Should we even worry about CWD anymore?

[mike243]

Can you name a person that got CJD from eating CWD-infected venison? And people have certainly eaten hundreds of thousands if not millions of infected deer.

So your supposed to be a scientist of some sort but you are claiming their data is flawed and your theory's is better than theirs? I never stated I know what is the correct answer but evidently a bunch of folks have done research on here and know the truth. Myself and family will stay on the safe side till some solid evidence comes out, But each person should know the truth and the chances, claims either way are still up in the air, some things aren't worth gambling over or putting your name on it.

 

[BSK]

So your supposed to be a scientist of some sort but you are claiming their data is flawed and your theory's is better than theirs? I never stated I know what is the correct answer but evidently a bunch of folks have done research on here and know the truth. Myself and family will stay on the safe side till some solid evidence comes out, But each person should know the truth and the chances, claims either way are still up in the air, some things aren't worth gambling over or putting your name on it.

Yes, I am a "scientist of some sort," and yes I have seen/read wildlife agencies theories and know they are flawed, and yes there is good data available, which I have seen/read.

Is the chance of contracting CJD from eating CWD infected deer zero? Nope. But it hasn't happened yet and the chances are exceptionally low consider the CWD prion is not conducive to a human form (although not numerically impossible). Given enough time and enough chances, it biologically could occur. But at what rate/frequency? At what level is the risk no longer worth the activity?

E Coli from eating infected meat kills about 100 people a year in the U.S. But who actually stops buying meat because of that risk? The number of people infected with CJD from eating CWD infected venison in the U.S. is zero. Am I going to stop eating venison because the risk of contracting CJD isn't zero? Nope, I'll keep eating it. But to each their own....

 

[mike243]

I honestly feel there is more of a chance of blood infusion due to cuts on hands ect handling/processing deer than eating. but folks need to know there is chances of disease.

 

[Omega]

I honestly feel there is more of a chance of blood infusion due to cuts on hands ect handling/processing deer than eating. but folks need to know there is chances of disease.

I don't think the chance of blood infusion is that substantial, again you would have heard about it by now if it had happened. Given that it is much more likely to get something from wild hogs, such as swine brucellosis, pseudorabies, and tularemia, you still see a multitude of guys online field dressing them without gloves, and those have crossed over. I am not saying you don't have a point, we must know the risks, but the likelihood of getting it are much smaller than what some folks online seem to want you to think. But unlike the shot, no one will force you to eat it if you don't want to.

 

[BigAl]

Yes, I am a "scientist of some sort," and yes I have seen/read wildlife agencies theories and know they are flawed, and yes there is good data available, which I have seen/read.

Pretty funny.

BSK, do you eat Venison? Just curious considering your history with alpha gal. I stopped eating it when I got it. Eventually tried it again but had a bad reaction to a small portion of venison, so I'm still not eating it. Still hunt though. I just donate or give away what I kill.

 

[BSK]

Pretty funny.

BSK, do you eat Venison? Just curious considering your history with alpha gal. I stopped eating it when I got it. Eventually tried it again but had a bad reaction to a small portion of venison, so I'm still not eating it. Still hunt though. I just donate or give away what I kill.

While I still had Alpha-Gal, I could eat venison without problem. But that is probably because we process our own deer and remove all fat layers. Alpha-Gal is actually a reaction to the animal fat instead of the meat. Unfortunately, cattle have been bred to hold a lot of fat within the meat (the reason it is so juicy), so beef is the worst for Alpha-Gal sufferers. Luckily, I got over my Alpha-Gal about 13 years ago.

 

[BigAl]

While I still had Alpha-Gal, I could eat venison without problem. But that is probably because we process our own deer and remove all fat layers. Alpha-Gal is actually a reaction to the animal fat instead of the meat. Unfortunately, cattle have been bred to hold a lot of fat within the meat (the reason it is so juicy), so beef is the worst for Alpha-Gal sufferers. Luckily, I got over my Alpha-Gal about 13 years ago.

Still battling it but its gotten better after 6 years. Strange that the one time I tried venison I had a reaction. I've also had some dairy reactions recently and never had an issue before, but I suspect it was due to rennet (you'll have to google it).

