMO, but around here in the valley the timing of the first hay cutting usually coincides with the peak of hens sitting on their nest full time. It is common to walk through a freshly cut hayfield and see upwards of a half a dozen hens mulched by the mowers. Naturally their poults never hatch etc.

Again, this goes back to TWRA educating farmers, of which they've done nothing to try and address these issues. On the same note, the NWTF has done nothing to address this either, but I wouldn't expect anything more from a horrible organization more interested in banquets then actually helping turkeys of late.

I've wondered for a long time if there is not a cost share or CRP type program we could implement to eliminate the senseless loss of nests and hens during this period.

 

[Buckhunter10]

Setterman, there is a great program that they were doing a few years back. I would have to look and see if they are still running it. I worked for TWRA for a summer doing habitat counts. The program was the CP33 program. Essentially it paid land owners to put habitat buffers of warm season grasses around the edges of their fields. These were anywhere from 15 yards plus wide strips around the edges of the field. It is a designed program for increasing upland bird numbers but I witnessed first hand many turkeys come strolling out of these buffers during June when we counted. In the past it was incentive based and land owners were paid, I would assume if the program is still around it would be the same. It was really a win win for everyone. The farmers got to keep their fields of row crop but the land owners could increase their native habitat for wildlife.

 

[deerchaser007]

Part of my territory is Woidbury, Smithville etc. 10 years ago I loved traveling over there each spring just to see all the turkeys out in fields. In the last few years the same fields that were full are now empty.

As a side note KY now has expanded their lead to over 2000 birds on TN. Good news is maybe with an extra week we can catch up. It's sad, just freaking sad what has been allowed to happen in this state.

If you ever make it back up this way give me holler, we will have a burger at joe's or somewere.
And yes, it is freaking sad! I can't help catch it up, on my farm there is zero scratching and zero dusting in the spots they have done it since I bought the property, and its dry as a popcorn fart, so that would be heavily noticed, I've backed out there totally. I've got some gobbling toms around my other property I hunt, but they stay in neighbors bottom field and I ain't been able to bring them out this year. SO, I feel this year will be the first year in I don't know how long I go birdless for the spring.

 

[callemquacktn]

I'll say this- if I could change 1 aspect of farm/lands management, it would be recreational mowing, especially during nesting/brooding season. How many farmers/landowners bushhog for the sake of running the tractor? How many acres are cut for hay and the hay goes unused? We destroy acres upon acres of brood cover, nests, hens, and broods for no good reason and then scratch our heads and wonder where all our turkeys went.

This is something that is never talked about enough IMO, but around here in the valley the timing of the first hay cutting usually coincides with the peak of hens sitting on their nest full time. It is common to walk through a freshly cut hayfield and see upwards of a half a dozen hens mulched by the mowers. Naturally their poults never hatch etc.

Again, this goes back to TWRA educating farmers, of which they've done nothing to try and address these issues. On the same note, the NWTF has done nothing to address this either, but I wouldn't expect anything more from a horrible organization more interested in banquets then actually helping turkeys of late.

I've wondered for a long time if there is not a cost share or CRP type program we could implement to eliminate the senseless loss of nests and hens during this period.

As a farmer you don't have the luxury of just cutting when ever you want. You are at the mercy of the weather. If we don't start cutting the first chance we get then we might miss out on a whole cutting of fields which might make us short for the winter, which will make us have to buy hay which cuts into our profit.
Now on bushhoging I agree. We try to wait as long as possible

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

I think they are really talking about the difference in actual farmers and guys that like to play farmer.

People that roll hay that ends up rotting in the field

 

[woodsman87]

No farmer here, but I think there is also a certain time frame where the grass to be used for hay is at its peak for nutrition, which is sadly for turkeys about right now.

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[woodsman87]

But them people that bush hog during May and June drive me up the wall.
I told a guy about all the hens, nest, and fawns he would probably cut up. He cut it because he said it was an eye sore.

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[MickThompson]

But them people that bush hog during May and June drive me up the wall.
I told a guy about all the hens, nest, and fawns he would probably cut up. He cut it because he said it was an eye sore.

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Yes, this is the recreational mowing I was referring to.