My "unorthodox hunting" theory

[Snake]

OK, this is going to be a weird question, but something that has really been rattling around in my head for a couple of years. And it was brought to a head this year.

To set the stage, we've killed exactly 108 bucks off our property over 37 years. Ranking the bucks highest to lowest by rack score, every hunter who regularly hunts the property is represented all over the list. With one exception - the Top 10. They are all my kills. Now I would love to pat myself on the back and think, "Dang, I'm the MAN! I'm a great hunter!" However, the problem is that I'm not. In fact, the older I get the more I've turned into the laziest hunter in the group. I fidget in stand, I read books in stand, I send and read text messages, and I'm usually so bored after a few hours I'm out of my stand by 9 AM. I do not even come close to putting in the most hunting hours.

Now some might say, Well, because of what you do for a living and all your research on habitat/deer movement patterns, you understand how/when deer will move through." There is some truth to that, but more about that later. Someone could say, "You run the cameras so you have the most knowledge about how deer are using the property that year." True also, but before each hunt, I go over with all the hunters each of the "shooter" bucks and where they're being photographed and what I believe their travel patterns are. So every hunter knows where every shooter buck frequents. But here's the part that has produced my theory in question. What started about 10 or so years ago as a joke, has turned into a tradition, and that is, no matter how many hunters are in camp, I always choose the stand I'm going to hunt last. Before each hunt, all the hunters gather together and start choosing stands. No matter how much I'm pressured to choose early, I always wait until everybody else has chosen their stand, and then I choose mine. Quite often (almost always) other hunters have chosen the stands I had as my top priority stands. This forces me to choose something I didn't have on my list, so I often choose a truly unorthodox stand for the conditions. And that's where things started getting weird. Ever since I started choosing last, and often choosing unorthodox locations, the big bucks started piling up. Some of the kills are just "crazy wrong" for the timing and situation.

So that's where this "unorthodox hunting" theory started to develop in my head. Why am I killing the best buck on the property almost every year - and very quickly, usually in the first week of MZ - when I'm always choosing stands I didn't really want to hunt or have any confidence in? Could it be something to do with the fact I'm NOT hunting the obvious hotspots?

Has anyone experienced something similar? Does anyone actually use this as a type of hunting strategy? I could be totally wrong, and I could just be the luckiest hunter in the world, but luck doesn't keep coming around year after year after year. There is a pattern here and I'm trying to figure it out.

Could be God is blessing you for your unselfishness !! Never and I mean never count God out of an conclusion ! I know I know but I'm serious brother. It's happened to me as well brother . You definitely put more time into this property than anyone...right ? So it's deserving you benefit even though your giving up the best stands. Think on it brother .

 

[megalomaniac]

I hunt outside the box when I'm a guest on other properties. I'll hunt from roads, within sight of camp, in a little half acre block of woods pinched between a creek and a major 4 land highway, etc.

I usually don't kill anything, so perhaps my strategy doesn't work doing that.

On the other hand, both my bucks over 180 inches were killed doing just that. Both were the largest bucks ever taken on those 2 properties (and probably still are).

On my TN farms, I also hunt rather unorthodoxically. But its just the opposite. I hunt the most obvious areas where there are the most deer. And I've had three 4.5yo bucks in range so far just this year.

But the difference is pressure. The other properties as a guest are hunted hard all season long, while my own farms are left untouched until the rut.

 

[Bushape]

OK, this is going to be a weird question, but something that has really been rattling around in my head for a couple of years. And it was brought to a head this year.

To set the stage, we've killed exactly 108 bucks off our property over 37 years. Ranking the bucks highest to lowest by rack score, every hunter who regularly hunts the property is represented all over the list. With one exception - the Top 10. They are all my kills. Now I would love to pat myself on the back and think, "Dang, I'm the MAN! I'm a great hunter!" However, the problem is that I'm not. In fact, the older I get the more I've turned into the laziest hunter in the group. I fidget in stand, I read books in stand, I send and read text messages, and I'm usually so bored after a few hours I'm out of my stand by 9 AM. I do not even come close to putting in the most hunting hours.

