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Some interesting buck "time of day" data

gtk said:
Back several years ago, I wrote some software that took my pictures date/time information, and loaded to a database. Then I wrote a front-end to interface with that data, and enter specific information (buck/doe/known buck/cameral location, etc).

Then my software would pull down moon phase information, atmospheric conditions (temp/humidity/etc). Then it would allow you to run all sorts of reports.

I had about 6 yrs worth of data compiled before I quit working with it.
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It is that type of data I never stop looking at. I keep finding new ways to look at it.
 
Although all of the data analyses I've been running on this buck trail-camera data has been very illuminating - finding new patterns and confirming/denying some older ideas - I found actually going back through all the pictures and videos with "a fresh set of eyes" has helped me pick up on several "patterns" I hadn't noticed when I first went through them during the season they were collected. Maybe it's because I was so focused on getting in all the census data to notice, or perhaps "stepping back" after a few years makes previously unnoticed things jump out. Some of the things I noticed now are so obvious I don't know how I missed them the first time.

I highly recommend anyone who collects any type of data, from hardcore database/spreadsheet data to just a written diary, go back through your old information and give it a fresh look. Patterns may jump out at you so clearly you wonder why you never saw them before.
 
BSK said:
Another thing to remember is the hunting pressure variable. I've been inputting only the November and December data because I'm trying to learn things that will make us more successful hunters, and those two months are when we do all of our hunting. And we put a LOT of pressure on the property during November, to the tune of about 200-250 hours of treestand time during that month alone. What would the data look like if the property WASN'T being hunted during the rut month? I bet quite different!

Eventually I will get around to entering the data for the pre-rut month of October. Being pre-rut, and especially be UNHUNTED during that month, will probably display from very different results.
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Hunting pressure and hunting success are juxtaposed to one another. You must hunt in order to be successful but the more you hunt the more pressure you place on your property which reduces daytime movement.
How do you tell hunters to hunt less for more success? I hope your data has the perfect combination of where the law of diminishing returns starts and stops. I think the only answer lies in the cerebral cortex of the hunter who may have an instinct of when and how much to hunt. I don't know about you but I suspect you've had those days afield when you just know that you know you need to be in the woods.
 
fairchaser said:
Hunting pressure and hunting success are juxtaposed to one another. You must hunt in order to be successful but the more you hunt the more pressure you place on your property which reduces daytime movement.
How do you tell hunters to hunt less for more success? I hope your data has the perfect combination of where the law of diminishing returns starts and stops. I think the only answer lies in the cerebral cortex of the hunter who may have an instinct of when and how much to hunt
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GREAT comments.

For this particular property, I've noted that those years where hunters place in excess of 300 total hours of treestand time on the property, the numbers for that year won't be good. Now the first 100-150 hours will show stats like any year, but it's all the subsequent hunting pressure - and the poor results - that drive the average down for the year.
fairchaser said:
I don't know about you but I suspect you've had those days afield when you just know that you know you need to be in the woods.
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Although it's a simple and obvious pattern, but when the other hunters get into that part of the season where they're only hunting weekends, the best day to hunt is Friday before everyone else gets there! The deer have had a week to calm down from the previous weekend's hunting pressure and movement is much better. I've been taking off work on Fridays and hunting these days to great success. Unfortunately, the other hunters have begun to notice my success and starting to get out there on Fridays too. Oh well...
 
BSK said:
Eventually I will get around to entering the data for the pre-rut month of October. Being pre-rut, and especially be UNHUNTED during that month, will probably display from very different results.
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Something I've noticed with certain stand sites is that they are hot during rut, but not pre-rut, which would give skewed results. One in particular gets really busy with random, older bucks around the beginning of Nov, then falls off after a couple of weeks to a plateau through January, and then dead again until the following season. Doe groups use the area year round. For a few weeks each year I get pics of bucks I've never seen before, most of which are mature, and at least half during daylight.
 
