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Selling of duck blinds...

Headhunter said:
Non-transferrable, so anyone who does not "sign on" cannot hunt the blind? I thought this was all about being fair. If no one is there by legal shooting time then it is open, so are blind hoppers illegal? I am not a lawyer but I bet a good one could have a field day with the terminology and the looseness with which the regs have been enforced over the years.

I haven't attended drawings in a while, but I have learned a lot happens that I had no clue about, and happens in the wide open. Not directed at you, but why are those actions not being addressed? I have been told when a person gets drawn, people are telling him which blinds they will buy or offering to buy a blind he chooses as the person is walking up to select a blind. Surely there is way to police that. Like I said I don't care what a person does once fairly drawn, but messing with process of drawing is wrong. Not sure how to police multiple licenses being purchased for non hunters just to up the chances of being drawn, but that is not right either. And that has been happening (that I know of) since the late 1980's.
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It the same as it has been for several decades. The person that draws the blind and any sign ons have the legal right to use the blind if they are there by legal shooting time. They cannot transfer those rights to anyone else, just like you can't transfer a WMA quota permit.

If the person that drew the blind or someone that signed onto the blind is not there by legal shooting time, it can be hunted by other hunters.

Those have been the rules for decades. It may change under the new proposed changes.
 
woodswise said:
The system was not designed to enrich people. It was designed to fairly distribute hunting opportunity. When you try to circumvent that intention you are clearly trying to game the system. It doesn't matter whether you buy granny and your kids license or hand out a cash dividend for acquiring the opportunity it's the same thing just a different method.
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Actually it is quite different. Granny's license money goes into the twra kitty and counts for PR funds.

Diamond Jim slipping the drawn hunter cash only benefits the drawn hunter and Diamond Jim.

I don't know that the "new" drawing system stopped all the spot selling. Which is what it was, selling a sign on spot since the drawn hunter didn't change. But it had to curtail it significantly because you had to declare your sign ons after the first draw from the tumbler. There was no way of knowing after that whether you had first pick or last.

Diamond Jim slipping you cash to sign on and then you getting pulled last would be a bad investment for ol Jim.
 
TWRA also needs to stop giving out the list of who drew what blinds as well Didnt realize they did that till this year. Talk about stupid Facebook was covered with people trying to find out who drew blind X and "who has the list to this WMA" post. With absolutely no effort I had the list to 4 wmas and so did probably thousands of others People were just blatantly asking who drew what and if anyone knew them or had a phone number. Now do you think they were just wanting to call those people and congratulate them?! Lol.
 
TWRA also needs to stop giving out the list of who drew what blinds as well Didnt realize they did that till this year. Talk about stupid Facebook was covered with people trying to find out who drew blind X and "who has the list to this WMA" post. With absolutely no effort I had the list to 4 wmas and so did probably thousands of others People were just blatantly asking who drew what and if anyone knew them or had a phone number. Now do you think they were just wanting to call those people and congratulate them?! Lol.

It's so hunters can verify that blind cards are legit and not forged
 
I get that but it's still aiding in people buying and attempting to buy them. I'd never seen anyone ask that before just out in the open on social media With the in person draws everyone had their answers from hearing the names called Sad those days are most likely gone. They could Atleast wait till closer to season to release the list
 
THE DUKE said:
The guided fishing is no different they don't own the lakes.
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It is very different. You are paying someone to provide boating and fishing equipment, plus their time to accompany you and other fisherman on a publicly accessible lake, where nobody is restricted from fishing.

Buying the access rights to a blind you don't own does nothing but forms an illegal contract where the LEGAL access holder is granting access to someone that bought in.
 
TAFKAP said:
It is very different. You are paying someone to provide boating and fishing equipment, plus their time to accompany you and other fisherman on a publicly accessible lake, where nobody is restricted from fishing.

Buying the access rights to a blind you don't own does nothing but forms an illegal contract where the LEGAL access holder is granting access to someone that bought in.
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I have searched all everywhere I know to look and as far as I can tell it is legal to guide from a blind on a WMA. So your argument has no standing. If a guide can draw a blind and make money in the same blind that can be drawn, why can't a person who draws the blind sell access? To me, can't have it both ways.
 
Sure it's legal. The guide being the legal cardholder has every right to utilize his time, services, and equipment to capitalize on that. So long as the guide is carrying a TWRA guide license, there's nothing that says they can't do that on a WMA. Their season-long access to the blind doesn't prevent them from being a guide

"Selling a blind" means you're entering into a contract with someone that YOU will not be present at the blind so that your buyer can hop it, thereby acting as if they are the legal card holder. It's all about the cardholder not utilizing the blind.
 
scn said:
Again, Sam, it is very simple.

There is a regulation passed by the Commission that makes it illegal to buy or sell a duck blind.

If you don't like the regulation, work to have the Commission to do away with it. Until then, it is the law.
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Again, I don't care. I really don't. And I am giving up trying to catch violators. If is unbelievable to see what is happening to the fisheries in our state.
But one violation I would not report if I saw it though, is selling a duck blind. If the duck blind is drawn fairly in a completely honest draw, I do not understand why anyone cares if it is sold, rented or guided out of. To me, renting or selling is very much the same as guiding.

From what I am seeing that "everyone knows selling of duck blinds" and it has been common knowledge among not only the duck hunters but also the TWRA and has been happening for years and years, and it has never been stopped? IMO, the TWRA knows that many licenses are sold to "buy blinds" and they won't admit it but that is the reason for not stopping the selling of blinds (except for this latest idiotic proposal which will do more harm than good and ruin duck hunting), and the TWRA will do anything to sell licenses, not properly address the issues. And why do I say that? They could have stopped the selling of blinds a long time ago, but that would have also stopped selling of the licenses to "buy blinds". I don't know how to, but maybe a complete and total change in how game laws and conservation is handled in the state of Tennessee is due for a change.