Now some might say, Well, because of what you do for a living and all your research on habitat/deer movement patterns, you understand how/when deer will move through." There is some truth to that, but more about that later. Someone could say, "You run the cameras so you have the most knowledge about how deer are using the property that year." True also, but before each hunt, I go over with all the hunters each of the "shooter" bucks and where they're being photographed and what I believe their travel patterns are. So every hunter knows where every shooter buck frequents. But here's the part that has produced my theory in question. What started about 10 or so years ago as a joke, has turned into a tradition, and that is, no matter how many hunters are in camp, I always choose the stand I'm going to hunt last. Before each hunt, all the hunters gather together and start choosing stands. No matter how much I'm pressured to choose early, I always wait until everybody else has chosen their stand, and then I choose mine. Quite often (almost always) other hunters have chosen the stands I had as my top priority stands. This forces me to choose something I didn't have on my list, so I often choose a truly unorthodox stand for the conditions. And that's where things started getting weird. Ever since I started choosing last, and often choosing unorthodox locations, the big bucks started piling up. Some of the kills are just "crazy wrong" for the timing and situation.

So that's where this "unorthodox hunting" theory started to develop in my head. Why am I killing the best buck on the property almost every year - and very quickly, usually in the first week of MZ - when I'm always choosing stands I didn't really want to hunt or have any confidence in? Could it be something to do with the fact I'm NOT hunting the obvious hotspots?

Has anyone experienced something similar? Does anyone actually use this as a type of hunting strategy? I could be totally wrong, and I could just be the luckiest hunter in the world, but luck doesn't keep coming around year after year after year. There is a pattern here and I'm trying to figure it out.

Not trying to be insulting but I find it hard to believe that your data doesn't suggest some rhyme or reason as to why you are experiencing this.
How deep into the season were you when these 10 bucks were killed? How many times had those stands been hunted prior? Were these ladder stands? Shooting houses? I'd really like to know what variables your data can be used to rule out, as in none of the bucks were killed with a S wind, or none killed in dry years, etc. I always appreciate your posts.

 

[hbg1]

When you say unorthodox, what way do you mean this? That could take many shapes; not a travel route, a location close to a road or camp site, or marginal wind direction just to name a few.

I have a only a few trees I hunt multiple times even on property I've lived on. I scout and hunt, it doesn't matter how many years I have had access on the farm I'm hunting, I constantly scout. This method often puts me in strange places.

I will say this, most of my really big deer if they are alone; I am almost always in a situation with a marginal wind for that spot. I've just learned over the years how to move 20 or so yards to skirt my scent just past the deer. Most of the big deer are traveling with the wind blowing across the front of their face in these scenarios which puts me on the verge of being smelled but I'm always on the downwind side of the travel route by a hair. For this reason I like about a 4-5 mph wind that's fairly steady. And this is the main reason I always pack in and pack out my climbing set up. I will sometimes hunt the same area quite a few times until I kill the deer that's using that area but many times I can see every tree I've sat in and sometimes they are just 30-50 yards depending upon the wind that day.

So I would say in most cases I'm in an unorthodox location for wind directions in many cases.

Do you think this holds true for properties with minimal hunting pressure?

 

[Omega]

There are many areas where hunting is not allowed, and of course when it's off season that deer are less skittish of us, sometimes letting us get close to them, within reason. But as soon as you pay more attention to them, they bound off. I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but when I was going through a course, they taught us sentry takedown, and one of the things they cautioned against was not staring at your target, but to use your peripheral vision because animals (we are one) have a sense that they are being watched/hunted. Ever have the hair on the back of your neck stand on end? That is our unconscious mind warning us to something it picked up on that our conscious mind did not. Maybe deer you have been taking were because you were not "actively" hunting?

