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Missouri reports

SKFOOTER":3cykkwj7 said:
I've been waiting for someone to mention bald eagles. They are becoming more plentiful and can definitely take down a full grown turkey.

Yep. I've seen several. I used to get excited to see one, now I get mad and wish they'd go away. Nothing but a glorified buzzard. Saw one back in March eating a dead armadillo on the side of a road.
Nothing more than a protected buzzard.


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TheLBLman":vww94j4o said:
woodsman04":vww94j4o said:
Quail and turkeys are very similar, but the big advantage that a turkey has over quail is that once it gets through its first summer and into fall, it's big enough, fast enough, and strong enough to evade many predators.
Quail are perfect eating size for all predators their entire life.
I USED to think that myself, but have recently changed my mind a bit.

More recently (past few years) have witnessed an "evolution" of some of the more apex predators specifically targeting turkeys, yet these particular predators would appear to have less, little or no interest in something as small as a bobwhite quail.

This is in part due to quail populations being so sparse that maybe certain predators like coyotes and bobcats now have little opportunity to specifically focus their hunting on adult quail (as they once did).

But adult turkeys have some new predatory problems:
Both increases in predators that hunt turkeys,
and evolutionary changes in both how and what these predators focus their hunting.

More and more, I see coyotes and bobcats out "hunting" during mid-day,
and this seems always focused on places they would expect to ambush a turkey.
Most other prey they hunt are more easily hunted nocturnally.

Then, there is the increase and evolution of bald eagles.
They have been learning to target and hunt turkeys,
while they'll likely never have interest in smaller birds such as quail.

Duck hunters were the first to witness part of this eagle revolution.
I'm just telling you it also involves turkeys.

Your right, but turkeys will always be harder for apex predators to kill just because their strength and size.


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Setterman":16gezum5 said:
Goodtimekiller":16gezum5 said:
I also dont care if they push the season opener back 2 weeks, however i wish they would at least push the close back a week, i can't stand that it's on mothers day and i never get to hunt the last day, maybe an hour or two if i want to push it with the wife.


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I could get on board with this. For us in the mountains we don't get the fun times of birds without hens. We hunt henned up birds all season. Only once in my life have we been able to find lone birds late season. If anything it gets tougher towards the end because we are so far behind,

Our season structure is dumb honestly.

One thing that could go is the youth hunts. I know that's controversial but if people are focused on their kids you can take them anytime and not hit the birds when they're so vulnerable

I agree with moving the season to Mid April through Mid May (4-week) with 2 bird limit.

Now the youth hunt, I'm sorry but it should be before the birds are pressured by ever idiot that has a crow call. I would give up my hunting season so my kids could hunt in need be. Heck I would be OK if the youth weekend was a bonus bird above a 2 bird limit.

As for the Jakes being youth only, I don't see that as a huge issue (less then 10% killed), plus your limited new hunters to enjoy the season. That's like telling all adult deer hunters it has to be 8pt or better only. Even though I've only killed 3 jakes (first 2 birds & one was a fall bow kill) in 27 years of hunting but I think of times i've been with guys that killed one and you would have thought they killed a world record. One guy I took wanted to kill one with his dad's double barrel 20 that he just got after his dad died the month before. He wore his dad's old 80's brown camo hat and jacket and we had 2 jakes come in at 20 yards into my decoy set in this 60 acre field. he laid the bigger jake down and just burst into tears like a baby. One of the best hunts I had ever been a part of!
 
Shooter77":2xvwin0f said:
Setterman":2xvwin0f said:
Goodtimekiller":2xvwin0f said:
I also dont care if they push the season opener back 2 weeks, however i wish they would at least push the close back a week, i can't stand that it's on mothers day and i never get to hunt the last day, maybe an hour or two if i want to push it with the wife.


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I could get on board with this. For us in the mountains we don't get the fun times of birds without hens. We hunt henned up birds all season. Only once in my life have we been able to find lone birds late season. If anything it gets tougher towards the end because we are so far behind,

Our season structure is dumb honestly.

One thing that could go is the youth hunts. I know that's controversial but if people are focused on their kids you can take them anytime and not hit the birds when they're so vulnerable

I agree with moving the season to Mid April through Mid May (4-week) with 2 bird limit.

Now the youth hunt, I'm sorry but it should be before the birds are pressured by ever idiot that has a crow call. I would give up my hunting season so my kids could hunt in need be. Heck I would be OK if the youth weekend was a bonus bird above a 2 bird limit.

