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Ultraligjt 12g

kevin mays said:
Anticipating Recoil and not patterning a gun is biggest 2 reasons for missing or wounding one.


From 0yard to 50 yard every ga shotgun made will kill the crap out of turkey assuming the shooter has prepared and has an adequate set up
And
He knows how to shoot properly including how to judge distance

I should also add having a red dot you trust is a game changer shooting turkeys also .

With tss and red dots it's like having a cheat code . Put the dot where you sighted it in
Pull the trigger
Game over !

The huge advantage w the 410 is that it doesn't make you blink. So you can stare the dot down on the turkey and when the shell goes off you will still be staring at the bird.


You don't have to gather your senses and look up to see if you killed it.
That's the big advantage .

Birdshot from a 12 ga will make you blink
Same for a 20

Targets are so evolved now how many you hit in a 10in circle is not what's important
It's how many hit in the brain,head, and vertebrae.

that's what one should focus on

In the target below I think there is like 200 in the 10 inch circle . Many that were misses! There are 30 inside 5 inches that were clean misses
What was important was the 18 in the brain and approximately 12 more in the vertebrae.
So when sighting your gun in
Worry about those pellets
Not the 180 that hit in a 10 in circle that obviously are misses .

If I shot turkeys past 50 yards I wouldn't carry a 410z but I don't
And I didn't when I carried a 10ga or shot 12ga 3.5's,

Now we all know that a 20 ga will hammer a turkey past 60 yrds w tss.
My eyes aren't that good so I'm out on that

View attachment 229462
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Its called pattern density not misses 😂 , i guess every bird you shoot is in that same pose and doesnt move its head at all during the shot😂
 
knightrider said:
Its called pattern density not misses 😂 , i guess every bird you shoot is in that same pose and doesnt move its head at all during the shot😂
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It looks like he and his boys are more into killing birds than counting holes. From what has been posted, they had a he66 of a year so they must be doing something right.
 
Knightrider
Definitely a fair point.
There is no right or wrong in the gun selection.

There is just what will you except as you choose your gun.

Lots of ways to get it done!
Just giving a different view as something to think about while choosing a shotgun.

Again there is no wrong or right choice. They all will kill them dead .

And yes I only shoot them in that pose .
Doesn't bother me at all to let one walk off.
I let 3 different birds walk away this yr for different reasons .
 
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Remi said:
I have a light H&R 12 gauge single shot with a mod choke. I got it cheap and decided I'd shoot a turkey load from it one day. I fired one round, a 3" 2oz Winchester load of #5's.


I've shot 375 H&H's, I've shot mossberg 835's with 3.5" HV's, I've shot single shot 10 gauges, I've shot 458 Win Mags. I'd shoot any of them again, I would not shoot a turkey load from that H&R again.


Just weighed my H&R, it's 6lbs.
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Same here, fired a 2 oz 3" once in my H&R , my right arm just fell down to my side. Never again.
 
kevin mays said:
Knightrider
Definitely a fair point.
There is no right or wrong in the gun selection.

There is just what will you except as you choose your gun.

Lots of ways to get it done!
Just giving a different view as something to think about while choosing a shotgun.

Again there is no wrong or right choice. They all will kill them dead .

And yes I only shoot them in that pose .
Doesn't bother me at all to let one walk off.
I let 3 different birds walk away this yr for different reasons .
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The point is without pattern density in the 10 you wont have all those "hits" in the vitals. The misses as you called them are very important for your over all killing performance
 
knightrider said:
The point is without pattern density in the 10 you wont have all those "hits" in the vitals. The misses as you called them are very important for your over all killing performance
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Or, the alternative point is "how dead is dead"? I remember the decades of "expert" advice where if you had 12 #5 pellets in the head and neck of a turkey target you were "good to go". And, guess what, there were truckloads of turkeys killed with those setups.

A lot of the hole counting with the magic pixie shot is pure marketing strategy by shell company's and company's trying to sell overpriced chokes. And, IMO, it leads to a bunch of turkeys being missed up close from folks wanting a 100% 10" pattern. They may as well be shooting a rifled slug at the head.

