chimneyman
Well-Known Member
I was talking about Tenn size limit
MS Crappie Limit Reduced Due to Livescope
- Thread starter rsimms
- Start date
Irregardless of the species targeted I view Livescope on par with fanning turkeys which ain't far from tournament fishing! Can you imagine tournament turkey hunts!?!?
Livescope and fanning both work, too well! A clear unfair advantage that allows greedy people to abuse the resources and steals game & fish from the fair chase sportsman who is most often out for a mess of fish for their families or even some fun catch and release.
The greed for revenue is the main factor that keeps both of these methods legal and on the market.
I am likely in the minority here but am totally against it.
Livescope and fanning both work, too well! A clear unfair advantage that allows greedy people to abuse the resources and steals game & fish from the fair chase sportsman who is most often out for a mess of fish for their families or even some fun catch and release.
The greed for revenue is the main factor that keeps both of these methods legal and on the market.
I am likely in the minority here but am totally against it.
I admire old school guys like you that are anti-technology and only fish on the bank with a cane pole, homemade hook, and live bait you dug up. It's not for me but I respect it.
That's a poor argument and one that is made because I believe deep down you know he's right and dont really have a valid argument against it. You may not like it or want to agree but it's truth. Maybe your cane pole bank fishing view holds a little water also, but not enough to discredit what he said imo. Look at cell phones. They have went from big gaudy things with antennas stretched out that were barely usable, to basically handheld computers/flat screen tvs/gps/video game console/dating service/ etc. rolled into one.
Now look at this fragile weaker generation younger than us that have grown up with them. Take away what cell phones have become and what they now provide, do you think these kids would have still ended up like this? Technology now is not as simple as putting on a depth finder pre live scope days. The 2 can't even be compared imo.
The world would be better if more people stood on a bank with a cane pole fishing with worms instead of spending thousands of dollars on B.S. flat screens, special batteries, poles that keep you from moving off your target and whatever else crap has been invented that makes people believe they can't function without it. These things are helping people rape the waters and we are just now seeing the bad they can cause. I hope I'm wrong but I believe it will only get worse.
If Iive scope is going to stick around then I hope they drop the limits and make it miserable for all who are in favor of them because I promise when it's all said and done these people who can't stay off the water using them will be the VERY SAME ones complaining about "fishing just aint what it used to be" Again, I hope I'm wrong but history shows too much technology is a bad thing with stuff like this. We need it for flying planes, operating on people and a whole gang of other stuff, but not for catching fish!
Maybe the average guy who uses it won't be to blame but the guides, and new crowd who only know livescope will be 100% to blame. Jmho
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Harold Money jr
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of when I was a kid and quail hunting (bird hunting). I was always taught to not shoot into a covey with less than 8 on the rise and if there was 10 or less we didn't hunt down singles. Well the live scoper people I know (I have one too) will get on a school and try their best to wipe it out. Then when it busts up or moves they'll come back for days on that same school till they're too hard to catch. I say that live scope is an awesome tool that can very easily be misused.
Crow Terminator
Well-Known Member
I have it on my boat and seldom turn it on. With that said...with anything, there will be people against whatever it is. Traditional archers don't like modern compound bows and accessories and to them, they are on a higher level than compound archers. And both tend to snub crossbow hunters. Fishing is no different. As for me....I use maps and 2D/down imaging more than I do anything, bar none.
True, but I'd say most traditional, compound, and cross bow hunters would probably all agree that somebody flying a drone with some high def cameras all over the woods chasing deer in real time killing the snot out of them would not be ok. In fact, I dont even know what the right comparison would be when it comes to this. It's almost like a mix of killing deer inside a pen at night using thermals or something, idk.
That might be another bad comparison but it just feels wrong and puts the game at way too much of a disadvantage.
I can hear it now.
"Hey Alexa. Cast my bait right to the third fish from the bottom right, reel it in and put it in my hands so I can take a picture of the fish I just caught"
Crow Terminator
Well-Known Member
We've had game cameras and cell cameras for years that show us what kind of deer are on a property and what times they are moving...but it's still no guarantee you'll kill that deer. Same thing with forward facing sonar. Just because you see fish in real time don't mean you can catch them. There's a little bit of a learning curve to it too...a whole new level of boat control must be utilized (thus the invention of boat brakes) and even then, you are just looking at blobs on a screen. And fish don't stay still or in one place all the time. Watch some actively feeding fish and note how fast they can be here one minute and then pop up on the surface feeding 500 yards away. I still say it's traditional vs new mentality and they'll never jive. You've got "purists" in every sport. Go to some of the trout forums and it's a constant bickering between fly rod folks vs spinning rod folks...and even sub categories within the two...dry fly vs euro nymph, and artificial only vs live bait. Waders vs bank fisherman vs boat fisherman. Even within crappie fishing there's some who dislike trolling. It's about the only way I can catch em in the summer.
fairchaser
Well-Known Member
I wish I had to worry about limits when I fish. 10 keeper fish is plenty to take home and clean. That's enough for two family meals. A 50% reduction in the limit is pretty significant. I believe the proliferation of guides is a bigger cause of decimation of the population. But there's no good way to control that or to control live scope for that matter. I hope this reduction improves the population for all of us who are tired of coming home with 2 keepers. It takes 3 trips to have enough for a fish fry.
I just can't get on board with the "we run trail cams" argument either. I see the angle but it's still not the same. I don't really think there is anything in hunting that is comparable to live scope and all the gadgets. You'd almost have to say there is a new trail cam that comes loaded with ammo. When deer show up, you get a notification on your phone that shows the deer, how far away it is, then asks if you want the camera to take the shot lol. I just don't think there is anything in hunting that's close to live scope(yet). Live scope is not a gurentee but it's putting you way ahead of the curve. Probably closer to a gurentee than we need to be.
