KY harvest has surpassed TN harvest

[Bone Collector]

I think the state could do some sort of incentive to make trapping and management worthwhile but they wont.

The state does- there are 4 private lands biologists that cover the state- they are available (you may have to wait a while) to help you develop a plan to improve the deer, turkey, wombat, etc etc habitat on your farm. The state also has a small pot of money available to use on these projects. The USDA swings the big hammer money-wise though. CRP and EQIP programs are available to landowners and offer cost share assistance to put habitat on the ground. Each county gets an allotment from NRCS, and there are state allotments as well for forestry, wildlife, crop, etc. They will help you develop a plan, and do all they can to make sure your project has the best chance of getting funded.

As far as trapping is concerned, that's on your own. Bounties have been tried and failed. Bounties incentivize someone to almost trap out the offending spp, and incentivize dishonest people to bring kills from outside the bounty area for payment. How would you feel about a MO trapper bringing his coyotes to TN for payment? What benefit has that yielded to the wildlife and sportsmen of TN?

I'll say this- if I could change 1 aspect of farm/lands management, it would be recreational mowing, especially during nesting/brooding season. How many farmers/landowners bushhog for the sake of running the tractor? How many acres are cut for hay and the hay goes unused? We destroy acres upon acres of brood cover, nests, hens, and broods for no good reason and then scratch our heads and wonder where all our turkeys went.

There are two things in Mick's post I was thinking about on the way to work.

1. They do need to do something to about nest predators. I think right now, you can kill, skunk, possum, and armadillos year round, but I don't think you can kill raccoons year round. This is really on the land owner and I don't agree with bounties, but I tried to trap and failed this year and may be more up for shooting them or having someone shoot them, if it was open year round. I always have stuff to do when it is open, then when its not I have nothing to do... kinda typical.
If the TWRA heard more on this, they may open coon season year round. Of course this is completely on the land owner, to get out and hunt these nest raiders. if they don;t nothing changes.

2. I saw cut hay today and wondered how many dead turkeys and fawns are out there.... Another thing that no one is mentioning a lot of farmers hate deer and turkey. I know for a fact that there are some out there that will let people they know hunt their farms so long as there is not discrimination on shooting a male bird (i.e. Tom vs. Jake). They just want you to come get 4 birds off their property. Then in Fall come back and shoot 3-6 depending on the limit. If that ain't working they invite more people or tell the ones that hunt there they can bring guests... Their goal is total decimation of the turkey population in that area. All because when it is planting season, the birds eat the seeds.

 

[catman529]

Farmers have always cut hay, predators have always raided nests, but I don't think TN hunters have always been shooting so many.

Places that don't get hunted as much seem to have more turkeys. Like where I killed a couple this year I saw 2 hens with missing feathers and saw the feathers from a killed hen and a gobbler got killed by a yote as well. But that place has tons of turkeys because few hunt it and the habitat is good. Those type of places are still fine with the 4 bird limit and fall hunting. Other places, especially public land, get hammered and I'm worried about the flocks there. Then there is the chicken crap issue as well that may be as serious as the bag limits if not worse. IMO.


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[FARMTOFIELD]

predators have always raided nests

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This is a fact, but there are a few things you are not accounting for,

People use to trap and coon hunt. A very very few still do, and the guys I know that coon hunt won't shoot a coon, they want them to multiply.

These nest raiders use to be kept thinned out, but now they only multiply like crazy. If you have 1 per 10 acres a nest doesn't stand a chance

 

[deerchaser007]

Farmers have always cut hay, predators have always raided nests, but I don't think TN hunters have always been shooting so many.

Places that don't get hunted as much seem to have more turkeys. Like where I killed a couple this year I saw 2 hens with missing feathers and saw the feathers from a killed hen and a gobbler got killed by a yote as well. But that place has tons of turkeys because few hunt it and the habitat is good. Those type of places are still fine with the 4 bird limit and fall hunting. Other places, especially public land, get hammered and I'm worried about the flocks there. Then there is the chicken crap issue as well that may be as serious as the bag limits if not worse. IMO.


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Here is my thoughts, and you are correct in your thinking. When turkey was restocked in TN the areas were the turkey was let go had huge populations after they established. After it got big enough the turkey expanded further and further and further. Those places now with huge populations should be managed the same, allowing for the population to expand into areas that are not as populated. I think setterman said it awhile back, did we allow the population to fully establish in most areas before the limit was raised years ago. I cannot speak for all areas of the state, but I do know there is areas in cannon county that still have 0 turkey. The habitat is there, acres of woodland scattered in between big open pastures and farm land. Wonderful turkey habitat, but has never been turkey in the area. I have always wondered if it just never was allowed to populate before the limits were raised and fall hunting was instituted.
And I fully agree with you, farmers were cutting hay and bush hogging in 90's when the population was expanding, nest were being raided then also, but the armadillo is a new predator since the restocking days, but is the armadillo really established enough to cause that huge of decline. Yote is far more established, but are there more hawks and owls now over then.
I don't have the answers, wish I did. The northern area of the county that I hunt is far better nesting habitat now than what it was when the turkey were stocked there. Then, it was all open woods with most in cattle pasture, and this is around 1000 acres in that area. Most areas outside that 1000 acres was much the same, all open woods with cattle. NOW, those cattle pastures are grown up fields that are not bushhogged at all. Left standing. Full of nesting habitat. BUT, not as much open ground for the birds now. We have WAY less birds now in that area. With no chicken litter anywere. Its just very strange.