I am not against the TWRA, I sure disagree with them on some things (wish there was some way they could get more officers and watch the fisheries of our state for not only poachers but also safety) and I follow the laws they pass whether I agree with them or not, but there is no doubt in my mind and most every hunter and fisherman I know that much of what the TWRA does is so sell licenses, not what it best for the wildlife, the land or the hunters and fishermen.
 
TAFKAP said:
Sure it's legal. The guide being the legal cardholder has every right to utilize his time, services, and equipment to capitalize on that. So long as the guide is carrying a TWRA guide license, there's nothing that says they can't do that on a WMA. Their season-long access to the blind doesn't prevent them from being a guide

"Selling a blind" means you're entering into a contract with someone that YOU will not be present at the blind so that your buyer can hop it, thereby acting as if they are the legal card holder. It's all about the cardholder not utilizing the blind.
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What does it matter if the cardholder uses or does not use the blind?

And wait a minute, someone said it is illegal to make money from a public owned entity? What is different between guiding and selling? Not much. Not much at all.
 
No, it's illegal to sell something you don't own. Selling a blind is selling access to property you don't own. It's no different than being given permission to hunt a field, but selling it to your buddy as a lease.

You don't seem to be able to separate the notion of selling services as a guide and selling "access". A guide is legally permitted to sell his personal services to fish/hunt on free-to-access public land.
 
The guide is still operating on publicly owned property and using a publicly drawn blind. Selling service or access, no difference. And given a choice I would mush rather buy access than service anyways. And since selling a blind is illegal then a hunter should be able to use the guides services for free.

Also, a guide would have even more reason to attempt to buy a blind or buy extra licenses for people to help draw a particular blind. Not saying any guide does it, but a guide to me would have more reasons for getting a blind than someone who just wants a better place to hunt.
 
Headhunter said:
I have searched all everywhere I know to look and as far as I can tell it is legal to guide from a blind on a WMA. So your argument has no standing. If a guide can draw a blind and make money in the same blind that can be drawn, why can't a person who draws the blind sell access? To me, can't have it both ways.
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If it makes you feel better, I'd be fine if we eliminate guided hunts on draw blinds.

Guiding on public land that everyone has equal access to makes sense to me. Guiding in drawn blinds is a gray area, selling drawn blinds is a clear violation of the purpose of draws, which should be giving people opportunity to hunt.

If blinds are going to be sold to the highest bidder, it should be twra doing that selling so they can put the funds back into conservation.
 
hard county said:
If it makes you feel better, I'd be fine if we eliminate guided hunts on draw blinds.

Guiding on public land that everyone has equal access to makes sense to me. Guiding in drawn blinds is a gray area, selling drawn blinds is a clear violation of the purpose of draws, which should be giving people opportunity to hunt.

If blinds are going to be sold to the highest bidder, it should be twra doing that selling so they can put the funds back into conservation.
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I have not said or implied blinds should be sold to the highest bidder. They should NOT be.

But so long blinds are drawn in a fair, unrigged, drawing. The drawing is completely above reproach.
Then what someone does with the blind after being fairly drawn, is up to the blind owner. Guide from it, rent it, sell it or whatever. If you are going to allow guiding from the blind, then selling or renting should be legal.

To me, if I had the money that I would want for a blind if I drew one, I would not be hunting in Tennessee anyways.
 
Headhunter said:
I have not said or implied blinds should be sold to the highest bidder. They should NOT be.

But so long blinds are drawn in a fair, unrigged, drawing. The drawing is completely above reproach.
Then what someone does with the blind after being fairly drawn, is up to the blind owner. Guide from it, rent it, sell it or whatever. If you are going to allow guiding from the blind, then selling or renting should be legal.

To me, if I had the money that I would want for a blind if I drew one, I would not be hunting in Tennessee anyways.
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If twra makes it known that its ok to buy and sell drawn blinds, it absolutely will be blinds going to the highest bidder.

As an example, My group would never buy a blind in the current system because it's illegal. Likewise, I would never sell a blind for the same reason I respect bag limits and don't roost shoot. I signed a social contract to be a good citizen.

If it were suddenly legal to sell blinds most, if not all, blinds would be bought and sold. That would mean blinds going to the highest bidder and everyone with that evening free driving up to participate in the redneck lottery.

The question twra has to then ask is "is this what wmas are for?"
 
Some on this thread make good arguments however, I am against the selling of blinds. Guiding out of a public blind by a licensed guide is something I would have to think about. But good arguments.
 
hard county said:
If twra makes it known that its ok to buy and sell drawn blinds, it absolutely will be blinds going to the highest bidder.

As an example, My group would never buy a blind in the current system because it's illegal. Likewise, I would never sell a blind for the same reason I respect bag limits and don't roost shoot. I signed a social contract to be a good citizen.

If it were suddenly legal to sell blinds most, if not all, blinds would be bought and sold. That would mean blinds going to the highest bidder and everyone with that evening free driving up to participate in the redneck lottery.

The question twra has to then ask is "is this what wmas are for?"
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If the blinds are drawn in a completely fair, unrigged drawing, why care what happens after they are drawn? I love to hunt. I would use the blind to my advantage. Also, to me anyone, who buys or attempts to buy a blind in Tennessee is crazy anyways. If I had the money to buy a blind, I would pay to hunt somewhere there are ducks, sure wouldn't be buying a blind in Tennessee.
 

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