BSK said:
it's a simple and obvious pattern, but when the other hunters get into that part of the season where they're only hunting weekends, the best day to hunt is Friday before everyone else gets there! The deer have had a week to calm down from the previous weekend's hunting pressure and movement is much better. I've been taking off work on Fridays and hunting these days to great success. Unfortunately, the other hunters have begun to notice my success and starting to get out there on Fridays too. Oh well...
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HA! Our guys noticed me doing the same and it has evolved into a Thursday AND Friday thing now 🤣. Oh well, I enjoy the company
 
If the weather is good, I like to hunt on Wednesday or Thursday. The deer have settled down from the weekend warriors by Monday and Tuesday. By Wednesday and Thursday, they are starting to get back to a normal pace. The traffic picks back up Friday and the deer notice this increase even the increase in road traffic puts them on notice. I like fewer encounters with other hunters too. Things seemed to go at a less frenetic pace.
 
I've noticed this on Ames as CWD has taken its toll on populations especially mature bucks. Hunters will start in their old good spots and not see deer. They will then move and start scouting more and more. Once 50-60 hunters start roaming the plantation, looking for a new honey hole, the deer are put on extreme notice and you can't even see a doe, much less a mature buck. Of course we can change our behavior but the drive is there to keep searching and looking. We are our own worst enemy!
 
Here's a weird pattern I can't figure out. All the hunters on my place are family. We hunt cooperatively and share all information. When we're all there (5 or 6 of us), before each hunt, we stand around staring at a map of the property with all the stands marked. Everybody has access to all the information: which stands have been hunted and when, as well as what has been seen; what bucks have been photographed at which cameras; a map showing all the current rubs and scrapes; etc. Now we have to choose stands. At the beginning of the season, when no stands have been hunted yet, choosing first is very successful! But as the season drags on, choosing first is not so successful! In fact, although it started as somewhat of a joke, I now DEMAND to choose last. For whatever reason, whenever I choose last, and often have to pick a stand low on my priority list, I have the best success. This pattern has held so firm over the years, that other than opening weekend, NOBODY wants to choose first! The conversation is the same before every hunt, "Where are you going to hunt?" "I don't know, where are you going to hunt?" Honestly, this conversation will go on for an hour prior to setting out for the stands, nobody wanting to choose first. It's become a running joke. Exactly why not getting to hunt the stand you really want to hunt has become so successful truly baffles me.
 
In my hunting club and on public land, I use spatial analysis as the primary tactic for choosing what area to hunt. I want to hunt the areas the other hunters don't want, and have not been hunting. Even though most these areas may appear to be less attractive areas to hunt, often lacking sign. But because these areas are not being "disturbed" (or disturbed less), that is why the older deer so quickly gravitate to these areas. Not just older bucks, but older deer, including those old does I believe are most often specifically pursued by mature bucks.

Wherever we find the most deer sign, we often have the most deer hunting, and consequently, that deer sign gets refreshed mostly under the cover of darkness. Where I want to hunt is where the deer are spending their daylight hours. And I promise you, this is often a full linear mile from where they spend their nights and make lots of rubs & scrapes, at least after there's a little hunting pressure.

And, "hunting" pressure can actually be more in the form of "scouting" than actual "hunting".

This "pressure" is actually any human "disturbance" out of the ordinary.
For example, a farmer daily delivering a bale of hay to his cattle is something that does not "disturb" the local deer. Busy traffic on a highway does not necessarily bother the deer any at all (as it's "ordinary" for that location). But who wants to hunt 50 yds off a busy road? Me, when most other hunters are all mostly meeting in the center of a big area, and/or hunting where they're finding the most big rubs & sign.

Also, few things can reduce a hunter's odds more than going out the day before to hang a stand or find a spot for the next morning's hunt. Sometimes, oftentimes, the very best hunting strategy is simply to hunt tomorrow were no human intruded today, or even walked into the past week or two. Walking to & from a stand location often puts more "pressure" on the deer than sitting in that stand hunting.

Part of why BSK is having good luck "picking last" is because he's ending up with what everyone else felt was a less desirable place to hunt. Might be less desirable for a variety of reasons. But might be a better place to actually kill an old buck.
 