 

[ZachMarkus]

last summer I was running about 6 trail cameras on 1,800 acres and the amount of coons I had pictures of were ridiculous, I had 11 in one picture, so when coon season opened I started trapping them and coon hunting with dogs at night, between those two things I killed 47, also we declared war on armadillos, we killed around 75 this winter, this spring I've had my cameras out for turkeys and I've only got pics of just a couple of coons and I rarely see an armadillo anymore... This has to have some effect on turkey nests in a positive way.

 

[catman529]

predators have always raided nests

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This is a fact, but there are a few things you are not accounting for,

People use to trap and coon hunt. A very very few still do, and the guys I know that coon hunt won't shoot a coon, they want them to multiply.

These nest raiders use to be kept thinned out, but now they only multiply like crazy. If you have 1 per 10 acres a nest doesn't stand a chance

I didn't think of the fact people don't trap or coon hunt as much. Wonder why


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[ZachMarkus]

Catman, there are still a lot of coon hunters out there, but a lot of them competition hunt mostly (my uncle being one of them) if they're just pleasure hunting they won't shoot a coon if they tree it, they want there to be as coons as possible that way they can guide a cast to their spots and have plenty of coons to run, and hopefully win some money, I Iike to hear the dogs run and all but if I tree a coon it's getting shot out.

 

[catman529]

Catman, there are still a lot of coon hunters out there, but a lot of them competition hunt mostly (my uncle being one of them) if they're just pleasure hunting they won't shoot a coon if they tree it, they want there to be as coons as possible that way they can guide a cast to their spots and have plenty of coons to run, and hopefully win some money, I Iike to hear the dogs run and all but if I tree a coon it's getting shot out.

I used to shoot one if I saw while deer hunting or whatever. Last time I shot one was raiding the cat food. Now when I see one while hunting I don't have much desire to shoot it. However I may change my mind this fall with turkeys in mind.


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[deerchaser007]

Bone collector, if you don't have time to drive the next county over, how can you say for certain middle Tn is fine and nothing should be done? On your readyville property, what was your population 15 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 2 years ago?

I bought the property in 2012, so I don't know what the population was before that. I have consistently seen between 20-30 birds on a regular basis since then. I hunt them and a farm over hunts them. I am talking from the standpoint of driving around on my side of town (Blackman area). I see flocks of 50+ in more than one area.

I drive down hwy 96 into Franklin every day and see tons of turkeys. I have friends and family in Wilson Co and see plenty there too.

I also hunt Priest and have seen about the same amount as normal. I should be tagged out, but screwed up twice and lost opportunities. the last one on Priest, I called and had a bird gobbling and strutting. he went quiet and I thought he had left. I eased out from my hiding spot and he and 4 other toms (I didn't realize were there) were 60 yds out. They all flew away.

I hope your readyville property stays good for you buddy. I hunted on the county line for a few years in readyville, finally got tired of climbing the hills for something that didn't exist in numbers worth hunting. That was around 600 acres.

 

[deerchaser007]

last summer I was running about 6 trail cameras on 1,800 acres and the amount of coons I had pictures of were ridiculous, I had 11 in one picture, so when coon season opened I started trapping them and coon hunting with dogs at night, between those two things I killed 47, also we declared war on armadillos, we killed around 75 this winter, this spring I've had my cameras out for turkeys and I've only got pics of just a couple of coons and I rarely see an armadillo anymore... This has to have some effect on turkey nests in a positive way.

That is a lot of armadillos! I have never caught one on all my camera census conducted from july til dec. They have not really got fully established around here yet, but they are here.

 

[Roost 1]

last summer I was running about 6 trail cameras on 1,800 acres and the amount of coons I had pictures of were ridiculous, I had 11 in one picture, so when coon season opened I started trapping them and coon hunting with dogs at night, between those two things I killed 47, also we declared war on armadillos, we killed around 75 this winter, this spring I've had my cameras out for turkeys and I've only got pics of just a couple of coons and I rarely see an armadillo anymore... This has to have some effect on turkey nests in a positive way.

That is a lot of armadillos! I have never caught one on all my camera census conducted from july til dec. They have not really got fully established around here yet, but they are here.

I would assume if you had 11 coons in 1 pic you must have corn out.....coons love corn...

 

[Boll Weevil]

This has to have some effect on turkey nests in a positive way.

It does and you will see the benefit this summer/fall...sounds like you're definitely helping the birds by removing that many predators.

The neat thing to watch is just how rapidly a local flock can expand with just a little help in this department and decent weather after the little boogers hatch. While I don't know the answer to this, I wonder if it's possible to have a local flock so large that even though raiders are going to get some nests there's just SO MANY nests that a flock can replace what is removed every year by hunting, natural mortality, or predation. I believe what's happened in some areas is the population got so low (for whatever reasons) they just couldn't replace what was being removed. When that year over year dwindling population trends starts it's hard to get it turned around if something in the equation doesn't change.

