Poll on deer hunting activity

[Headhunter]

BSK posted about KY
" Hunting pressure drives the deer nocturnal after that. I love TN's long seasons, which spread hunting pressure out and gives many opportunities to hunt different time periods." That argument holds no water with me at all. Same thing in Tennessee, just our LONGGGGGGG gun season makes Tennessee deer behave like vampires for almost all of the year. I agree the intense gun season in KY makes them skittish fairly quickly, but the short muzzleloader before is a great time to hunt and the last muzzleloader is to. In my 25+ years experience hunting all over this state deer know what is happening and after the first week or so of December it gets as tough or tougher in Tennessee to kill a buck, especailly a good buck than it is KY after the first week of gun season.

The last muzzleloader in KY we saw tons of deer and many bucks and the area we hunt is absolutely hammered during gun season.
That won't happen in Tennessee because the deer are hunted so long with a gun. I have nothing against gun hunting, I own way to many, reload way to much, shoot to much, invest to much money and love to kill a deer with a gun, but it does not take a rocket scientist to see what gun hunting pressure, especially more than 2 months of gun hunting does to deer, especially bucks. Does are affected the same way when they targeted also.

 

[Beekeeper]

I usually only see 3 or 4 different bucks at the farm where I live and 3 or 4 others on the lease where I hunt. I know, from sign and trail cam pics, that there are 4 to 5 times that many bucks using the areas that I hunt. The 4800 acre lease I am on cost $500.00 per year and we usually have about 50 members that hunt.

This property is mostly wooded with about 80% of it in planted pines. This property is very thick and most shots are taken at less than 60 yards.

We follow state regulations and we usually kill between 75 and 100 deer a year. Of these it is about 50/50 bucks to doe. We usually take 3 or 4 bucks that would score 115 to 140. I do not think reducing the buck limit would help our age structure or improve our buck to doe ratio. The folks in middle and west TN should get on or start leases that have enough property so that they can manage it the way they want and enforce a 1 or 2 buck limit. I don't think that any buck I kill in ET would impact their efforts.

If yawl are killing 50 bucks that are 3 1/2 or older thats awesome but if u are killing 25 bucks out of that 50 that are 2 1/2 or younger i guarantee you could change your age structure regardless of antler score. This property you have described are not gonna produce your highest scoring bucks but it can be done with wait for it - allowing them to mature and having lots of food for them. I have seen it work on property just as you describe but on a smaller acreage.

What you say has merit but most of the folks that hunt on this lease are not hunting to kill old mature bucks. They are hunting because they enjoy it and couldn't care less if the deer they kill is 2.5 or 5.5. They would be excited about killing a large older buck but that isn't the thing that drives them. Different people are motivated by different things and most of these guys wouldn't spend $500 if they were only allowed one buck even if they have never killed over one in a year. We enjoy the hunt and after we determined it was not a contest we enjoy even more.

 

[MUP]

Still amazing to me, to see that many deer day in and day out, and on top of that, add 7-10 bucks a sighting? I've said it before, but I'm lucky to see a buck or two, usually, during the season, with a high of about 4, maybe 5 different ones in an extremely good year.

Wow! Thats tough!

Yep,thats tuff huntin

Welcome to my SE TN world of huntin'. Yet, I've managed to be quite succesful over the past 8 yrs or so, killing a decent buck every year since that far back. Some 3-1/2 yr olds and some 2-1/2, with a button added in the mix with a bow last season....I thought it was a doe, but it ate really good.

All this on my property of about 50 acres. My family owns about 150 acres, all bordering each other that is private, but I only hunt my land, which makes it all the sweeter.

And that's a key point MUP. You make the best of your situation. Instead of whining about how your area isn't like IL, you make the best of what your area has to offer, whatever that is, and enjoy what it can realistically produce.

In all my years of hunting our land, I've only seen 2 140 class 10pts, and a very close to 130 class 8pt while actually in the woods. That makes taking one of those bucks, even if it's only one to date, such a grand thing in my eyes. I've had my opportunites at the other two, but failed to get it done for various reasons, but the one I have gotten is a real trophy in my eyes.

 

[Winchester]

I bet if you could put those bucks on a map of where they were killed, 90% would be within a mile of the Duck, Tennessee, or Buffalo River Bottoms. The Buffalo and Duck River Bottoms are some of the most productive agricultural ground in TN. At one time, "Big Bottom" (much of which is now the Duck River Unit of Tennessee National) was the largest bottomland under one fence in the entire state (20,000+ acres).