 

[BSK]

Yup, more and more Alpha-Gal sufferers are reporting reactions to dairy. Luckily, I never had that.

I got Alpha-Gal in 1991. After figuring out what I was allergic to, I went without eating beef for 20 years. By that time, when I finally tried a little beef, I was over it. However, after 20 years I had lost the gut bacteria needed to digest beef. That was unpleasant! I slowly worked in a little beef over time and can now eat it with no problem. However, I've completely lost my taste for it. Have no interest in a steak or roast beef. Only thing I like is the occasional hamburger.

Something within my family's DNA makes us susceptible to Alpha-Gal. Myself and both siblings that live in TN got it. My oldest sister who got Alpha-Gal was a geneticist and worked in Big Pharma research. When the immunologist from NC discovered Alpha-Gal (he originally called it "Mammalian Meat Allergy"), she called him up and talked to him at length. I also talked to him. He said my 1991 onset was the oldest he had ever heard of.

 

[fairchaser]

Wouldn't the additional pressure of hunting younger bucks not have the older ones make themselves scarce? On many of the bases I have hunted, the oldest/bigger bucks were always in the impact areas or off-limits areas. Once they opened those areas up, the bucks moved elsewhere.

I don't think bucks distinguish pressure between younger bucks and older bucks. Also, cameras tell the story about what's out there.

 

[Omega]

I don't think bucks distinguish pressure between younger bucks and older bucks. Also, cameras tell the story about what's out there.

Pressure is pressure, if deer sense they are safe, they congregate in those areas. Once the shooting starts, at any deer, the older bucks tend to scatter. If you give a deer a pass, without shooting, it may return if it doesn't notice you, if you jump one, or shoot it's buddy, it may not until the rut. So long story short, the more shooting, the less mature bucks, No?

 

[ghostdance56]

Pretty funny.

BSK, do you eat Venison? Just curious considering your history with alpha gal. I stopped eating it when I got it. Eventually tried it again but had a bad reaction to a small portion of venison, so I'm still not eating it. Still hunt though. I just donate or give away what I kill.

Wife has alpha gal. Can't eat anything but fish and fowl. Has had it for about 5 years now. Doctor checks for enzyme annually during her physical. Sadly enzyme level continues go up but fortunately not her sensitivity to meat. All from a tick bite!

 

[BigAl]

Wife has alpha gal. Can't eat anything but fish and fowl. Has had it for about 5 years now. Doctor checks for enzyme annually during her physical. Sadly enzyme level continues go up but fortunately not her sensitivity to meat. All from a tick bite!

Same for me. My counts have risen but I'm eating lots of stuff. Sometimes I have reactions, but I'm so much better.

 

[tbadon]

My adult daughter has alpha gal. She has one of the worst cases. She can't even take medication that is a gelatin capsule since it is mammal derived. The other day her dog brought her a fairly fresh deer bone and dropped it on her bare foot. Within two minutes she had hives on that foot. There is very little of today's grocery store foods that don't have some mammal derived food additive. Her diet is now very restricted, and expensive.

 

[ROB]

Loss of hunting property's has played a large part in the decline of hunting and will continue to play a part, lease's keep getting higher and few folks won't let just anybody hunt. Ky is in the same boat as far as too many deer in some spots, CWD is going to clear out a lot of thick spots I am afraid, when Tn gets the deer numbers reduced to a certain number I see them going to a 1 buck limit state wide. The sad thing will be the trophy hunters will have a lot less chance to take a trophy by todays standards. I may not live to see it but it's coming.

In the 3 years I have been on the KDFW Commission, we have made acquiring public land a priority. We now have over 1 million acres of public land in KY. The problem is it isn't evenly distributed. The Daniel Boone National Forrest accounts for 700,000 of those acres & is located mostly in south eastern KY. Some areas of KY don't have near enough public land. For those of you that hunt KY, all I can say is that we're trying.

 

[ROB]

I don't know the variance on number of deer taken each season but 26% lower than average seems like a lot. What have the thoughts been on why there were 26% fewer taken that season?