 

[Tn_Va_Hunter]

Seriously. Your scent is a known to them. You're all over the place. But you have a pattern and a job to do. So what I think I'm seeing here is, your buddies need do take baths and walk to their spot in their crocks. A

 

[UTGrad]

Maybe the one defining hot spots and low probability spots is wrong when defining such stands lol

 

[Harold Money jr]

First off, I'm struck by how generous you are with your family and information you've gathered. I like hearing about the Family land and your stories. Congratulations on keeping a true hunting tradition going.
My answer to your question is that if I'm honest, the majority of deer I kill aren't doing exactly what I expected. The wind didn't blow where I expected it to at least for awhile during every hunt. I believe deer are a LOT more random than we want to admit. At least the deer around my place can be random. But, I try in my mind to make sense of it all, most times I'm wrong and the deer still come by albeit from a different direction than I anticipated. Then again your family might be doing things to negatively impact their chances. Great thought provoking question.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I have no idea? But its very interesting to study and ponder the possibilities. Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.

 

[BSK]

When you say unorthodox, what way do you mean this? That could take many shapes; not a travel route, a location close to a road or camp site, or marginal wind direction just to name a few.

I would say "unorthodox" in that, everybody else is choosing the stands near the most buck camera action, and/or the stands near the hottest sign. I'm choosing something that isn't anywhere near as "obvious" of a hotspot.

In addition, you are spot-on concerning your comment about a stand close to camp. Three of the Top 10 bucks fell from stands within 150 yards of camp. And our "camp" is a cabin that often has 20+ people in it, kids running around outside screaming, a small party is going on the porches, etc. Hunting from those stands, I can hear the conversations on the porch.

 

[BSK]

How to do select the best of the "worst" stands?

It may be that you change the selection criteria in your mind to try to optimize the "best of the worst" which is somehow playing into the stand choice and resulting success.

This exactly. But why is this so successful? And interestingly, we all have about the same sighting rate of older bucks. Everyone is seeing 2 1/2+ year-old bucks at about the same rate. My "late" stand choices are not producing more older buck sightings. They just produce the best buck on the property, year after year.

Also how many stands are you talking about? How many are taken and how many are left?

It has gone up every year. We are currently at 57 total stands: 6 condos and 51 ladder stands. Usually 5-6 hunters.

 

[BSK]

Yep, this is exactly what I was thinking. The least obvious spots are probably also the least pressured.

There may be something to that, but this year was the year that I finally had to concede something is up and this is a pattern. It's opening day. So pressure is just being applied for the first time that day. Although we don't do a lot of food plot hunting, we have condos over food plots for rainy day hunting. It's going to rain hard so we all choose a condo stand. I purposefully choose the condo over the food plot the buck everyone is chasing has NEVER been photographed in. I want others to have the best chance at him. Yet on the food plot he's never been photographed in, here he is and I kill him. WTF?

 

[backyardtndeer]

There may be something to that, but this year was the year that I finally had to concede something is up and this is a pattern. It's opening day. So pressure is just being applied for the first time that day. Although we don't do a lot of food plot hunting, we have condos over food plots for rainy day hunting. It's going to rain hard so we all choose a condo stand. I purposefully choose the condo over the food plot the buck everyone is chasing has NEVER been photographed in. I want others to have the best chance at him. Yet on the food plot he's never been photographed in, here he is and I kill him. WTF?

Could he have patterned you checking cards on cams or possibly any other activity? Was that camera just not in the best place to catch him there in that area and he was using that area all along? Maybe he knew that camera was there and avoided it. Surely you have some kind of data that will be a clue as to why he was there.

Or maybe it's ask just coincidence, and the right die just happened to lead him that way.

 

[SJS]

Interesting take BSK. We've killed 108 deer on our 132 acres in 22 years. I've haven't always killed the biggest like you, but I'm right up there. The theory I go with is after my boys pick there stand I pick the stand with the most favorable wind direction. Most times than not I score a decent or really good buck. A stand is only as good as the wind direction. This is the one I took a week ago. Wind direction was everything.

