Muzzleloader Federal B.O.R. Loc REVIEW.

[BSK]

I shoot a Savage smokeless with a .458 Barnes Original 300 grain bullet in a sabot. I've never recovered one; they always pass through. I believe it would pass through end to end.

Prior to shooting smokeless I always used Barnes expanders. I recovered a lot of those just under the hide on the off side. But the entrance wounds left a lot of blood and the insides were destroyed. Never lost a deer with those, and I shot a lot of them.

I think you should reconsider your bias against sabots. It's not the sabot but the bullet that matters.

Noy going to happen. I want muzzleloader hunting to be muzzleloader hunting. I freely admit I'm stuck in the past, but MZ hunting was always basically a short-range (inside 100 yards) single-shot weapon. I want to keep it that way. That isn't to say I won't accept some concessions for better effectiveness though. I've switched to an inline instead of a side-hammer for more consistent ignitions, better weather resistance, and ease of mounting a scope (my eyesight has gotten so bad I can use open sights). I'll also use substitute powders (777) for less fouling. But I don't want to turn my MZ into a rifle. Besides, I have no use for a bullet designed for 150-200 yard shots. The vast majority of our shots are inside 50 yards, and most are at bow ranges. If it comes down to it, I'll shove a big chunk of lead down a barrel loaded with 777 (or BH209 if the price ever drops to realistic levels).

 

[BSK]

My main muzzleloader is a TC Omega. My buddy has one as well, and we've both noticed how tight the bores are. I used to use Pyrodex RS in everything, and still like it, but I've stuck a ramrod deep into my hand on a couple of occasions loading a second shot because of the barrel being fouled after only one shot.

I switched to Blackhorn 209 and it's much better now loading on a fouled barrel. Still tight as a tick, but better.

For those guys who prefer a heavy lead bullet and ultra tight bores, is it possible to size your bore and send the measurements to a custom mould maker and have them make you a mould? If so, that'd involve casting, but might be an option.

Yes, I'm shooting an Omega. I've looked at some paper-patched lead/tin bullets. Performance appears exceptional but recoil would be substantial. Their smallest 50 caliber bullet is 500 grns.

 

[muddyboots]

90 Grains 777 Barnes 260 grain Mz. Awesome is all I can say. I shot a 200 lb 8 point in tip of front shoulder and recovered the bullet from under the hide on the opposite ham. Deer went about 75 yards with good blood. Shot several other deer with them. No issues.

 

[Dennis]

Noy going to happen. I want muzzleloader hunting to be muzzleloader hunting. I freely admit I'm stuck in the past, but MZ hunting was always basically a short-range (inside 100 yards) single-shot weapon. I want to keep it that way. That isn't to say I won't accept some concessions for better effectiveness though. I've switched to an inline instead of a side-hammer for more consistent ignitions, better weather resistance, and ease of mounting a scope (my eyesight has gotten so bad I can use open sights). I'll also use substitute powders (777) for less fouling. But I don't want to turn my MZ into a rifle. Besides, I have no use for a bullet designed for 150-200 yard shots. The vast majority of our shots are inside 50 yards, and most are at bow ranges. If it comes down to it, I'll shove a big chunk of lead down a barrel loaded with 777 (or BH209 if the price ever drops to realistic levels).

I'm definitely not a long range shooter. I don't think I've killed one past 40 yds with either of the bullets I mentioned. My setups are typically such that shots are close. Those bullets perform fine close up.

 

[BSK]

What worries me is the number of responses where the bullet is under the skin on the far side. That's what's giving us troubles. Because our shots are all close-range, often at a very steep downward angle, the entrance wound is high while the exit will be low. We need that low exit to produce a blood trail as it takes awhile to fill the chest before the high entrance wound begins to bleed outwardly. We never had this problem throwing huge chunks of lead. Bullets ALWAYS went through - 50 caliber hole in, 50 caliber hole out, and blood trails that looked like they were being poured out of a bucket.

If the Hornady bore-drivers aren't the ticket (the bullet we'll test next), we may be back to trying to find a Lyman bullet cast that has some type of Minnie Ball-like skirt that will expand into the rifling.

 

[Remi]

What worries me is the number of responses where the bullet is under the skin on the far side. That's what's giving us troubles. Because our shots are all close-range, often at a very steep downward angle, the entrance wound is high while the exit will be low. We need that low exit to produce a blood trail as it takes awhile to fill the chest before the high entrance wound begins to bleed outwardly. We never had this problem throwing huge chunks of lead. Bullets ALWAYS went through - 50 caliber hole in, 50 caliber hole out, and blood trails that looked like they were being poured out of a bucket.

If the Hornady bore-drivers aren't the ticket (the bullet we'll test next), we may be back to trying to find a Lyman bullet cast that has some type of Minnie Ball-like skirt that will expand into the rifling.