I looked at the USDA crop maps, and Humphreys Co. has about the same or less acreage in crops than a lot of counties in TN. My bet would be large land holding and big leases in the area that practice trigger control is playing a major factor in the area.

Many large landholdings any many QDM clubs in Humphreys is part of the reason it has a good buck age structure (although no better than Hickman, Houston or Perry Counties). In addition, hunter density has declined dramatically over the last 15 years. All of the timber company land that used to be open to the public has all been sold off, and the better hunting conditions in East TN is keeping most of the East TN hunters from flooding the area like they used to.

However, all the 130+ bucks--the bottomlands and most of those bucks come from around those bottomlands. Just ask anyone who hunts near them! They make up only a small part of Humphreys County, but most of the top-end bucks killed in the area come from those bottomlands.

A picture of Cherry Bottom (the last Buffalo River Bottom before the Buffalo joins the Duck). This bottomland is nearly 10 miles long and a mile wide (and always fully planted in corn and soybeans):

I love this area BSK and have hunted portions of it and close to it. A GREAT place to deer hunt in TN!

 

[Winchester]

Still amazing to me, to see that many deer day in and day out, and on top of that, add 7-10 bucks a sighting? I've said it before, but I'm lucky to see a buck or two, usually, during the season, with a high of about 4, maybe 5 different ones in an extremely good year.

Wow! Thats tough!

I agree! I hunt a mix of public and private ground here in East TN and I see this many deer and bucks included, in a single good wknd in Nov most yrs!

 

[BSK]

In my 25+ years experience hunting all over this state deer know what is happening and after the first week or so of December it gets as tough or tougher in Tennessee to kill a buck, especailly a good buck than it is KY after the first week of gun season.

So by the first week in December bucks in TN are nocturnal? Well of course they are! But by that time, if you're an MZ hunter too, you've had a full month of firearms hunting time. I would much rather have a month of firearms hunting time than the few days it takes the bucks to be nocturnal in KY. You've just made my point!

Each of us can only comment on the conditions we experience where we hunt. You made the comment that changes in the length of MZ and gun seasons you want wouldn't harm anyone's hunting experience. I strongly disagree, and obviously, so do many others. I would much rather have the 3-4 weeks it takes TN bucks in my area to get pressured into being totally nocturnal than the 48 hours it takes them to be totally nocturnal that I have experienced in KY.

Now if I hunted a high-pressure area in TN that looks more like KY's gun opener (and those areas do exist in TN), then I would probably feel differently. But I don't hunt those areas, for a reason.

 

[BSK]

I love this area BSK and have hunted portions of it and close to it. A GREAT place to deer hunt in TN!

I would be curious to know where in that area you've hunted. If you know where to look in the first picture--way off in the background--you can see my place.

 

[Headhunter]

Not all of us are blessed with what you have BSK. We have to hunt public land or private land that is pounded on all sides. No sense in a 2 month gun season. So many do not realize what a difference it would make in giving the deer a rest. You want to share a couple of spots you have that do not get hunted hard as you say? I will gladly take you up. I hunt in many different counties on private and public land and it is amazing how I have heard that "no one hunts there, not much pressure, etc." only to show up and not only do the areas get hunted they get hammered. Got invited to hunt Giles co last year. Does were eating the farmer out of house and home was the story. The farmer said kill them all. Amount of sign was unbelievable. 5 of us hunted. Nice cold day. I killed the only deer seen, a small doe. Come to find out around it was getting pounded on all sides by surrounding hunters. The deer in Tennessee get pressured beyond belief and it gets worse and worse every year.

 

[Headhunter]

And since the "full month of hunting" was implemented, I have noticed them becoming nocturnal even before then. Have not seen any chasing to speak of in a few years. I say the heat has much to do with that, but the full month of gun pressure is crazy. I am guessing before long, if you have killed a good buck by mid November then it will basically be over. For those who don't I hunt some portion of every single day of every season in Tennessee (except for the few days I have hunted KY the last couple years) and last year was my absolute worst year in my lifetime of hunting. Every year there is more and more pressure from more hunters which is a great thing in my opinion, but to have more and more pressure every year and leave our gun season at 2 months is not biologically smart.

 

[BSK]

Not all of us are blessed with what you have BSK.