 

[BSK]

Seriously. Your scent is a known to them. You're all over the place. But you have a pattern and a job to do. So what I think I'm seeing here is, your buddies need do take baths and walk to their spot in their crocks. A

This is a second theory I'm working on. I'm definitely the one on the property all year round. I'm working food plots, checking stands, doing habitat work, working the cameras, etc. Is it possible to condition deer to your personal scent? I'm beginning to believe it is. Years ago, I used to be very anal about scent when checking cameras. Cameras only go where I can drive an ATV right to them. I used to even wear a plastic rainsuit driving to the cameras in case any branch/brush/grass rubbed against me on the drive in. I would wear surgical gloves when touching the camera. But since this idea of conditioning deer to my scent has popped into my head, the only scent control I use is driving my ATV to the camera. In fact, now I'll linger around the camera, sitting on my ATV and enjoying the outdoors. I'll hit my vape and watch how the terrain is influencing wind movement at ground level (a vape cloud stays together and can be visually followed for well over 100 yards). I touch the camera with my bare hands, and I've watch deer on camera sniffing and even licking the camera. They definitely know my personal scent. I no longer take any scent precautions when simply working on the property, doing habitat work etc.

And I tell you what, I rarely get busted by deer anymore. I get busted at a FAR lower rate than the other hunters.

 

[swampbadger]

Thinking back. I believe every buck I have hung on the wall was killed the first time I hunted any particular stand (that year)

And the two I killed while walking was the first time i was in those areas (that year)

with that being said, I don't hunt any of those farms these days as I've lost all of them. So the farms have changed over the years but the one constant is all my best bucks were from hunting each stand for the first time.

Never that I can recall (terrible memory) have I killed a target or mature buck after hunting the stands multiple times.

But for the last 5 years I only hunt two diff stands on one small property and I haven't killed anything to talk about

This! First time in and being lethal when given those rare opportunities are huge.

And quite possibly those bigger older bucks know how to avoid pressure and bed in weird spots that are too close to the road, don't have a good view or are watching the main trail every other hunter uses to access the property!

 

[BSK]

Interesting take BSK. We've killed 108 deer on our 132 acres in 22 years. I've haven't always killed the biggest like you, but I'm right up there. The theory I go with is after my boys pick there stand I pick the stand with the most favorable wind direction. Most times than not I score a decent or really good buck. A stand is only as good as the wind direction. This is the one I took a week ago. Wind direction was everything.

Interesting ideas SJS. I probably play the wind more than any other hunter.

And great buck! Congrats!

 

[Savage]

This is a second theory I'm working on. I'm definitely the one on the property all year round. I'm working food plots, checking stands, doing habitat work, working the cameras, etc. Is it possible to condition deer to your personal scent? I'm beginning to believe it is. Years ago, I used to be very anal about scent when checking cameras. Cameras only go where I can drive an ATV right to them. I used to even wear a plastic rainsuit driving to the cameras in case any branch/brush/grass rubbed against me on the drive in. I would wear surgical gloves when touching the camera. But since this idea of conditioning deer to my scent has popped into my head, the only scent control I use is driving my ATV to the camera. In fact, now I'll linger around the camera, sitting on my ATV and enjoying the outdoors. I'll hit my vape and watch how the terrain is influencing wind movement at ground level (a vape cloud stays together and can be visually followed for well over 100 yards). I touch the camera with my bare hands, and I've watch deer on camera sniffing and even licking the camera. They definitely know my personal scent. I no longer take any scent precautions when simply working on the property, doing habitat work etc.

And I tell you what, I rarely get busted by deer anymore. I get busted at a FAR lower rate than the other hunters.

There may be something to this…

I have been busted by deer that we never see on camera again on my in laws farm. My father in law has talked about seeing the same deer several times while out working or feeding hay. We know they condition to a tractor….

 

[BSK]

Thinking back. I believe every buck I have hung on the wall was killed the first time I hunted any particular stand (that year)

Without question this part of the equation. I would have to look back through my records, but I would guarantee most of these Top 10 bucks fell the first time anyone had hunted that stand that year.

 

[BSK]

Not trying to be insulting but I find it hard to believe that your data doesn't suggest some rhyme or reason as to why you are experiencing this.

I've searched through the data and just can't find the pattern.

How deep into the season were you when these 10 bucks were killed?

Most were killed in the first 5 days of MZ season, but several on the 2nd weekend of MZ.

How many times had those stands been hunted prior? Were these ladder stands? Shooting houses? I'd really like to know what variables your data can be used to rule out, as in none of the bucks were killed with a S wind, or none killed in dry years, etc. I always appreciate your posts.

Almost exclusive to ladder stands (except this year's buck) and most often the first time the stand was hunted that year.