There is zero doubt that TSS is the best thing out there if used with a little common sense. But, the truckloads of birds that have been killed with modest setups and lead shot were just as dead on the ride home. The birds haven't suddenly evolved with some type of feather armor that only the pixie shot can penetrate. If you have a setup that was killing birds 20 years ago, it will still kill them today.

The bottom line is that most folks would be much better off in killing turkeys at the ranges a real turkey hunter shoots them with a more open pattern and some of those "misses" that are concerning you.
 
scn said:
Or, the alternative point is "how dead is dead"? I remember the decades of "expert" advice where if you had 12 #5 pellets in the head and neck of a turkey target you were "good to go". And, guess what, there were truckloads of turkeys killed with those setups.

A lot of the hole counting with the magic pixie shot is pure marketing strategy by shell company's and company's trying to sell overpriced chokes. And, IMO, it leads to a bunch of turkeys being missed up close from folks wanting a 100% 10" pattern. They may as well be shooting a rifled slug at the head.

There is zero doubt that TSS is the best thing out there if used with a little common sense. But, the truckloads of birds that have been killed with modest setups and lead shot were just as dead on the ride home. The birds haven't suddenly evolved with some type of feather armor that only the pixie shot can penetrate. If you have a setup that was killing birds 20 years ago, it will still kill them today.

The bottom line is that most folks would be much better off in killing turkeys at the ranges a real turkey hunter shoots them with a more open pattern and some of those "misses" that are concerning you.
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Maybe the question we need to be asking ourselves is " How much easier do we want to make it to kill turkeys?"
 
scn said:
Or, the alternative point is "how dead is dead"? I remember the decades of "expert" advice where if you had 12 #5 pellets in the head and neck of a turkey target you were "good to go". And, guess what, there were truckloads of turkeys killed with those setups.

A lot of the hole counting with the magic pixie shot is pure marketing strategy by shell company's and company's trying to sell overpriced chokes. And, IMO, it leads to a bunch of turkeys being missed up close from folks wanting a 100% 10" pattern. They may as well be shooting a rifled slug at the head.

There is zero doubt that TSS is the best thing out there if used with a little common sense. But, the truckloads of birds that have been killed with modest setups and lead shot were just as dead on the ride home. The birds haven't suddenly evolved with some type of feather armor that only the pixie shot can penetrate. If you have a setup that was killing birds 20 years ago, it will still kill them today.

The bottom line is that most folks would be much better off in killing turkeys at the ranges a real turkey hunter shoots them with a more open pattern and some of those "misses" that are concerning you.
Click to expand...


Pattern density means more hits in the head and neck regardless of shot size or type. You seem to like to go on an on about how counting holes is stupid but if you don't have enough holes to count your pattern sucks and you don't get the magical 12 pellets in the head and neck. A full pattern in a circle, I actually prefer a 15" count means that if a bird moves at the shot, wind, brush, etc you have enough pellets in the pattern to pepper the birds head and ensure a clean kill. I'm not sure why that is a topic to rail against, but have at it. lol.
 
If pellets on a paper that will not make contact w a turkey give a hunter more confidence roll w it.
Again I'm not selling right or wrong
Was just recommending a lightweight proven alternative.

If you want to lob hangernades
Have fun
It's a great sport and we can each make it as complicated or simple as we want
 
Remi said:
Pattern density means more hits in the head and neck regardless of shot size or type. You seem to like to go on an on about how counting holes is stupid but if you don't have enough holes to count your pattern sucks and you don't get the magical 12 pellets in the head and neck. A full pattern in a circle, I actually prefer a 15" count means that if a bird moves at the shot, wind, brush, etc you have enough pellets in the pattern to pepper the birds head and ensure a clean kill. I'm not sure why that is a topic to rail against, but have at it. lol.
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No doubt.

But, at a certain point it becomes overkill. Most folks would kill more turkeys with a more open pattern.

I am not a hole counter and never will be. I prefer to concern myself with how to get a bird to thirty yards and make him flop there. I care zero about sniping gobblers at 60-70 yds.
 
I agree, I'm not sure what pattern density has to do with sniping turkeys at 70yds? I read that a lot but I'm not sure the correlation to guys wanting pattern density.

