Too much data for me and dont hunt stands anymore. I just like to hunt. I cant tell my success has suffered at all going to still hunting.
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Over-hunting stands
- Thread starter BSK
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BSK
Well-Known Member
WHAT? Blasphemy! There's never too much data.
Snake
Well-Known Member
When I was working and collecting data for a specific issue we may be having and also getting production sheets the following morning to put in production I'd usually have to ask midnight operators for missing or incorrect data . Some was good at giving times for outage others not so much but the term I heard most was " I just didn't want to write in every little thing " . My response " too much data I can deal with not enough is what I can't deal with because somethings missing and I can weed out unnecessary data .WHAT? Blasphemy! There's never too much data.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Consistency of data collection is critical. It needs to be collected the same way using the same criteria or it's meaningless, or even worse, misleading.
I'm just glad I set up a thorough data collection strategy before the first year we started hunting our property. The data has been collected the same way for 35 years. Looking back, I would change a few things from the start (now that I know what's important), but I'm not changing midstream.
Snake
Well-Known Member
BSK
Well-Known Member
Even if the wrong data is being collected, as long as it is collected consistently using the same criteria, if will often display the accurate trend. For instance, a landowner collects their photo census data only at feeders, or only at scrapes. Both of these photo census locations will display skewed data due to unrepresentative use of these sites (excess bucks at scrapes, excess does at feeders). So the numbers generated won't be representative of the property. But if the data is collected exactly that way over a number of years, the trends in data are often still accurate (going up, going down, staying the same).
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I'm just curious as to why you "hate" using a climber so much?
Probably 75% of my deer hunting is done from a climbing stand, in large part for the purpose of quick mobility and the opportunities to hunt new spots very EFFECTIVELY.
By "effectively", I mean being able to slip in to a new spot (same day, during the deer season) without causing much disturbance. This is much harder to impossible with most ladder stands. "Effectively" also means being able to get much higher above the ground-level scent line than ladder stands allow.
IMO, "on average" sitting say 23 feet high (probably my average height to hunt) is a huge advantage (on average) over being 15 to 17 feet high (like most ladder stands). Also, most ladder stands mislead regarding how high the hunter is sitting. How far is the platform from the ground? 17 feet to the rail may be only 14 feet to the platform. I'm usually hunting 23 feet from the ground to my climber's "platform".
"Younger"?
I'm older than you and not in near as good physical shape.
I find using climbers physically "easy",
perhaps even overall "easier" on an annual basis.
Pain in the butt to be moving around ladder stands,
and I will argue it's typically more dangerous than correctly using a climber.
Snake
Well-Known Member
The climbing part is realitively easy but carrying it in is the bad part especially if it's a long haul.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Typically, I'm carrying @ 18 lbs more using a climber vs. hunting from a ladder stand. To what extent this is physically harder, even for my typical "long haul", I just add 5 minutes to the hike time, don't walk as fast. Works for me.
I also add an extra 10 minutes for climb time (compared to hunting a permanent stand).
This is just really not that hard for even an older person if they're in half-decent physical shape (with no significant physical disabilities).
Truth be known, the "hardest" part for most might just be forcing themselves to set their alarm 15 minutes earlier?
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
In another type of way, what I find "harder" than using climbers is the annual re-locating & servicing of 50 ladder stands. Saying 50 because that's probably about the number needed to equal the "fresh" location aspect of daily relocating with a climber (over the course of a deer season).
Sasquatch Boogie Outdoors
Well-Known Member
I'm 50, in good condition, and use both hang-on and climber (less climber) and the reason is a tender shoulder. For some reason it has become painful to use the climber. I self film so it's 40-50 lbs. each trip with the climber. I love the challenge of climbers and hang and hunts with sticks and hang-on just don't like my old man pain.
Snake
Well-Known Member
I do have a bad back is why I was saying what I did . That extra 20 lbs is a killer if it's a long haul but I'm a tree man , just don't feel comfortable on the ground .
James72
Active Member
I stopped hunting the early season on the property I hunt several years ago to minimize pressure. I plant food plots in the early fall and hang cell cameras to monitor deer activity and hopefully identify a mature buck or two. I have 3 or 4 stands I primarily hunt every year, but I stay out until rut activity picks up on my cameras (usually 1st or 2nd week of muzzleloader). I rotate between those stands depending on wind direction and typically don't hunt one stand more than 5 or 6 sits in one season. I do agree the first couple of sits provide the best opportunity.
What's your logic for being so high? I always find it interesting how others approach a hunt and why.
For me height plays second fiddle to cover, and there's a point where too high makes the shot angle really iffy for archery. With a gun it's a different story. I like being way up with a gun. I can see farther from up high and never get noticed when I'm 30ft ish up.
My favorite way to hunt is from the ground. I scout/hunt by sitting, moving, sitting. It's worked out on several bucks and they're usually very close shots with the bow. Best yet I don't have to compensate or aim weird because of steep shot angle.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Getting higher allows for my scent to become more diluted at nearby ground level. Wind direction & very localized thermals are constantly changing. Often, a steady directional wind will blow your scent over downwind deer instead of just spooking them (as when you're at ground level or in a ladder stand).
The higher you are above ground, generally the less deer are to be alarmed by your scent.
Every situation/set-up is different.
Some are more suited for hunting on the ground.