BSK said:
Here's a weird pattern I can't figure out. All the hunters on my place are family. We hunt cooperatively and share all information. When we're all there (5 or 6 of us), before each hunt, we stand around staring at a map of the property with all the stands marked. Everybody has access to all the information: which stands have been hunted and when, as well as what has been seen; what bucks have been photographed at which cameras; a map showing all the current rubs and scrapes; etc. Now we have to choose stands. At the beginning of the season, when no stands have been hunted yet, choosing first is very successful! But as the season drags on, choosing first is not so successful! In fact, although it started as somewhat of a joke, I now DEMAND to choose last. For whatever reason, whenever I choose last, and often have to pick a stand low on my priority list, I have the best success. This pattern has held so firm over the years, that other than opening weekend, NOBODY wants to choose first! The conversation is the same before every hunt, "Where are you going to hunt?" "I don't know, where are you going to hunt?" Honestly, this conversation will go on for an hour prior to setting out for the stands, nobody wanting to choose first. It's become a running joke. Exactly why not getting to hunt the stand you really want to hunt has become so successful truly baffles me.
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Most people suffer from the recency effect. They want to choose based on what was seen last time. We all think if he was there once he will be there again. Of course that could be true. But he could just as easily be somewhere else. On top of that, the more that spot is hunted the more likely it has succumbed to pressure. Also, I think there is something to being unselfish and willingness to go last that might be blessed, unless that's your goal. Lol Choosing wisely is difficult.
 
TheLBLman said:
In my hunting club and on public land, I use spatial analysis as the primary tactic for choosing what area to hunt. I want to hunt the areas the other hunters don't want, and have not been hunting. Even though most these areas may appear to be less attractive areas to hunt, often lacking sign. But because these areas are not being "disturbed" (or disturbed less), that is why the older deer so quickly gravitate to these areas. Not just older bucks, but older deer, including those old does I believe are most often specifically pursued by mature bucks.

Wherever we find the most deer sign, we often have the most deer hunting, and consequently, that deer sign gets refreshed mostly under the cover of darkness. Where I want to hunt is where the deer are spending their daylight hours. And I promise you, this is often a full linear mile from where they spend their nights and make lots of rubs & scrapes, at least after there's a little hunting pressure.

And, "hunting" pressure can actually be more in the form of "scouting" than actual "hunting".

This "pressure" is actually any human "disturbance" out of the ordinary.
For example, a farmer daily delivering a bale of hay to his cattle is something that does not "disturb" the local deer. Busy traffic on a highway does not necessarily bother the deer any at all (as it's "ordinary" for that location). But who wants to hunt 50 yds off a busy road? Me, when most other hunters are all mostly meeting in the center of a big area, and/or hunting where they're finding the most big rubs & sign.

Also, few things can reduce a hunter's odds more than going out the day before to hang a stand or find a spot for the next morning's hunt. Sometimes, oftentimes, the very best hunting strategy is simply to hunt tomorrow were no human intruded today, or even walked into the past week or two. Walking to & from a stand location often puts more "pressure" on the deer than sitting in that stand hunting.

Part of why BSK is having good luck "picking last" is because he's ending up with what everyone else felt was a less desirable place to hunt. Might be less desirable for a variety of reasons. But might be a better place to actually kill an old buck.
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I've known hunters go and check their spot for the next morning hunt and bust the buck they were after. But, they are even more excited to hunt the next morning because they saw their buck by their stand! It's insane how we hunters think sometimes. They will go hang their climber on their tree the night before with all its scent right on the ground. Where do they think the deer are all night? The funny thing is I used to be this hunter. Deer live by their nose like we do with our eyes. Except we can't see where something was but they can smell where something was and how long ago it was there.
 
fairchaser said:
Deer live by their nose like we do with our eyes. Except we can't see where something was but they can smell where something was and how long ago it was there.
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Very true.
But I believe most hunters under-estimate how well older deer can both hear & distinguish sounds, which in turn often allows them to see approaching hunters. Often, they wouldn't see us, if they didn't hear us first.