People act like TSS and hot patterns are the reasons people have taken long shots at turkeys. I know guys in the 90's that shot lead 4's because, "one pellet in the head is all I need" and they were shooting at birds at 60-80yds.

Stupid people have been taking stupid shots at turkeys since turkey hunting started.

Same with archery

Same with deer/elk/moose
 
I'm not willing to sacrifice my current pattern density (250/250) for weight. But I'd like to shave a couple inches off overall length as well as maybe a half lb to full lb off weight. The reason I'm thinking I will have to go to a 12g is to maintain pattern efficiency out of a shorter barrel. If shorter barrel length isn't going to negatively affect my pattern, I'll probably look for a lightweight single shot 20g. But I don't want to waste $100 worth of shells if an 18.5in bbl 20g isnt going to give me my current pattern density.

And as said earlier... my current pattern density just does not result in any cripples. PLUS, it gives me the wiggle room to ethically kill one every single time at 45y that I misjudged was at 40.
 
scn said:
Or, the alternative point is "how dead is dead"? I remember the decades of "expert" advice where if you had 12 #5 pellets in the head and neck of a turkey target you were "good to go". And, guess what, there were truckloads of turkeys killed with those setups.

A lot of the hole counting with the magic pixie shot is pure marketing strategy by shell company's and company's trying to sell overpriced chokes. And, IMO, it leads to a bunch of turkeys being missed up close from folks wanting a 100% 10" pattern. They may as well be shooting a rifled slug at the head.

There is zero doubt that TSS is the best thing out there if used with a little common sense. But, the truckloads of birds that have been killed with modest setups and lead shot were just as dead on the ride home. The birds haven't suddenly evolved with some type of feather armor that only the pixie shot can penetrate. If you have a setup that was killing birds 20 years ago, it will still kill them today.

The bottom line is that most folks would be much better off in killing turkeys at the ranges a real turkey hunter shoots them with a more open pattern and some of those "misses" that are concerning you.
Click to expand...
I completely agree, just making a point about pattern density when shooting sub gauges that is all, and misses arent concerning me because i dont
 
kevin mays said:
Recoil and sound both
Won't be that bad when shooting a turkey

But sighting it in will be like having a come to Jesus meeting!

Wounding a bird is the worst . Ive wounded 2 . Missed 5-6. All w 12 ga .

Never wounded or missed w a 20 or a 410

Would like to shoot one w a 28 . But haven't

I did have a group of hunters I guided this yr kill 120 ducks in 2 days shooting 28ga's w boss shells

My son set up a 28ga at the end of season but was too busy wackin them w a 410.
Between us and friends I know of 35 birds getting shot w 410's . Zero wounded

TSS has changed the wounded game.

The guy who got it started Blake rice comes on guided hunts w me . and him and my son shoot tss from a 20 ga .

It's unreal. I can't afford to duck hunt w it. But it's unreal . They shoot ducks leaving the hole in the butt at 50 yards and they don't even quiver . Hit the water like a sock

But you hit the nail on the head when you said the key word
"Confidence " . Can't buy that
And I have ALOT of it w my 410
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I love my .410. I will say that I have let a bird or two walk because it was a little thick between me and them and I was worried about shoot through.

This past season, my .410 was adopted by my wife and daughter. I went with a 20 gauge.
 
kevin mays said:
I couldn't imagine shooting a turkey load from a 15 in barrel in a 12 ga.
But I use to carry a ten guage in the 80's

I remember when we wanted a 100 pellet shot count when we patterned a gun .

Technology is awesome . I get way better than that from a 410 now. And they are not flopping when I walk up to them . They r dead ! Knocked off their feet flipped over on their back .

Here is a 20 ga video.
Patterning any gun with the right choke . Shooting the load the gun performs well with .
Dead Is dead.

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Well there's a real shocker, plastic turkeys and a tent. Is that a requirement of shooting turkeys with a 410 at 50 yards?
 
typing is hard sometimes, I guess I should correct the title!

still looking, would have bought the single shot at academy if my local one had it in stock. no eta on when they will get more. There is one 1.5h away at another store, may pick it up and try.
 

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