As for the Jakes being youth only, I don't see that as a huge issue (less then 10% killed), plus your limited new hunters to enjoy the season. That's like telling all adult deer hunters it has to be 8pt or better only. Even though I've only killed 3 jakes (first 2 birds & one was a fall bow kill) in 27 years of hunting but I think of times i've been with guys that killed one and you would have thought they killed a world record. One guy I took wanted to kill one with his dad's double barrel 20 that he just got after his dad died the month before. He wore his dad's old 80's brown camo hat and jacket and we had 2 jakes come in at 20 yards into my decoy set in this 60 acre field. he laid the bigger jake down and just burst into tears like a baby. One of the best hunts I had ever been a part of!

I am not, nor ever have been in favor of the youth seasons. Dads should take their kids whenever they go if the kids want to go. In any season (except bow season), I rarely hunt more times by myself than with a kid. I don't lose any sleep over there being a youth season since it does give more days to hunt, but I do see it as an excuse for some dads to not take their kids hunting during the entire season. I essentially give up my season for my kids and any other kid that wants to hunt every year.
 
recurve60#":2veiqcmp said:
Guys I've been following the decline in Turkey's thread. I've not seen a decline where I hunt, but i hear my farm this my farm that when it comes to decline. I also read bad hatches, weather, bag limits to high. What I have not heard is herbicides effecting hatches. I may be going out on a limb here, no pun intended, but Grazon is very potent. If I put dried cow piles in my garden from a pasture sprayed with Grazon it will kill my garden. What could be the effects of that spray in fence rows and over spray into thickets hitting nests? I truly think its worth a study if the "farms" don't have Turkey's anymore. I hunt mountains btw. I've not seen the decrease I'm reading about here.

Grazon is some mean stuff... crazy residual. I planted a 4 bean summer plot on one of my farms we sprayed with Grazon 3 years prior last year. Not sure if it was residual in the ground, or residual in the sprayer tank (had been washed multiple times since using Grazon), but it completely failed. Now I don't think it will affect turkeys directly, but it certainly will kill the snot out of clover and other forages for them decreasing food supply.
 
poorhunter":2bjdfnge said:
I am not, nor ever have been in favor of the youth seasons. Dads should take their kids whenever they go if the kids want to go. In any season (except bow season), I rarely hunt more times by myself than with a kid. I don't lose any sleep over there being a youth season since it does give more days to hunt, but I do see it as an excuse for some dads to not take their kids hunting during the entire season. I essentially give up my season for my kids and any other kid that wants to hunt every year.
x2


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The Juvi season needs to go away. If parents are so focused on taking their kids then take them during the normal season. It's a selfish parent to say I have to have a youth weekend in order for my kid to be able to hunt. Also, there's a ton of birds that are killed before breeding because almost no body teaches their kid to hunt. They take them turkey shooting with decoys and blinds. Kids I take they by golly are going to hunt and earn their kill, not just sit in a blind. So many lessons are lost because fathers want the easy way out for their kids, by staking out a plastic turkey and sitting in a blind.

Secondly, each year I see pictures of kids who couldn't even hold a gun with a long beard. How many of these are shot by daddy?

I'm all for promoting our youth and take a bunch each year, but the dedicated season needs to be gone
 
Is it not selfish to deny the youth their own weekend? Why not just take the tee stand away and put them in the batters box with Nolan Ryan humming a inside and high fast ball their way?

I get it and I too shun the greedy that only take the youth during the specified weekend. Or the low life's that abuse the youth only season to justify a head start.
Me personally, I can assure you that I will take my nephews and daughter (assuming they want to experience it) on the youth hunts and if they really want to experience some action they will tag along with me during the peak gobbling phase of later April. But I will never deny them their "own" weekend, even if it means I have to sacrifice.

I'm selfish too, but for the nostalgia of it. My grandfather drove from Ft Campbell, after a 50+ hour work week, to Nashville every October/November to specifically pick me up and bring me to our hunting camp in Dickson County for the youth TN Deer hunt. It was our weekend that the state set aside for us. Guess what, he did the same for that historic Monday when muzzle loader opened and the rifle weekend opener. The caveat, which excited me just as much as my own youth hunt, was he had two weapons in his truck. That meant it was a good possibility that we might just fill two tags or I just might be old enough to sit in the woods alone...