There are a lot more crappie(or fish in general) than deer or turkeys, so if something like live scope came along in the hunting world that was capable of doing to their numbers what live scope can do to fish can you imagine the uproar? For me, some of my problem with live scope is the purist part but my argument is about what are we doing to fishing for the future? What are the actual benefits from it? The only arguments I've heard are "it's awesome". Ok, It's awesome, but now you're seeing the start of limits being reduced so where are we headed? What's next?
I'm sure my points come across harsher than I mean, but they are truly coming from a concerned sportsman POV. I don't think we need this kind of technology in hunting or fishing and we definitely don't need to be "raising " a generation who only know this way.
There are a lot more crappie(or fish in general) than deer or turkeys, so if something like live scope came along in the hunting world that was capable of doing to their numbers what live scope can do to fish can you imagine the uproar? For me, some of my problem with live scope is the purist part but my argument is about what are we doing to fishing for the future? What are the actual benefits from it? The only arguments I've heard are "it's awesome". Ok, It's awesome, but now you're seeing the start of limits being reduced so where are we headed? What's next?
I'm sure my points come across harsher than I mean, but they are truly coming from a concerned sportsman POV. I don't think we need this kind of technology in hunting or fishing and we definitely don't need to be "raising " a generation who only know this way.
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bowhunterfanatic
Well-Known Member
I think the comparison you are trying to make is pretty simple. It's akin to using a thermal drone to deer hunt. You could go out any time of day and more than likely find the buck you were targeting. That wouldn't guarantee that you can kill him the same way livescope doesn't guarantee you catch fish, but it sure ups the odds. Livescope is useless for the only kind of fishing I still do much of, but if thermal drones ever become legal for hunting I'll just quit and play golf all winter.
This is a pretty good comparison.
I say make keeping fish illegal with a live scope on board, catch and release only. I mean, we don't use live decoys for ducks anymore, nor 4 gauge shotguns mounted on the front of a kayak poled into a resting raft of birds. We can't use electric shocks to stun fish to the surface and collect them, or dynamite. Or live time drone cameras to follow deer while hunting.
I'm all for using the resources God has given us, but (as several have pointed out) limits need to be put on human greed. When hunters and fishermen abuse the resource for their own benefit at the expense of the resource AND at the expense of their neighbor, they ought to be called to task for it. Livescope, fanning/strutter decoys, cell cameras, spot lighting deer etc need to be taken out of the toolbox of responsible outdoorsmen. It shouldn't take a law or regulation to do that, but unfortunately it seems that is the only thing some will listen to because they are "legalists"…if it's legal, do it.
I'd say that's a pretty good comparison.
Good post. Where were you while I was typing a novel? LOL.
Good post. Where were you while I was typing a novel? LOL.
MickThompson
Well-Known Member
I like it. Also would outlaw livescope in tournaments and pretty well do away with any incentive to push the technology further
This x100!
What comes after livescope will be much worse. We live in a lazy/nerdy technology era where people need it to be as easy and high tech as possible. Can't push a vacuum so buy a robot that does it for you while you watch it from the couch. Can't shake a salt shaker so pay triple for one you turn upside down and it does it automatically. Don't want to go through a cd collection to find the one we like so holler at a box across the room to play it. Why go visit and talk with a friend when we can look at their FB. The people that are behind live scope and beyond are like people messing with AI. It's a road we shouldn't have went down, and we need to stop messing around with it before we go too far.
I wish all the "livescope experts" that have never used livescope, yet think it's automatic could come sit in my chair, run the trolling motor, fight the wind, keep the fish on the screen, make an accurate pitch to the fish, put the bait in the strike zone, and put the fish in the boat. It's not as easy as you've been told, and it's certainly not automatic.
Furthermore, we are seeing fish are adapting to livescope. In the early days of LS, a crappie would sit still and you could fish for him as long as you wanted as long as you didn't touch him with your jig. Then they got a little spooky and if you bumped your trolling motor too close or made noise in the boat he would run. Now we are finding that you can coast to the fish, never make a sound, and never bump the motor, and the fish will spook off just the boat approaching. Also, fish used to look up when the bait hit the water. Now, if that bait makes much noise at all, they spook. I know it sounds crazy but they are learning and adapting to being hounded by boats.
Furthermore, we are seeing fish are adapting to livescope. In the early days of LS, a crappie would sit still and you could fish for him as long as you wanted as long as you didn't touch him with your jig. Then they got a little spooky and if you bumped your trolling motor too close or made noise in the boat he would run. Now we are finding that you can coast to the fish, never make a sound, and never bump the motor, and the fish will spook off just the boat approaching. Also, fish used to look up when the bait hit the water. Now, if that bait makes much noise at all, they spook. I know it sounds crazy but they are learning and adapting to being hounded by boats.
I will admit, if you have your xducer on a separate mount and spot lock on a school of black crappie or a brushpile loaded with black crappie, it's pretty easy to pick them off. We just don't have many black crappie where I fish, and white crappie are loners and like to suspend in open water.
That does it!
Never been one to name vehicles but ordering vinyl today to name my boat;
MY CANE POLE
I love it!
Surely you don't fish out of a boat! I hope it's a canoe hand carved out of a log. Otherwise you are using technology to steal fish and rape the resource!That does it!
Never been one to name vehicles but ordering vinyl today to name my boat;
MY CANE POLE
I love it!