Deer have better hearing than us humans, and seem better at distinguishing non-natural "alarming" sounds vs. natural non-alarming sounds.

One of the main reasons I avoid morning hunts from metal ladder stands is because, when least expected, they are bad about making some kind of metallic pop while I'm climbing. On those crisp, cold, frosty mornings, a bedded deer can often hear this several hundred yards away, and typically will NOT come your direction after hearing that.

More natural sounds, including human footsteps, even climbing a tree with a climbing stand, often attract bedded deer to come investigate, as I suppose they either think it "might" have been a deer, a raccoon, or they're just curious. On the other hand, metallic sounds, the metallic "click" of a truck door, and the sound of tearing velcro, typically send deer away from you.
 
TheLBLman said:
Deer have better hearing than us humans, and seem better at distinguishing non-natural "alarming" sounds vs. natural non-alarming sounds.
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As you well know TheLBLman, those new Browning trail-cams have amazing microphones on them. When replaying video, if I turn up the sound, I can hear the train going through Waverly. That's 8 air-miles away. I can hear owls hooting. I can hear all sorts of birdsongs. But then I'll be watching a video of deer feeding in front of the camera and suddenly every head pops up and turns in the same direction. Turning up the volume, I can't hear what it is they are hearing. Then two minutes later by the timestamp on the video, the deer are gone but here I am riding up on my ATV to change cards. They could hear my ATV coming WAY off.
 
SO much truth in this thread. If hunters would simply try to think like a deer, they would probably understand them a lot better and WHY they do the things the way they do.

Imagine you living out in the woods "off the grid" and the government coming after you. I'm willing to bet if you heard that tinkering off in the distance right before daylight, you're likely to not go in that direction after it gets light. What about those footsteps? Doesn't sound like what I hear 99% of the time. Where is that loud engine going with gravel popping underneath? I'm not going anywhere in that direction.

Most hunters are lazy and don't think very far in depth to what they're actually doing. They are more worried about which camo looks the best and which cover scents they can get to mask themselves.

Keep it simple and think realistically. Always ask WHY
 
In the spirit of data, I charted one particular stand/camera site here in Coffee Co. I looked only at mature bucks, date, time, and weather at the time of picture.

In order of appearance of mature bucks:

Oct-18, 9:14am, 51*, 0mph wind lull in shift from south to east

Nov-3, 830am, 42*, 8mph NE wind

Nov-3 834am, 42*, 8mph NE wind

Nov-7, 1010am, 51*, 0mph lull between south to north wind

Nov-7, 421pm, 65*, 3mph NE lull between west to east wind

Nov-9, 1017am, 60*, 0mph lull between south to north wind

Nov-14, 209pm, 57*, 8mph west wind *inside a 1hr lull between rain showers

Nov-18, 1124am, 44*, 8mph NE

Nov-19, 1126am, 44*, 8mph NE

Dec-14, 420pm, 63*, 5mph SE

No mature bucks showed up before Oct-18, and none after Dec-14. All but two were inside the first 3 weeks of November. A couple of things that stand out obvious to me is all are daylight and all coincide either with easterly wind or inside the dead time between wind direction changes. The one exception is a buck that showed up during a few minute dry stretch on a rainy day.

A mature buck has been taken from that stand the last 4 seasons consecutively. Starting in 2021':

Dec-4-21, 844am, 58*, 0mph lull between south to north wind shift

Nov-8-20, 4pm, no data recorded that day on weather underground

Nov-24-19, 945am, 43*, 3mph lull between north to west to north again

Dec-6-18, 4pm, 45*, 9mph sustained SW breeze

The harvest record doesn't completely mesh with camera pattern, but one recurrence that can't be ignored is that older bucks are moving through that spot almost specifically during the middle of weather/wind shifts. I hadn't paid real close attention to this before but these threads BSK has been posting recently got me inspired and inquisitive to chart some of my own data. I knew the spot was an outstanding rut cruise spot but now I'm realizing more precisely when to sit there!
 

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