Some times, as mature adults, we do things intentionally for the sole reason being that "it's the right thing to do". So I say, to hell with the pieces of crap that use the youth season as a head start on everyone else, screw those those that influence the newer hunters with mischievous ethics and grey morals. As I, will not forfeit the energy my grandfather expended to take me on "my" weekend. I want my nieces, nephews and daughter to get a glimps of what made me. I want them to experience it, not hear some story of "back in my day".

On those youth hunts our success rate was so low it was unmeasurable but the memories are priceless. Sure, we can do that any time of season it is open and for the most part we did. But on that calendar, a year in advance, we had our own special weekend dedicated. Like Christmas, get the drift?

Go ahead, take away the first weekend, I don't care. It's not about higher odds of killing something, only a fool would think that. No participation trophies awarded, it's simply not a competition.
It doesn't matter what weekend it is but give them their own weekend. Make it special, make it a holiday if you will and those that fail to understand what I'm saying I feel sorry for you. As I have experienced something that I can never replicate in my adult life, my only hope is to do my best and hope those youth I take have a positive impression like the one left on me.

Give them their weekend and teach them to be selfless conservationists.










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AT Hiker":3tadmnvb said:
Is it not selfish to deny the youth their own weekend? Why not just take the tee stand away and put them in the batters box with Nolan Ryan humming a inside and high fast ball their way?

I get it and I too shun the greedy that only take the youth during the specified weekend. Or the low life's that abuse the youth only season to justify a head start.
Me personally, I can assure you that I will take my nephews and daughter (assuming they want to experience it) on the youth hunts and if they really want to experience some action they will tag along with me during the peak gobbling phase of later April. But I will never deny them their "own" weekend, even if it means I have to sacrifice.

I'm selfish too, but for the nostalgia of it. My grandfather drove from Ft Campbell, after a 50+ hour work week, to Nashville every October/November to specifically pick me up and bring me to our hunting camp in Dickson County for the youth TN Deer hunt. It was our weekend that the state set aside for us. Guess what, he did the same for that historic Monday when muzzle loader opened and the rifle weekend opener. The caveat, which excited me just as much as my own youth hunt, was he had two weapons in his truck. That meant it was a good possibility that we might just fill two tags or I just might be old enough to sit in the woods alone...

Some times, as mature adults, we do things intentionally for the sole reason being that "it's the right thing to do". So I say, to hell with the pieces of crap that use the youth season as a head start on everyone else, screw those those that influence the newer hunters with mischievous ethics and grey morals. As I, will not forfeit the energy my grandfather expended to take me on "my" weekend. I want my nieces, nephews and daughter to get a glimps of what made me. I want them to experience it, not hear some story of "back in my day".

On those youth hunts our success rate was so low it was unmeasurable but the memories are priceless. Sure, we can do that any time of season it is open and for the most part we did. But on that calendar, a year in advance, we had our own special weekend dedicated. Like Christmas, get the drift?

Go ahead, take away the first weekend, I don't care. It's not about higher odds of killing something, only a fool would think that. No participation trophies awarded, it's simply not a competition.
It doesn't matter what weekend it is but give them their own weekend. Make it special, make it a holiday if you will and those that fail to understand what I'm saying I feel sorry for you. As I have experienced something that I can never replicate in my adult life, my only hope is to do my best and hope those youth I take have a positive impression like the one left on me.

Give them their weekend and teach them to be selfless conservationists.


I agree. One reason for the youth hunts is to give the youth a chance at the best, unpressured hunting, to give them the best chance at at great experience. Hopefully this will lead to more hunters, and that national number is declining so we have to make sure hunter numbers in tn do not decline. We are a dying breed, no matter how you hunt. If it took a blind or decoys to get a 10 year old to hunt, i would buy every 10 year old in the state one. We can't depend on all the adults to be responsible and take kids all the time. Yes, it is sad, but we can't leave this up to the irresponsible ones. We have to do what we can to get these young hunters into the sport and through any way we can we have to teach them to hunt ethically and responsibly. But we can't teach these young hunters anything if they are not hunters.

As i said before, the hunting and weather might be more enjoyable and better if the youth hunt was pushed back into the middle part of the season but then the birds would be more pressured on some farms or not as many turkeys because many would already be dead. I would rather see our season pushed back 3 weeks and the youth hunt placed on the first weekend than to not have a youth weekend at all. If, as an adult, you don't want a youth weekend because it kills some of your birds, you are one of the irresponsible ones. Put the kids and hunting before yourself.

Every year i look forward to the youth because i know its the first weekend i get to go and there will probably be lots of gobbling and teaching going on.

