Food Plots Old field new plot

[Bgoodman30]

I've got two new plots I want to start in old fields. The fields are tops with a 5.9ph. They are mowed once a year in the fall and have lots of woody plants.. The kind of field that you break an ankle walking in. The 2 fields are about 7 acres total and soil test recommends 2500# per acre for clover and 1750# for fall plots.

I have been planting about 1.5 acres at a time in the fall spraying and throwing oats/wheat/clover with moderate success.. Its hard access but I was planning on taking a tractor up there soon and discing, lime and spraying. I would like to get rid of the woody mess and establish clover and fill in fall plots as needed. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Popcorn]

I would seriously consider not disking! Spray, sow, mow yes but establishing spring planted clover can be tough. Leaving standing matter or mowing it down on your seed will help preserve moisture, keep the soil cool and reduce weeds and competing plants.
I would also consider pelletized lime for a faster response and less tonnage per acre.
I would also include tillage radishes and turnips to my fall planting or clover and wheat.

 

[Popcorn]

If I felt I had to till the ground to improve the rough nature then I would forego the clover and plant a soil building crop for summer then get my clover in next fall!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I would seriously consider not disking! Spray, sow, mow yes but establishing spring planted clover can be tough. Leaving standing matter or mowing it down on your seed will help preserve moisture, keep the soil cool and reduce weeds and competing plants.
I would also consider pelletized lime for a faster response and less tonnage per acre.
I would also include tillage radishes and turnips to my fall planting or clover and wheat.

Agree on everything here. Yes - establishing clover in fall is best. I'd lime and fertilize now, then spray, sow, then mow for spring (and use same method for fall planting). Maybe a mix of heavy buckwheat and some sorghum this spring. For the fall - yes, wheat, oats, clovers (say 2-3 different varieties), and also some radishes and turnips to help grow deeper and break up the soil. You can then frost seed clover into the clover plot next spring.

As far as the spray, as woody as it is, for spring i'd use gly for sure. Maybe some Triclopyr depending on timing of spraying and sowing (can't remember if there is residual on triclopyr). We now only use that on TSI. Best of luck and keep us updated

 

[Ski]

I'll play devils advocate and say till baby till! I've given an honest multiple year effort to no till throw & mow, and have nothing but years of mostly failed plots and a shed full of chemicals to show for it. At the very best it has worked poorly on established plots and not at all trying to establish new ones.

I am not disputing the pros of no till nor am I arguing with anyone who has had success with it. All I'm saying is that I've heard all the pros of no till and cons of tilling, and with a real effort to realize them myself I have not been able to see either. Tilling works very well for me and no till does not. It obviously works better for others and that's great. But for me tilling is still king.

 

[BSK]

I'll play devils advocate and say till baby till! I've given an honest multiple year effort to no till throw & mow, and have nothing but years of mostly failed plots and a shed full of chemicals to show for it. At the very best it has worked poorly on established plots and not at all trying to establish new ones.

I am not disputing the pros of no till nor am I arguing with anyone who has had success with it. All I'm saying is that I've heard all the pros of no till and cons of tilling, and with a real effort to realize them myself I have not been able to see either. Tilling works very well for me and no till does not. It obviously works better for others and that's great. But for me tilling is still king.

I think a lot depends on initial soil quality and location. I've got years of no-till, followed by years of tilling, and then going back to different version of no-tilling experience. However, I'm working with a particular type of soil: ridge-top locations, very dry, very thin, very poor, very rocky soils. In that situation, the right style of no-till definitely works better for summer crops. The problem is dry periods. Tilled soil will evaporate soil moisture very quickly. In tilled soil, I would go from total water saturation of 6-8" deep to experiencing crop failure after just 3-4 weeks of hot, sunny weather with no rain. Not the case with the right no-till.

Fall planting have been more hit or miss depending on soil prep. In years with adequate fall moisture (which we haven't seen for several years), tilling produced spectacularly successful plots, with far less weed competition and lower seed costs (no-till requires higher seeding rates). On the other hand, the fall months are traditionally our driest months, and they can fail very quickly due to soil moisture loss. Below is a picture of one of my tilled plots in 2020, a year with good fall rainfall. It was tilled and planted in mid-August. The Buckwheat (and crimson clover and wheat underneath) are doing spectacularly by late September, with little weed competition.

But again, it really comes down to soil quality and location. If I were working with better, deeper soils than I have, tilling might end up being the right choice.

 

[Ski]

I think a lot depends on initial soil quality and location. I've got years of no-till, followed by years of tilling, and then going back to different version of no-tilling experience. However, I'm working with a particular type of soil: ridge-top locations, very dry, very thin, very poor, very rocky soils. In that situation, the right style of no-till definitely works better for summer crops. The problem is dry periods. Tilled soil will evaporate soil moisture very quickly. In tilled soil, I would go from total water saturation of 6-8" deep to experiencing crop failure after just 3-4 weeks of hot, sunny weather with no rain. Not the case with the right no-till.

Fall planting have been more hit or miss depending on soil prep. In years with adequate fall moisture (which we haven't seen for several years), tilling produced spectacularly successful plots, with far less weed competition and lower seed costs (no-till requires higher seeding rates). On the other hand, the fall months are traditionally our driest months, and they can fail very quickly due to soil moisture loss. Below is a picture of one of my tilled plots in 2020, a year with good fall rainfall. It was tilled and planted in mid-August. The Buckwheat (and crimson clover and wheat underneath) are doing spectacularly by late September, with little weed competition.

But again, it really comes down to soil quality and location. If I were working with better, deeper soils than I have, tilling might end up being the right choice.

Yeah my plots are in big woods but not on top. They're either on shelves or in the bottoms. Soil isn't deep in any of them before hitting hard clay but I've not had any real issues with topsoil drying out.

The no till stuff just hasn't produced. I sure wanted it to and boy have I tried. But it doesn't seem to be in the cards for my place.