Some trees can utilize a hang-on but not a climber.
And many trees won't allow me to go as high as I'd typically like (at least a little above 20 ft).
You partially answered your own question: Height is "cover".
But in many cases, being higher up does not allow one to see farther, often only allows one to be more visually camouflaged to nearby deer, as well as being more above the scent line.
This season I killed 16 Whitetail with my bow bow in 51 sits.
Tennessee, Illinois, Alabama. Most were first time sits.
Last season 20 bow kills in 68 sits.
2020-2021 70 sits for 19 bow kills.
Almost exclusively public land.
Want to know how I do this?
I SCOUT right now! I find well worn trails and pinch points while the woods are DEAD!
Much easier to see features.
Then I hunt multiple stand sites for multiple winds in multiple doe group areas.
Tennessee, Illinois, Alabama. Most were first time sits.
Last season 20 bow kills in 68 sits.
2020-2021 70 sits for 19 bow kills.
Almost exclusively public land.
Want to know how I do this?
I SCOUT right now! I find well worn trails and pinch points while the woods are DEAD!
Much easier to see features.
Then I hunt multiple stand sites for multiple winds in multiple doe group areas.
BSK
Well-Known Member
They are dangerous (even with more modern ones, I have had them slip/fall repeatedly, and they never feel stable once in place), they make a lot of noise going up and down the tree, they take forever to get into place, I always break a sweat using them, they are heavy to carry, and they require specific "clean" trunked trees to use.
Their only advantages are mobility and the potential to get higher than a ladder stand, although I rarely have a problem with deer seeing me and spooking even in 12-foot ladders.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
That was true back in the days when you tried & used the original "Baker" tree stand.
Not the case with most climbing stands today.
The danger is mitigated by always wearing a safety harness while climbing/descending.
Knock on wood, but one of the worst falls I've experienced was when my foot missed a rung on a ladder stand, and I fell @ 10 feet. I wasn't wearing a safety harness, since it was "just a ladder stand". Another bad fall from a step breaking while using a hang-on stand, I was very lucky to fall @ 20 feet and only broke ribs.
Have also had some close calls with danger in placing & moving ladders stands, the activities of which have been far more dangerous than my using climbers.
IMO, much of the dislike for climbing stands is due to never using them enough to master their use, both safely and quietly. Wearing a safety harness, climbing stands are absolutely safer than using ladder stands without wearing a safety harness (climbing, sitting, descending).
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily.
I can typically climb quietly, and on cold mornings, usually much quieter than climbing a typical metal ladder stand, which is bad about emitting a very loud, deer-spooking metallic "pop" on those great cold, clear mornings
Nearby deer seem to just think I'm a big raccoon climbing a tree and don't spook from my climbing. By contrast, a ladder stand's metallic "pop" badly spooks them.With experience, you should typically be able to QUIETLY climb over 20 ft in @ 10 minutes.
But you are correct, this is several minutes longer just climbing up a 15 ft ladder.
I've learned to dress appropriately for hiking & carrying them.
For my typical 1/2 to 3/4-mile hike in, I simply allow an extra 5 minutes to walk slower, and not break a sweat.
My typical carrying in of a climber adds 18 lbs to my back.
But I often leave a climber out in a general hunting area, re-locating @ 1pm, then coming back the next morning to hunt where I had placed that climber the preceding afternoon. This re-location is often only 50 to 100 yds from my perch on the prior day. I only stay on the same stand all day some of the time; most of the time, re-locate in the early afternoon.
With 2 or 3 climbers, one or two being left out most of time, you actually only pack in/out around half or less your long hikes into an area.
Correct, you have less choices in which trees you may use compared to either a ladder or a hang-on. This is why I use other type setups @ 1/4 the time. However, many trees "unsuitable" for climbing can be "prepared" months in advance to make them suitable. Late January thru March are excellent times to not just scout for the next season, but to prepare some climbing trees that would otherwise be unsuitable.
I do use ladder stands some of the time.
But find myself just as often hunting on the ground (either still-hunting or in a popup blind).
Weather conditions, rut timing, all circumstances collectively determine the day's tactics.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
The real trick to more successfully & enjoyably using climbers may be via simply using them a lot (experience), and giving yourself an extra 15-20 minutes (typically) for the walk in carrying & then climbing.
When I know I'm using a climber in the morning, I just routinely set my clock @ 20 minutes earlier, start walking @ 20 minutes earlier. If you pack out your climber, you will also need to allow extra time to get back to your truck (or house or atv, etc.). Descending is typically quicker, but then you have to pack up, so there's @ 10 minutes more time than coming down a ladder and packing up less.
I've also used hang-on stands a lot in the past, and still do at times. But rarely do I pack them in to hunt same day. Planning on trying the saddle option this fall, just to have more same-day "options".
When I know I'm using a climber in the morning, I just routinely set my clock @ 20 minutes earlier, start walking @ 20 minutes earlier. If you pack out your climber, you will also need to allow extra time to get back to your truck (or house or atv, etc.). Descending is typically quicker, but then you have to pack up, so there's @ 10 minutes more time than coming down a ladder and packing up less.
I've also used hang-on stands a lot in the past, and still do at times. But rarely do I pack them in to hunt same day. Planning on trying the saddle option this fall, just to have more same-day "options".
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