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Good post AT Hiker! I have a 9 year old and he can go with me anytime he wants. I do not push it but he has went several times this year but by far the thing he looks forward to the most is the juvenile hunt! I have to agree with him on that , we go every year to public land and I do not have to worry about people running over the top of him! I think the kids deserve the best opportunity at a bird before every joker in the woods is after them . Are we seriously worried about a kid that kills a "breeder Tom"? But it is ok if you kill one the next weekend? So you are telling me that all breeding is done by the next week so its okay for you have at it just not a kid the weekend before? I really enjoy you guys and you have tons of knowledge but some of this is getting out of hand. Some of you contradict yourselves with what you say at times , you want a two bird limit but its okay for you to kill 4? Worried about the turkeys but "personally responsible for the deaths of 9 Tn Toms"? If you are going to advocate change then do it yourself and quit worrying about others . Maybe others that kill 4 are "moving around" which makes it okay or they are leaving a "breeder Tom" on each farm they hunt. That makes it okay correct? Not trying to argue at all but point out that if you talk it ,walk it! I ended with three as I killed one yesterday morning, I used what little time I had left before Sunday school on the final morning to call for a man that has never killed a bird as I could care less about "Killing out". Here is what I think about the season, the numbers will be lower but I do think weather played a huge role in that. I know what you are going to say we have had bad weather before! Yes but someone tell me when it has been that bad on the weekends? That is when most people get to hunt, I believe some of you are retired because you hunt it seems everyday and think others get to also. I do not in any way deny that some of you have experienced a drop in birds, I promise you I have not noticed anything in the area I am in. Yesterday I heard several different birds and I am not hunting in one of the top counties by no means. Wonder why last year when the State killed 2000 more than usual no one pointed that out? I will keep going I guess, some of you want to stop hunting at noon? I enjoy going after work when I get a chance, the main reason you do not have to deal with people ! Remember turkeys only gobble at daylight! So you basically want to cut me to noon on Saturday and 9 on Sunday morning as I leave to get ready for Sunday school. So I want to get this correct me hunting of the evening every now and then has a bigger impact on turkeys than you guys that hunt every morning of the season? I will make my suggestions simple if we need to do something to our season .

#1- cut limit to 3
#2 - Take one week of season away
#3- Cut any and all hen killing That would be my suggestions if anything! Simple and easy ! Let me say I am not attacking anyone as I am not that type I have seen some of the statements I put above from some of you that are worried about our turkeys but do not remember who said them just pointing it out.
 
No youth season when I started. If I wanted to hunt I hunted with my dad during normal season. I say I turned out as an alright turkey hunter and a good outdoorsman and sportsman.

It was always fun and special for us.


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AT Hiker":2zwdte1m said:
Is it not selfish to deny the youth their own weekend? Why not just take the tee stand away and put them in the batters box with Nolan Ryan humming a inside and high fast ball their way?

I get it and I too shun the greedy that only take the youth during the specified weekend. Or the low life's that abuse the youth only season to justify a head start.
Me personally, I can assure you that I will take my nephews and daughter (assuming they want to experience it) on the youth hunts and if they really want to experience some action they will tag along with me during the peak gobbling phase of later April. But I will never deny them their "own" weekend, even if it means I have to sacrifice.

I'm selfish too, but for the nostalgia of it. My grandfather drove from Ft Campbell, after a 50+ hour work week, to Nashville every October/November to specifically pick me up and bring me to our hunting camp in Dickson County for the youth TN Deer hunt. It was our weekend that the state set aside for us. Guess what, he did the same for that historic Monday when muzzle loader opened and the rifle weekend opener. The caveat, which excited me just as much as my own youth hunt, was he had two weapons in his truck. That meant it was a good possibility that we might just fill two tags or I just might be old enough to sit in the woods alone...

Some times, as mature adults, we do things intentionally for the sole reason being that "it's the right thing to do". So I say, to hell with the pieces of crap that use the youth season as a head start on everyone else, screw those those that influence the newer hunters with mischievous ethics and grey morals. As I, will not forfeit the energy my grandfather expended to take me on "my" weekend. I want my nieces, nephews and daughter to get a glimps of what made me. I want them to experience it, not hear some story of "back in my day".

On those youth hunts our success rate was so low it was unmeasurable but the memories are priceless. Sure, we can do that any time of season it is open and for the most part we did. But on that calendar, a year in advance, we had our own special weekend dedicated. Like Christmas, get the drift?