I am blessed, but at the same time, I chose my hunting areas wisely. And as others have pointed out, they do to. If you don't like where you're hunting in TN, find another spot. Lots of hunters do it.

So many do not realize what a difference it would make in giving the deer a rest.

If you're "giving the deer a rest" that means you're not hunting them. What good is giving them rest going to do if you can't hunt them?

You want to share a couple of spots you have that do not get hunted hard as you say?

Huge sections of the western and eastern Highland Rim areas can be found without intense hunting pressure. The Eastern mountains receive very little pressure compared to other parts of the state.

The deer in Tennessee get pressured beyond belief and it gets worse and worse every year.

I've seen nothing to indicate the deer in TN get pressured more than the deer in other states. Good hunting land is a much sought after commodity these days, in every state.

 

[BSK]

And since the "full month of hunting" was implemented, I have noticed them becoming nocturnal even before then. Have not seen any chasing to speak of in a few years.

Every year is different and every location is different. Two years ago, we didn't see a single chase all year. Yet at my cousins' property just a few miles down the road, they saw the most chasing they've ever seen.

Last year, we saw some of the best chasing in a long time, and my cousins saw zilch.

Every year is different. Each location will have good years and bad years.

 

[Winchester]

I love this area BSK and have hunted portions of it and close to it. A GREAT place to deer hunt in TN!

I would be curious to know where in that area you've hunted. If you know where to look in the first picture--way off in the background--you can see my place.

BSK, a good friend of mine had a family member that owned some land there. I was invited a few times. This has been several years back as well. I will get his name and see if you know him?

 

[Beekeeper]

BSK,

With the size of the deer herd in TN, how many deer should be killed each year to maintain the current size of the herd? Also, how many deer are we killing each year?

 

[BSK]

BSK,

With the size of the deer herd in TN, how many deer should be killed each year to maintain the current size of the herd? Also, how many deer are we killing each year?

We kill about 160,000 deer each season. -don't know the other info.

We're killing about 80,000 antlered bucks and around 160,000 total deer fairly consistantly from year to year. A couple more years of good thermal image census data by the TWRA should give them I good idea if that is too many or not enough. I know in some areas, herd density is slowly increasing after the '07 EHD die-off, even with the current harvest levels. However, if I'm not mistaken, the latest thermal image numbers suggested some areas of the state were not at optimal deer numbers (or at least not as high as suspected before the census technique became available). But that's a question for BBG to answer.

 

[Beekeeper]

BSK,

With the size of the deer herd in TN, how many deer should be killed each year to maintain the current size of the herd? Also, how many deer are we killing each year?

We kill about 160,000 deer each season. -don't know the other info.

We're killing about 80,000 antlered bucks and around 160,000 total deer fairly consistantly from year to year. A couple more years of good thermal image census data by the TWRA should give them I good idea if that is too many or not enough. I know in some areas, herd density is slowly increasing after the '07 EHD die-off, even with the current harvest levels. However, if I'm not mistaken, the latest thermal image numbers suggested some areas of the state were not at optimal deer numbers (or at least not as high as suspected before the census technique became available). But that's a question for BBG to answer.

Thanks.

 

[102]

Making a statement about setting buck limits or length of gun season based on a hunters experience with a few Tn. Counties over a few years is like trying to fix the US economy by regulating gas prices to 1.00 per gallon. That will be GREAT for some of us, but in the long run, it does NOT fix the US economy.

I have been fortunate enough in the past 30 years to not only have been able to hunt across state from Polk County to Hickman County, but also in Alabama, N.C., Ky, Ga., and Illinois. Mostly on Public, high pressured land, but also a little private land sprinkled in the mix.

Not only are the areas different county by county, let alone State to State, but these counties can be dramatically different from one side of the road to the other. IT has literally taken me YEARS of note keeping, scouting, and hunting to find the "golden" spots. It has not been easy.

But in all this, there are a few things of which I am certain...

1-CONSISTENT success, year in and year out, is MOSTLY about one's ability to KNOW what areas to begin looking at and then scouting. Rather than trying to change state or local laws, that ultimately will do nothing to improve overall success rates, hunters should adapt to changing conditions, pressures, weather, and GEOGRAPHY. Kinda like deer do, in order to be CONSISTENTLY successful. HUNT THEM WHERE THEY ARE! Rather than trying to grow them where they are not, and probably will not be in your life.