Not all bullets are created equal


Find some 300 or 400gr Barnes originals in .458"

Buy some Harvester .458" sabots


You'll never recover a bullet


Quit making this harder than it is. From what I gather you have ZERO personal experience with saboted bullets and you are constantly arguing with people that have experience with them.


Order the Barnes Originals, order the Harvester Crush rib .458" sabots and move forward, seriously.

 

[square]

I'm with pilchard. The barnes mz Spitfire ez 245 gr over 100 grains 777 fffg has always given me a pass through and blood trail when the deer didn't drop right there. They make a heavier bullet if you like. I always start with a clean barrel. That way the barrel is only fouled by one shot if I need to reload

 

[BSK]

Quit making this harder than it is. From what I gather you have ZERO personal experience with saboted bullets and you are constantly arguing with people that have experience with them.

And do you know why I have no personal experience shooting saboted bullets? Because I work with a number of hunting clubs, involving over 100 individual hunters, and I see lost deer after lost deer after lost deer - all to saboted bullets. And when a deer is found (usually with a tracking dog because there is no blood trail), it is the same story - bullet under the skin on the far side, no bleeding from the entrance hole. These MANY observations have seriously turned me off from saboted pistol bullets.

 

[Remi]

And do you know why I have no personal experience shooting saboted bullets? Because I work with a number of hunting clubs, involving over 100 individual hunters, and I see lost deer after lost deer after lost deer - all to saboted bullets. And when a deer is found (usually with a tracking dog because there is no blood trail), it is the same story - bullet under the skin on the far side, no bleeding from the entrance hole. These MANY observations have seriously turned me off from saboted pistol bullets.

And you have no personal experience. Every deer that's lost is hit perfectly, etc etc

The BoreLokt bullets will not compete with the Barnes Original in any form or fashion.


.458" Barnes are NOT PISTOL BULLETS. They are rifle bullets.


Quit making it harder than it is, buy the Barnes Originals, buy the .458" Harvester Sabots and move forward, seriously.

 

[Jcalder]

And you have no personal experience. Every deer that's lost is hit perfectly, etc etc

The BoreLokt bullets will not compete with the Barnes Original in any form or fashion.


.458" Barnes are NOT PISTOL BULLETS. They are rifle bullets.


Quit making it harder than it is, buy the Barnes Originals, buy the .458" Harvester Sabots and move forward, seriously.

Every lost deer was perfectly, don't you know this

 

[hammer33]

Here is a recipe that has worked great for me, though it is a pistol bullet in a sabot, in case you cant find another option you like.

300 GR hornady xtp or xtp MAG in a harvester crush rib sabot. Loads easy. Sabot doesn't melt into a crud ring when you fire. (still get powder crud ring using standard 100 gr pyrodex pellets but I can easily load 4 in a row with little or no accuracy issues)

The plain xtp is a softer pistol bullet designed for up to (going from memory so I might be off a little) 1500fps. It expands very well and creates a BIG blood trail. BUT it does fragment when hitting bone. Usually end up with about 250gr in one chunk and the rest in pieces. Deer run about 50-70 yds then they are out of hydraulic fluid and are laying at the end of the "red carpet".

The xtp MAG is a heavier constructed bullet for up to 2000fps +. I usually get pass throughs, good blood trails but not as massive as the non mag version. When I do recover a bullet, they mushroom very well, and retain about 90+ % of weight even through bone. Ive blasted them through both shoulders of a 200# hog. For some reason, I get more bang flops from the MAG version.
They aren't sexy like some of the all copper, aero points, or other formulas out there. But they are cheap, easy to find, usually in stock and give great performance at mz ranges. Now if I was trying to get max range out of a mz, I would look into some of the sexier options with aero tips and tapered bases.

 

[knightrider]

And do you know why I have no personal experience shooting saboted bullets? Because I work with a number of hunting clubs, involving over 100 individual hunters, and I see lost deer after lost deer after lost deer - all to saboted bullets. And when a deer is found (usually with a tracking dog because there is no blood trail), it is the same story - bullet under the skin on the far side, no bleeding from the entrance hole. These MANY observations have seriously turned me off from saboted pistol bullets.

The 458 is a different animal! I get complete pass thru on every deer, every angle so far out to 194 yards and in with the harvester pt gold bullets in a crushrib sabot. For your ranges and powder and angles a 458 barnes is gonna exit every time its not a pistol bullet. Those deer that arent recovered with pistol bullets you know they were all through the boiler room, cause no way they made a bad shot

 

[slabhead]

If the Hornady bore-drivers aren't the ticket (the bullet we'll test next), we may be back to trying to find a Lyman bullet cast that has some type of Minnie Ball-like skirt that will expand into the rifling.

Here's a Hornady bore driver FTX, 100gr 777 pellets, 60yd shot, straight facing neck shot. Recovered while field dressing. He ran less than 50 yards.