So, KDFWR has had a CWD contingency plan for over 20 years. This plan would be triggered when a deer was found to be CWD positive within 20 miles of the KY state border and went into effect when an adult doe near Cottage Grove, in Henry County, tested positive. The 5 counties nearest Henry Co were Fulton, Hickman, Graves, Calloway, & Marshall Counties in KY. These became the first CWD Surveillance Zone counties. (Ironically, I was born in Fulton Co, grew up in Hickman Co, hunt in Graves Co, live in Calloway Co, and, at the time, worked in Marshall Co, so lots of friends & acquaintances were depending on me.)

New restrictions in the CWD Zone including a ban on baiting & minerals & mandatory in person testing of any deer harvested during MZ & modern firearm season (in addition to still having to TeleCheck each harvested deer). The compliance with the in person check stations was about 94%. We had like 17 check stations in the 5 counties, many of which were at processors where many ppl were going to take their deer any way. Many older hunters had been telling me for years that they wished they could go back to the in person check stations like when they were kids. This gave them a chance to do that plus KDFWR sweetened the pot by giving away a back pack sized thermos, orange vest, or camo hat to each hunter. This was well received. BTW, I was curious about the 6% that didn't comply (who TeleCheck'd a deer but didn't check it in person. These were mostly Amish hunters. Obviously, a 15 mile distance to a check station for them is a 30 mile ride with a deer in a buggy, so we started sending wildlife techs to them. The rest were old guys who simply didn't know they needed to check their deer in person. There was very little negative feedback for mandatory in person checking.

There was a significant amount of complaints about not being able to bait. Many primarily younger hunters had never deer hunted except over corn & were convinced they couldn't hunt successfully except over bait.

Finally, a significant percentage of hunters simply understood little about CWD, didn't try to learn about it, & believed whatever others told them rather than taking the time to learn about CWD themselves. The truth here is it is a complex, incompletely understood disease, easy to confuse with blue tongue, and most deer hunters weren't used to learning about wildlife diseases.

So, the big reasons why I believe there was a significant drop in deer harvested in the first year of the CWD Surveillance Zone is confusion over the disease itself, not liking the ban on baiting, and being unable/unwilling to take harvested deer to an in person check station.

 

[BSK]

There was a significant amount of complaints about not being able to bait. Many primarily younger hunters had never deer hunted except over corn & were convinced they couldn't hunt successfully except over bait.

One of the many, MANY reasons I don't like baiting. It removes any need for knowledge or skill. Practice baiting for a couple of years and you have an entire generation of new deer hunters who have real idea how to hunt. Learning to be a successful deer hunter is supposed to be about learning woodsmanship skills. Allow baiting and that all goes out the window.

Finally, a significant percentage of hunters simply understood little about CWD, didn't try to learn about it, & believed whatever others told them rather than taking the time to learn about CWD themselves. The truth here is it is a complex, incompletely understood disease, easy to confuse with blue tongue, and most deer hunters weren't used to learning about wildlife diseases.

I couldn't agree more. There is still so much we don't know about infectious prion diseases. And in my opinion, that's the biggest part of the problem. State regulators taking drastic action to fend off a disease no one really understands. Reminds me of the draconian measures taken by federal agencies over Covid. (and this is NOT a shot at you ROB)

Great post ROB! Thanks for the insight.

 

[DaveB]

I no longer worry about it

Seems like I saw/read something about 'bent prions" in humans being a prime suspect in Parkinson's disease. You suppose-maybe-is possible such research could uncover some solution?

I know Parkinson's is getting a lot of attention because of the potential market size, or, MONEY.

But maybe?

 

[BSK]

Seems like I saw/read something about 'bent prions" in humans being a prime suspect in Parkinson's disease. You suppose-maybe-is possible such research could uncover some solution?

I know Parkinson's is getting a lot of attention because of the potential market size, or, MONEY.

But maybe?

Anything is possible. Never discount Nature.

 

[Omega]

Seems like I saw/read something about 'bent prions" in humans being a prime suspect in Parkinson's disease. You suppose-maybe-is possible such research could uncover some solution?

I know Parkinson's is getting a lot of attention because of the potential market size, or, MONEY.

But maybe?

The way reports have been coming out about big pharma, I would not be surprised to find out it's them developing all these diseases in the first place.

 

[UTGrad]

I sprinkle a little CWD on my Cheerios in the morning and smoke a COVID cigarette before heading to work.