2-I have been to Ky. and heard "the Fourth of July" opener. AND IN ILLINOIS. All I can say is...VERY IMPRESSIVE. UN BELIEVABLE. I actually feel sorry for the deer. (and the hunters). That first day there is not a minute that goes by without a shot being fired. Deer go nocturnal as do squirrels, turkeys and even ticks. It is simply amazing.

In areas that I frequent I have never witnessed anything as drastic in Tennessee. Deer in Tennessee do get to be much more difficult to see, but not like Ky., and Illinois.

 

[Beekeeper]

Making a statement about setting buck limits or length of gun season based on a hunters experience with a few Tn. Counties over a few years is like trying to fix the US economy by regulating gas prices to 1.00 per gallon. That will be GREAT for some of us, but in the long run, it does NOT fix the US economy.

I have been fortunate enough in the past 30 years to not only have been able to hunt across state from Polk County to Hickman County, but also in Alabama, N.C., Ky, Ga., and Illinois. Mostly on Public, high pressured land, but also a little private land sprinkled in the mix.

Not only are the areas different county by county, let alone State to State, but these counties can be dramatically different from one side of the road to the other. IT has literally taken me YEARS of note keeping, scouting, and hunting to find the "golden" spots. It has not been easy.

But in all this, there are a few things of which I am certain...

1-CONSISTENT success, year in and year out, is MOSTLY about one's ability to KNOW what areas to begin looking at and then scouting. Rather than trying to change state or local laws, that ultimately will do nothing to improve overall success rates, hunters should adapt to changing conditions, pressures, weather, and GEOGRAPHY. Kinda like deer do, in order to be CONSISTENTLY successful. HUNT THEM WHERE THEY ARE! Rather than trying to grow them where they are not, and probably will not be in your life.

2-I have been to Ky. and heard "the Fourth of July" opener. AND IN ILLINOIS. All I can say is...VERY IMPRESSIVE. UN BELIEVABLE. I actually feel sorry for the deer. (and the hunters). That first day there is not a minute that goes by without a shot being fired. Deer go nocturnal as do squirrels, turkeys and even ticks. It is simply amazing.

In areas that I frequent I have never witnessed anything as drastic in Tennessee. Deer in Tennessee do get to be much more difficult to see, but not like Ky., and Illinois.

Good Post, 102.

 

[Headhunter]

102, less than a week after gun season closes where we hunt in KY (and it is just like you said, a war) the deer start showing back up. In Tennessee it happens also, but we shut our deer down for 2 months. I have hunted in different states and in many different areas and conditions. I have helped cull does in many places. Gun pressure affects deer to some extent and it will even make does go nocturnal and be ultra wary. I am not against gun hunting in anyway, I love it. I spend way to much money on guns, reloading and optics, but anyone can see the effect and a long gun season is not good for anything other than pressuring deer. Much of Tennessee just seeing deer gets difficult after the first of December. I do not care about other states or care to be like them, but I believe we would nothing but benefit by giving the deer a rest.

I know you are the world's greatest hunter and you can kill any buck you want anytime you want, I get it. Not everyone is like a legend like you are. With the number of hunters and the pressure on the deer some kind of a rest cannot be bad. I would much rather have a shorter season where deer are visible than a 2 month season that is useless for 90 percent of it.

 

[Headhunter]

As far as what you say about growing them where they are not and will never be, guess what there are 1-1/2 year old 130, 140, 150" deer showing up each year (I say 1-1/2 because you keep saying age will not help Tennessee deer, which is BS). How old do you think those better deer are and did not age help? These better deer that are showing up are because they are being allowed to live. It is amazing how a buck that is alive grows antlers whereas a dead buck does not. I know you don't believe that but it really happens. I do not care what anyone shoots, but so many young bucks never get a chance because of our limits and so many will not kill a doe.

 

[Beekeeper]

less than a week after gun season closes where we hunt in KY (and it is just like you said, a war) the deer start showing back up. In Tennessee it happens also, but we shut our deer down for 2 months.

It depends on where you hunt and how you hunt. I have seen just as many deer in the middle of Dec. as I have seen the first part of Nov. I don�t hunt agricultural land but instead I hunt thick cove 90% of the time and this makes a difference as to whether or not deer will disappear. If you are hunting mainly big fields and open land try changing where you hunt when deer become wary of the fields.
Deer don't just leave an area and they don�t totally quit moving in the daylight, sometimes they just move to thicker cover.