 

[Dennis]

@BSK If you are dead set on a bore size projectile, these look like a good option. I seriously doubt you would recover one:

50 Caliber 460 Grains - NO EXCUSES MUZZLELOADING BULLETS

Our bread and butter Muzzleloader bullet for most North American sized game. Our most poular selling 50 caliber bullet since it's inception more than 22 years ago. A real game stopper!

www.muzzleloading-bullets.com

 

[Bone Collector]

Prior to shooting smokeless I always used Barnes expanders. I recovered a lot of those just under the hide on the off side. But the entrance wounds left a lot of blood and the insides were destroyed. Never lost a deer with those, and I shot a lot of them.

I have been shooting expanders for a few years now. I don't shoot many deer with a ML but when I do I generally get a pass through. only exception was I shot one quartering away and it got hung in the offhand side in the hide. No blood, but he only ran 50 yds or so. The others blood everywhere.

 

[BSK]

@BSK If you are dead set on a bore size projectile, these look like a good option. I seriously doubt you would recover one:

50 Caliber 460 Grains - NO EXCUSES MUZZLELOADING BULLETS

Our bread and butter Muzzleloader bullet for most North American sized game. Our most poular selling 50 caliber bullet since it's inception more than 22 years ago. A real game stopper!

www.muzzleloading-bullets.com

Thanks Dennis! I'll look into those. I tried the Thor bullets, which are similarly sized. The first went down the barrel fine (.501), but loading a second with a black-powder fouled barrel proved very difficult. However, if I switch to 777 next year, fouling won't be as much of a problem for follow up shots.

 

[kbradley]

I asked about these in the Muzzleloader Forum and did not get positive responses.

I too am looking for a new MZ bullet. First, I freely admit I am stuck in the past. I grew up MZ hunting with Hawkin side-hammers that threw huge chunks of lead in front of real black powder. I've moved up to an inline MZ, but still like to throw huge chunks of lead. I'm still using real black powder but plan on switching to 777 for easier cleaning. For years I shot the 295 Powerbelts due to their full 50-caliber size, ease of loading, and incredible accuracy. However, the 295 Powerbelts go to pieces on impact with a deer. Five broadside hits on does at close range, none produced an exit wound, none produced a blood trail, and all five fragmented into almost powder inside the deer. Everyone in my camp switched up to the 348 Powerbelts while I moved up to the 405 Powerbelts. Problem solved. Full pass-throughs, good blood trails. And then Powerbelt stopped making them (as of last year). They're only going to be producing their crap 295 and 245 bullets. Why, I don't know.

Again, I'm stuck in the past, and absolutely refuse to shoot a pistol bullet in a sabot out of my MZ. My MZ is 50 caliber and I want to shoot a 50-caliber bullet that punches completely through a deer. Many of the specialize saboted MZ bullets being produced will not do that at "normal" MZ loads. I also refuse to turn my MZ into a modern rifle by using ultra-hot loads are smokeless powder. If that's the way we are going, let's do away with MZ season and just go right to modern centerfires.

I've been searching for a new MZ bullet for several years, as the 348 and 405 Powerbelts became more and more scarce. I've not found one yet. I could always go back to pounding huge chunks of lead down the barrel with a hammer (literally), but I'm hoping someone comes up with a bullet similar to the Powerbelt - a bullet that is full-sized but only engages the barrel's rifling at firing.

look at harvester .

 

[mike243]

Thanks Dennis! I'll look into those. I tried the Thor bullets, which are similarly sized. The first went down the barrel fine (.501), but loading a second with a black-powder fouled barrel proved very difficult. However, if I switch to 777 next year, fouling won't be as much of a problem for follow up shots.

Better shoot several because there is plenty of fouling with 777 also, have tried most of the subs and the only 1 to not give loading problems is Blackhorn. Bought a jar 2-3 years ago and dont practice except for 1 shot to ck accuracy before season

 

[BSK]

Better shoot several because there is plenty of fouling with 777 also, have tried most of the subs and the only 1 to not give loading problems is Blackhorn. Bought a jar 2-3 years ago and dont practice except for 1 shot to ck accuracy before season

Perhaps it is because everyone is using light loads, not magnum loads, the hunters in my family using 777 see almost no fouling in their barrels. One wet patch and one dry patch and their barrels are clean. With me and real black powder, after 10 minutes of scrubbing the barrel with a brass brush and some 30-patches later, still getting fouling out of the barrel.

 

[tdt5446]

Perhaps it is because everyone is using light loads, not magnum loads, the hunters in my family using 777 see almost no fouling in their barrels. One wet patch and one dry patch and their barrels are clean. With me and real black powder, after 10 minutes of scrubbing the barrel with a brass brush and some 30-patches later, still getting fouling out of the barrel.

Check out buffaloarms.com/muzzleloading-supplies/muzzleloadingbullets