 

[woodsman87]

I kill all nest raiders at all cost. Even swerving to hit them driving down the road.
I will shoot all coyotes if given the opportunity, but I am not worried about them as much as nest getters.
Maybe if I kill all the coons and possums the coyotes will move off because less food for them. Also I should start killing every deer I see so that turkeys will get more of the benefit of my habitat work.

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[Setterman]

I kill all nest raiders at all cost. Even swerving to hit them driving down the road.
I will shoot all coyotes if given the opportunity, but I am not worried about them as much as nest getters.
Maybe if I kill all the coons and possums the coyotes will move off because less food for them. Also I should start killing every deer I see so that turkeys will get more of the benefit of my habitat work.

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Interesting you say that about the deer. One of the places I used to hunt in AL we wanted to keep it as our turkey place and not fool with trying to deer hunt. With the regs we were allowed to basically eradicate the deer herd from that property. Sure we had deer, but they were sparse at best. In just a couple of years our turkey population exploded on that property.

I'm sure there's no direct correlation, but from that one property it certainly seemed to help, and we also allowed the local coon hunters all access as long as they killed every coon they treed.

With that said, our issues aren't related to any of the mentioned critters. It's painfully obvious why our hunting is declining and it has everything to do with the increase in limits IMO

 

[woodsman87]

I kill all nest raiders at all cost. Even swerving to hit them driving down the road.
I will shoot all coyotes if given the opportunity, but I am not worried about them as much as nest getters.
Maybe if I kill all the coons and possums the coyotes will move off because less food for them. Also I should start killing every deer I see so that turkeys will get more of the benefit of my habitat work.

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Interesting you say that about the deer. One of the places I used to hunt in AL we wanted to keep it as our turkey place and not fool with trying to deer hunt. With the regs we were allowed to basically eradicate the deer herd from that property. Sure we had deer, but they were sparse at best. In just a couple of years our turkey population exploded on that property.

I'm sure there's no direct correlation, but from that one property it certainly seemed to help, and we also allowed the local coon hunters all access as long as they killed every coon they treed.

I like that plan! I was just joking about all deer being killed, but, we have deer hunters that kill turkeys because they can.
I am sure I would be hated if I started killing every deer by all legal means necessary.
If they weren't so hard to drag out when they ran Into a holla I might just start a deer massacre.





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[Setterman]

I used to be as diehard a deer hunter as anyone around. I've spent untold sums of money managing properties and growing beastly creatures. Been fortunate to kill a bunch of really big ones too.

However over the last few years I've grown to despise deer hunting, the deer hunting community that exists now, and the have a hard time getting excited to even climb in a tree stand. Sure I still go, and still kill some great bucks, but it wouldn't bother me in the least if they just vanished from most of the places I frequent.

I think it's the deer hunting community now that turned me off so badly in the last few years, it's like the new generation of turkey people only ten times worse

 

[woodsman87]

Alot of it is the same crowd. Turkey hunting exploded when tv hunters started using blinds and strutter decoys, as well as trying to make hunting a competition. When guys such as the primos people started all it was was hunting footage. Now everybody, even primos, is trying to sale the dumbest gadgets whether it be for turkeys or something else.

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[Boll Weevil]

Turkey hunting exploded when tv hunters started using blinds and strutter decoys, as well as trying to make hunting a competition.

I know this isn't a "bash strutter decoys and blinds" thread but I have indeed seen numerous tv hunts this spring where (unless they've edited it out) there's not one single solitary call made. None. As well Primos, Eddie Salter, and the Lakosky's all had shows dedicated to competitions. No doubt in my mind toms that would otherwise carryover from year to year are being removed in growing numbers because of these methods.

 

[Tennessee Lead]

predators have always raided nests

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This is a fact, but there are a few things you are not accounting for,

People use to trap and coon hunt. A very very few still do, and the guys I know that coon hunt won't shoot a coon, they want them to multiply.

These nest raiders use to be kept thinned out, but now they only multiply like crazy. If you have 1 per 10 acres a nest doesn't stand a chance

I didn't think of the fact people don't trap or coon hunt as much. Wonder why


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No one wants coonhunting on their property. It messes up their deer hunting. Hard to find land big enough to hold a hard hunting dog.


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[darn2ten]

I've mentioned the coon hunting affect before. Place we use to hunt was around 400 acres with about 1/4 of it being open with cows on it and the rest wooded. When we first started hunting it it was a turkey haven. The guy who ran cows on it had a couple sons that coon hunted it hard. For whatever reason they just completely stopped one year and after about 3-4 years it was a completely different place. It went from hearing enough birds in the morning that you had trouble deciding with one you wanted to set up on to lucky if you heard 2 or 3 on the whole place. The only change that we could see was the coon hunting had stopped. Back when they hunted I never remember seeing a live coon in the woods, ever. About 3-5 years after they stopped it was common to see them. I truly believe that one thing alone had a huge impact on that particular property.