Go ahead, take away the first weekend, I don't care. It's not about higher odds of killing something, only a fool would think that. No participation trophies awarded, it's simply not a competition.
It doesn't matter what weekend it is but give them their own weekend. Make it special, make it a holiday if you will and those that fail to understand what I'm saying I feel sorry for you. As I have experienced something that I can never replicate in my adult life, my only hope is to do my best and hope those youth I take have a positive impression like the one left on me.

Give them their weekend and teach them to be selfless conservationists.

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Great Post! I grew up in VA were there wasn't a youth season till about 2006 for anything. They changed the regs in 2000, well after I became to old to hunt that a youth under 15 could kill a anterless deer anything time during the ML or Gun season even on Antler only days of the season. VA even has a 2 day youth bear season now. I'm sure I could have killed a lot more my first few years of hunting if that was in place but I still loved it. Also hunted all NF land and at the time, VA deer and turkey were booming. It was nothing to see 3-50 deer a hunt on NF land. Now you can go a week and 5 over that time. Like AT Hiker said, the memories of my dad working 3 jobs and getting off and taking me anytime was something I cherish. He would take me bow hunting when I was 5 with him (got chased by a bear the first time in the woods). I don't expect my 7 y/o to hike 45 mins - 1.5 hr to get to spots I hunt so he get the feel of hunting like a man that others talk about. The youth is a our future of the sport. they are the ones that we pass it own for our grand kids to have and enjoy. So what's the big deal about giving up 2 days of season for the kids and so what if they kill the Boss bird!
 
the amount of selfishness on this board towards youth hunts never fails to amaze me, no matter if its turkey or deer, why in the he!! do you want to take away extra days for youth to hunt unpressured animals by theirselves!
 
knightrider":3heak2e6 said:
the amount of selfishness on this board towards youth hunts never fails to amaze me, no matter if its turkey or deer, why in the he!! do you want to take away extra days for youth to hunt unpressured animals by theirselves!

Totally agree!
 
So instead of taking away from the youth, why don't the ones who know people that are abusing this weekend just report the low life's........And while they are at it report all the baiters as well. I think the reason its not reported, in some cases, is because the complainers are the guilty parties. :o :shock:
 
Setterman":teb4z5iu said:
Kids I take they by golly are going to hunt and earn their kill

Do you call for them, or make them do it?

I got to thinking over the weekend about a change that would definitely increase the number of gobblers: Make it illegal to call for others!

I mean, why not, as it makes about as much sense as some of the other things that have been mentioned.
 
PalsPal":2nhglpp7 said:
Setterman":2nhglpp7 said:
Kids I take they by golly are going to hunt and earn their kill

Do you call for them, or make them do it?

I got to thinking over the weekend about a change that would definitely increase the number of gobblers: Make it illegal to call for others!

I mean, why not, as it makes about as much sense as some of the other things that have been mentioned.

You know, that's a interesting point. I just seen on Facebook that someone had called in and killed 23 tons this year. That's about 19 that would have lived if he didn't call.


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AT Hiker":3ey48tbk said:
PalsPal":3ey48tbk said:
Setterman":3ey48tbk said:
Kids I take they by golly are going to hunt and earn their kill

Do you call for them, or make them do it?

I got to thinking over the weekend about a change that would definitely increase the number of gobblers: Make it illegal to call for others!

I mean, why not, as it makes about as much sense as some of the other things that have been mentioned.

You know, that's a interesting point. I just seen on Facebook that someone had called in and killed 23 tons this year. That's about 19 that would have lived if he didn't call.

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THAT'S SERIOUSLY A TON OF BIRDS...J/K :rotf:
 
we are digressing, but I'm actually ambivalent regarding juvie season for turkeys. I'm about as staunch an advocate for juvie season for deer, simply because my little 10 y/o girl cannot shoot a ML, and that's the only weekend she can hunt deer in the prerut and before most of the older deer have been killed. By the time rifle season opens, most of the bigger deer have already been killed.

For turkeys, the hunting seems to get better as the season progresses. When I took her this year in TN, I didn't carry a gun. We had an understanding that if multiple birds came in, she would shoot one, and he was flopping, she would pass me the gun and I'll call the others back in and I'd take one. I've done the juvie hunt with my son in the past, and the toms are still flocked up and hard to kill without strutter decoys on my properties. Now I'd love if they closed the season to adults mid April and gave a weekend just to juvies, but it seems for both deer and turkeys, the kids get the worst weekends of the entire season. What does that say?
 

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